Ever see a head repaired like this??
11-15-2007, 01:07 PM
#62
Out of anyone in this thread you are making yourself sound the most uneducated. Insulting a persons knowledge, business, and then calling them a liar is very childish. I would suggest you re-read the thread, get your facts straight, then ask for forgiveness.
I'm siding with GRB on this one, if he has been lying then it will come out short enough. He sounds very educated on the subject, and being in business you must know where you stand with the law or you're very vulnerable. I suppose we'll just see how it ends up.
I'm siding with GRB on this one, if he has been lying then it will come out short enough. He sounds very educated on the subject, and being in business you must know where you stand with the law or you're very vulnerable. I suppose we'll just see how it ends up.
I have read the thread and reread it. The fact is his storys seem to be (more in a little bit) bla bla bla, the supposed screwing over has already taken place so lets here the whole story not piece by piece. Or is it being made up as he goes along? Where are the posted pdf files and the public info he was going to post on his judgement on LMA? It doesnt appear to me that LMA even comes on this site, so he probably doesnt have his business reputation from the internet.Probably doesnt rely on it either.Prior to now it didnt even state what car it was let alone all the parts and without a reciept whos fault could this be? It looks like even if hes right he's at fault too. His ignorance doesnt make them wrong and him right. There is definetly two sides of every story and we cant even hear one of them so what is the point? Seriously.So you can side however you want . Appologize? for what? He comes on here with 3% of one side of a story that all we do get to see, is a bunch of foolish mistakes by someone acting to be an attorney. I watched this thread long enough before posting, waiting for info that never comes.
11-15-2007, 03:56 PM
#63
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Keep it civil RF! Either you are a big fan of LWA or you don't know who they are at all. Also, my shops did not do what LWA does.
Let me explain a little something to you. Lamar Walden in the '70s walked on water in the SE. Nobody could touch him. When Lamar went somewhere to race his competition went elsewhere. He set records in every class he entered. He once lowered the C-gas by a full second. That's why GM gave him and one other GM racer a '69 ZL1, #51 (my ZL1 is #51...see a connection yet??). Don't believe all this? Ask him!
Let me add; To my knowledge Lamar Walden has always had an impeccable reputation.
Lamar lived next door to my best friend in HS. If it were not for that I would never have gotten the chance to meet Lamar on a personal basis. Also, Lamar at that time had a full time job and worked on race cars in his spare time. The fact that he worked on several cars for me was at time considered an honor. Lamar didn't have a public shop and didn't work on very many cars.
That's how LWA was able to stall me for so long on my ZL1. I did not rush them, and never would rush an engine builder, but I did push LWA along after about a year into the process. And just how would you MAKE a shop finish your car after you had the confidence in them to pay in advance? At gun point? Bring in an atty...like that wouldn't cause even more problems? If a builder stalls you month after month you don't have much choice other than to urge him along.
Let me explain a little something to you. Lamar Walden in the '70s walked on water in the SE. Nobody could touch him. When Lamar went somewhere to race his competition went elsewhere. He set records in every class he entered. He once lowered the C-gas by a full second. That's why GM gave him and one other GM racer a '69 ZL1, #51 (my ZL1 is #51...see a connection yet??). Don't believe all this? Ask him!
Let me add; To my knowledge Lamar Walden has always had an impeccable reputation.
Lamar lived next door to my best friend in HS. If it were not for that I would never have gotten the chance to meet Lamar on a personal basis. Also, Lamar at that time had a full time job and worked on race cars in his spare time. The fact that he worked on several cars for me was at time considered an honor. Lamar didn't have a public shop and didn't work on very many cars.
That's how LWA was able to stall me for so long on my ZL1. I did not rush them, and never would rush an engine builder, but I did push LWA along after about a year into the process. And just how would you MAKE a shop finish your car after you had the confidence in them to pay in advance? At gun point? Bring in an atty...like that wouldn't cause even more problems? If a builder stalls you month after month you don't have much choice other than to urge him along.
11-15-2007, 04:32 PM
#64
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what a bunch of whiners
can you just let this guy tell us the situation/resolution without all the crybaby ****?
i would like to see this thread through...
without it getting locked because a bunch of jackasses just want to argue about something
can you just let this guy tell us the situation/resolution without all the crybaby ****?
i would like to see this thread through...
without it getting locked because a bunch of jackasses just want to argue about something
11-15-2007, 04:57 PM
#65
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8whatever - You've been here since Feb. 06. Many people on this board and several others have been following the highs and lows of this build up from day one. I took an awful lot of heat from guys that thought I should have let GMMG do all the work. To them I was committing a sin!! (They were right!)
Invoice? Let me repeat....would you call the police, pull a gun? How are you going to get a receipt from somebody who stalls you for months on end and then finally refuses to produce an invoice? Tell me how you make someone do that and I will get it done tomorrow! You see, the fact of THIS matter is, A JUDGE WILL HAVE TO FORCE LAMAR WALDEN TO PRODUCE AN INVOICE!! Read again, slowly, maybe it will finally sink in.
The object of this thread is to discuss shops who have done poor work so other LS1tech fans can make sure they are making a good decision. I am sharing details in hopes that it may save some of you the same grief. I made the mistake of trusting a relatively small but very old shop too much because of a personal relationship. Learn from my mistake. There are two other shops in ATL that have recently closed or settled lawsuits. How is anybody going to know who these guys are without the Internet. (I'll let someone else post the facts on these cases.)
You guys should thank Tony and LS1tech for allowing open discussions like this. Remember, you libel somebody and you are going to pay. And keep it civil.
Oh, and for shops that have never intentionally screwed someone or failed to make good on a promise....I can name a couple!
Invoice? Let me repeat....would you call the police, pull a gun? How are you going to get a receipt from somebody who stalls you for months on end and then finally refuses to produce an invoice? Tell me how you make someone do that and I will get it done tomorrow! You see, the fact of THIS matter is, A JUDGE WILL HAVE TO FORCE LAMAR WALDEN TO PRODUCE AN INVOICE!! Read again, slowly, maybe it will finally sink in.
The object of this thread is to discuss shops who have done poor work so other LS1tech fans can make sure they are making a good decision. I am sharing details in hopes that it may save some of you the same grief. I made the mistake of trusting a relatively small but very old shop too much because of a personal relationship. Learn from my mistake. There are two other shops in ATL that have recently closed or settled lawsuits. How is anybody going to know who these guys are without the Internet. (I'll let someone else post the facts on these cases.)
You guys should thank Tony and LS1tech for allowing open discussions like this. Remember, you libel somebody and you are going to pay. And keep it civil.
Oh, and for shops that have never intentionally screwed someone or failed to make good on a promise....I can name a couple!
11-15-2007, 05:26 PM
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11-16-2007, 06:57 AM
#70
Sucks to see something like this happen, especially when you know and trust the person. As for the whole getting an invoice issue, if you know the person well, and they are considered a friend or a close acquaintence with a strong rep, then you will usually trust them not to dick you over. Hopefully the situation is corrected and both parties can part ways. Good luck and keep us posted.
11-16-2007, 09:41 AM
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Creman, here's what has happened. In Oct. last year (06) I took the 427 ZL1 to Mike Carnahan (who, as most of you know, built the overwhelming majority of GMMG cars) to get it tuned so it would run and then sell it. I had had enough and was prepared to just eat my losses.
Mike and Ron Mowen have set up Vengeance Racing about 5 minutes from my new house. So I went to them to get the work done to make the car sellable. I told them the car put down 620 or so (Mike has the graph that LWA gave me when I left their shop for the final time) RWHP. Mike later called me to tell me that the car actually put down 440 or so RWHP (this on a brand new dyno) and the tune was way out of whack. All this indicated that I was given a bogus dyno read out with the hopes that I would just go away. Of course our potential buyer walked!
This is when the SHTF with LWA. The details of what happened after this are not specified in the complaint but will come out at trial. So, in as much as, these details are not chronicled in the legal document I can't fully discuss them without first discussing it with my atty. and running it by Tony.
Mike and Ron Mowen have set up Vengeance Racing about 5 minutes from my new house. So I went to them to get the work done to make the car sellable. I told them the car put down 620 or so (Mike has the graph that LWA gave me when I left their shop for the final time) RWHP. Mike later called me to tell me that the car actually put down 440 or so RWHP (this on a brand new dyno) and the tune was way out of whack. All this indicated that I was given a bogus dyno read out with the hopes that I would just go away. Of course our potential buyer walked!
This is when the SHTF with LWA. The details of what happened after this are not specified in the complaint but will come out at trial. So, in as much as, these details are not chronicled in the legal document I can't fully discuss them without first discussing it with my atty. and running it by Tony.
11-16-2007, 09:40 PM
#73
Some of you guys really show your maturity level in this thread.... Ive known Ray (AKA GRB) for about 6 years now and I know 90% of this story as I have followed his car/build VERY closely....Im not going to make any comments on the situation, but I would urge some of you to take a step back and quit being such keyboard warriors....
Two things I would like to point out... This story isnt one sided... If you think LWA doesnt know about this post yet you have fallen off your rocker... They could EASILY sign up and post a reply, but as they have done with the demand letters etc for the past year, they refuse to do anything..
Hunter, Ray sent the cylinder heads to TrickFlow Head quarters.. AKA Total Engine Airflow... Both of which are owned by Summit Racing.. I think they know a lil about even C5R stuff
Any man who is willing to pay 78k for a COLLECTORS car with the CONNECTION to LWA Im SURE would not "approve" someone to epoxy the damn head....
Rant off.... Ray, best of luck!! Im sure this will turn out exactly like you want/deserve to.
Two things I would like to point out... This story isnt one sided... If you think LWA doesnt know about this post yet you have fallen off your rocker... They could EASILY sign up and post a reply, but as they have done with the demand letters etc for the past year, they refuse to do anything..
Hunter, Ray sent the cylinder heads to TrickFlow Head quarters.. AKA Total Engine Airflow... Both of which are owned by Summit Racing.. I think they know a lil about even C5R stuff
Any man who is willing to pay 78k for a COLLECTORS car with the CONNECTION to LWA Im SURE would not "approve" someone to epoxy the damn head....
Rant off.... Ray, best of luck!! Im sure this will turn out exactly like you want/deserve to.
11-17-2007, 07:11 AM
#74
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Thanks Ron. But I really don't blame these guys for being skeptical. Especially the ones that know LWA and their reputation. I lived through the whole experience I still have trouble believing it happened to me.
I hope a few guys will learn from my mistakes and maybe save themselves some cash and disappointment. If that happens the criticism will be worthwhile. camaro owners work hard for their money and deserve to treated fairly.
I hope a few guys will learn from my mistakes and maybe save themselves some cash and disappointment. If that happens the criticism will be worthwhile. camaro owners work hard for their money and deserve to treated fairly.
11-17-2007, 10:02 AM
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Plenty of pics. I'm using my wife's computer now so I can't post pics just yet. However, Mike Carnahan has plenty of pictures of the car and some other interesting aspects of my ordeal. I'll get him or Ron to post their's next week.
BTW - I have seen a guy on TV in the last week that has a number of suits filed against him right now. Just because some automotive show let's a builder have a segment doesn't mean you can trust them. It makes him look good but you've still got to do your homework!!
BTW - I have seen a guy on TV in the last week that has a number of suits filed against him right now. Just because some automotive show let's a builder have a segment doesn't mean you can trust them. It makes him look good but you've still got to do your homework!!
11-17-2007, 02:04 PM
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I prefer to do the sledge hammer test over the drop test myself. Basically, you take a BIG sledge hammer, and smack each end of the head. If it doesn't crack, it is a good head... I found out that the drop test was inconsistent due to the head not being completely balanced, and it usually ended up breaking off a corner.
SLEDGE HAMMER TEST > DROP TEST
SLEDGE HAMMER TEST > DROP TEST
11-17-2007, 02:24 PM
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My boys have had a lot of experience with the drop test Mamba. If you practice carelessly enough you learn to drop test almost any car part. In fact the more expensive the part seemingly the more accurate the experienced dropper becomes. I understand LWA is working on the drop kick test for lighter parts. 
