wssix99

iTrader: (5)

No, most likely it was a cost issue. Fluid-to-fluid coolers are more efficient (and less bulky/expensive) compared to a air-to-fluid cooler. The PS fluid gets warmer than the radiator outlet, so it is/was indeed a cooler.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

I understand that a fluid to air cooler is more expensive, but I just don't think that running PS fluid through 200+ degrees is going to really cool it, unless you're road racing it might make a dent.

But do you really think it would be cooling the PS fluid in normal day to day driving, as if we took the PS fluid temperature of a TA on the road turning normally WITH the cooler and one WITHOUT one, would it really be different?

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

The temperature at the coolant sensor is 200+ degrees, so the temperature flowing out of the radiator (at the stock cooler) is somewhat less. I recall that when I measured the stock PS cooler temperatures, I saw between 170-180 degrees.

In itself, 180 degree PS fluid is not a problem. The article linked in the first post notes that the pump starts getting damaged at 275 degrees. So, as long as the cooler is keeping things away from that level, its protecting the pump - its main job.

However; it seems that as PS fluid ages and collects contaminants, its more sensitive to temperature and boil-overs. Taking the temperature further down with better cooling seems to help this secondary problem.


Yea, GM tried this. At the start of the 4th gen, some V8 cars didn't come with coolers. By the time they got to the end of 99, they had to put coolers in all the V8's.

You could drive a daily driver without a cooler - you'll just get more boil-overs from the reservoir, bathing your alternator in goo. In my situation, I'd rather have the cooling vs. doing complete PS fluid flushes more frequently.

Q3131A

Did you have to splice your line like JB?

Q3131A

If anyone wants the Derale 13224, Amazon has it for $31.95 with free shipping. It was $45 and $48 from Jegs and Summit to me.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Hey, if you get a chance. Can you take temp readings at the outflow port (metal) with a laser gauge after you have been doing heavy city driving and the engine temps are at least up to operating temp.

Curious to see what those coolers are doing for temps.

.

Q3131A

Sure, but I don't have one of those gauges. I also just ordered the cooler last night so I'm not ready yet.

So your saying hit the metal barb that I'm hooking the out flow line to? Are you thinking these aren't doing as good a job as your set up?

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Here is mine, I cut a hole under the fan in the shroud and mounted it.

2000 WS6 Formula

I also got the Derale 13224 Frame Rail Transmission Cooler after seeing your post, it is a nice clean set up. $31.95 delivered:
http://www.amazon.com/Derale-13224-F.../dp/B001QITRE0

Normal driving power steering temperature was 180* (I have a 180* thermostat), it is now 125* on a mid 70's day.

The Derale 13224 comes with 1/2" inlet/outlet hose connections and a 11/32" hose that didn't fit. So your going to need to get 3/8" & 1/2" hose's and adapters to join them together!

Couplings - "Reducers" (barbed x barbed)
coupling reducer
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/barb.html



Item Description Price & Quantity

1/2" barb x 3/8" barb $4.15 2ea.



3/8 inch ID Hose
http://www.amazon.com/Derale-13016-T...sim_sbs_auto_5

1/2 inch ID Hose
http://www.amazon.com/Derale-15701-T...3134961&sr=1-3

bahrain z28

what are the advantages of it ??

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

If you auto cross or road race the power steering will over heat, drastically shortening the life of your power steering rack and pump.

Eman88

iTrader: (1)

My power steering pump has been whining, so I wanted to flush the fluid, and then get a replacement pump if the whining continues.

I've decided I might as well also ditch the stock power steering cooler and replace it with the Derale 13224 cooler.
1) Should I flush the fluid before installing the cooler, or install the cooler first? I'll have to drain the fluid to install the cooler, so I should flush the fluid afterwards, right?
(2) Where should i drain the fluid from?

(3) Will the flushing process be different than the process outlined in this thread earlier, since there will be air in the lines? I imagine I will still just pour fluid in the reservoir, while draining the old fluid from the line coming off the new PS cooler?

(4) Finally, what power steering fluid should I use? I don't want to skimp on a few bucks, just to put in significantly worse fluid.

I will be getting the following:

Derale 13224 cooler (should come with adequate hose, correct?)
4 quarts power steering fluid
additional 3/8" tubing to help drain fluid(to attach to reservoir and hold in air to prevent the reservoir draining)
Upper radiator hose- http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...CGRPBELTAMS___

I will have to drain coolant to replace the upper radiator hose also, right? I'll search on how to do that now. If i want to get the car running before I change this hose, I'll just plug the two PS lines going into the cooler, or loop a line from the inlet to the outlet. Let me know if there is something wrong with this approach.


I numbered my questions so they would be easier to answer hopefully. Thank you all in advance for your help. I've read this whole thread and have a good grasp on what I have to do, I just have a few questions about the details.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

New fluid will help, but it doesn't work miracles. Because its such a PITA/mess to work on this system and deal with the fluid, etc, I'd replace the pump right away if the car is going to be around a while. (BTW - For the same reasoning, I'd also go with a new pump or have a quality shop rebuild the existing unit vs. get a reman.

I'd flush afterwards. Air will be introduced and fluid will be lost during the cooler install and I'd think you'd have less waste doing it after.

Go back in time in this thread and you'll see a post by LS6427 on this.

No.

Correct. A friend/helper really pays off here. You don't want to run the pump dry and it will drain quickly!

At risk of someone flaming on this one, I'll say it... Power steering fluid is power steering fluid. Just make sure you are using PS fluid and not transmission fluid, etc. Engineering and standards organizations set parameters for these fluids. As long as they meet the spec, they are perfectly adequate for normal driving. If someone tries to sell you differently (for normal driving) there's a 95% chance they are selling you "snake oil."

Not sure, maybe a Derale owner can chime in. My Perma-Cool came with adequate (I recall.) 5/16" hose.

If you have some leftover hose from your rack return hose, you can use that. (I recall that I had to cut mine down.) I'd refer you to a parts professional on the exact part number you need for the upper radiator hose.

Yes, and sounds good. You'll need to get the coolant level in the radiator to be just below the hose you are going to replace. The rest can stay in there.

Eman88

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for answering all my questions in detail, I appreciate it. I was planning on getting my pump rebuilt by PSC. I read in a few other threads that it was ~100bucks and better than getting a potentially crappy reman pump. I was planning on flushing the fluid with the pump before getting it rebuilt, so I didn't run old fluid through the rebuilt pump. If you guys think it doesn't really matter if I use the new pump to flush the fluid, then it would probably be easier to take the pump out and send it in to be rebuilt while I have the PS system drained and am installing the PS cooler.

_JB_

iTrader: (33)

A few weeks ago I got stuck in rush hour traffic for two hours with speeds less than 5MPH. When I got home I checked the power steering to see how the cooler held up. Well there was a little bit of fluid on the top of the reservoir; it was almost almost 90* that day. That's the only time I've seen any fluid on the reservoir since doing the cooler.

_JB_

iTrader: (33)

Mine came with about two feet of hose, so it was enough for the job. I only needed the coupler since the hose from the steering rack was too short.

Eman88

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I'll order the derale cooler now and a gallon of power steering fluid. If my stock line is too short, I'll go and get a coupler at the store. I still have my old car to drive until I get everything worked out with the camaro.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions when I get everything here and am installing it...

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Hit the metal port where the fluid leaves the aftermarket cooler.......thats about the temp the fluid will be when it goes back into the reservoir, then through the pump.

Also, get a reading right at the rack where it enters the rack....metal only.

You can also get a reading on the metal high pressure line that leaves the pump...the hottest it will be.

I'm certain, with the ram air hitting my cooler, it runs MUCH cooler than any other set-up. How could it not........

But we'll see soon as people get some readings. Mine were in the 120's*F IIRC.....but I can always touch my cooler with my hand, its just warm, never hot.

.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

2-3 qt.s should be sufficient. A gallon is definitely too much.


Its entirely possible to have a rail cooler that outperforms a cooler with air blowing over it. Design of the fins, number of fins, fin surface area, etc. all impact how these things perform. The rail coolers still have air moving over them - they just use natural convection to provide that movement vs. the aerodynamic air from the car.

Likewise, the ambient temperature, how a car is driven, etc. will impact the required cooling capacity. So, comparing our car's to each other wouldn't give a definitive answer, either. One would need to test two different types on the same car. We could also calculate the efficiency, but that's not a very fun thing to do... Is there a thermodynamic engineer in the house?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Right....but there's no way a cooler will outperform another cooler that has continuous ram air hitting it....thats not even a conversation worth starting. Thats why radiators and condensors are hti by ram air continuously and you never see people hiding them 100% out of the ram air stream.......they would cease to work.

Only 2 people have reported how their aftermarket coolers were working....both were burning hot to the touch. Mine is only warm to the touch.......it must be from the ram air. My cooler is not the most efficient type either. LIke I said, it was in the 120*F range, thats very cool. Especially compared to the factory pile of crap.....which will give you 3rd degree burns if you touch it.

I'd like to see some temps from some of the coolers that are hidden out of the ram air stream.......to compare the difference in temps.

.