wssix99

iTrader: (5)

That's not true. A stationary cooler can very well be designed to provide better cooling than a model with air moving over it. There are lots of variables that engineers can work with to change the cooling properties: ambient conditions, materials, fin size, fin spacing, fin shape, tubing length, etc. Air movement is one of those variables. Air movement is cheap to "buy" but expensive on fuel/energy consumption.

I agree that its not worth starting a long conversation. There's a lot of calculus involved in calculating these efficiencies. I don't do that any more.

tta656

iTrader: (5)

I havent read this whole thread so maybe it was covered.....I have a 1989 TTA with a front mount intercoller which is very hard to do.....i was running my car without that front air deflector and my coolant temps were 220 while driving at 70mph. I then added the air deflector underneath and my coolant temps dropped from 220 to 160 at highway speeds with NO fans on....those of you that want the most out of that power steering mod should mount that coil above the air deflector by the radiator...hth.. Dennis

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Some of these guys are on crack, to COOL the fluid AIRFLOW is required over the cooler.

fspeedster

iTrader: (6)

My cooler is behind the deflector with no cut out and it never get's hot enough to burn my hand. Anything over two coils and 24" is way overkill. Unless you live in the desert.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Or roadrace LOL

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

True story! Mine's still holding up great. All I have is a 2 row.

Eman88

iTrader: (1)

I'm having some issues with the p/s pump pulley removal tool. I got this one from autozone. The shaft on the pulley removal tool hits the upper radiator hose, did you guys have to remove the upper radiator hose to use this tool, or am I missing something here...

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...fier=2075_0_0_

Monsoon

I could be wrong but I believe when I replaced my pump before I had removed it before removing the pulley. I think I transferred the pulley from the old to the new on the bench. Am I wrong?

Also, if anyone can tell me, I'm looking to flush my p/s lines and am very worried about letting it run dry if the car is running. Would it work to remove the serpentine belt and turn the pulley by hand to flush???

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Yes, most of us would have the hose off. You have to change it in order to get rid of the OEM cooler.

99monguse

My SS has about 30k on it and I notice when I pull into a parking spot or into a driveway, I can feel some excess drag on the steering wheel. I believe my SS has the factory cooler. I am considering adding one of these coolers. Has anyone had steering rack issues?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure NASA could design something like that.....but it will never, ever be something the comparatively LOW LOW LOW tech auto industry will come up with. Thats why every radiator in the auto industry either has a fan attached to create artificial ram air flow or its in real direct ram air flow.
The only type of radiator that sometimes isn't in direct air flow are those used in Air-to-water intercoolers, but then those are usually set up with a fan for air flow.

.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Just have a friend in the car to turn the engine off if you (the guy pouring the new fluid in) see's its about to run dry. With the engine idling, its not going to run dry, it doesn't flow that fast. But if it does get close, just have him turn the engine off, top it off, and restart the engine and begin pouring again as it flushes through. No worries. And its not like a brake booster, it can run dry and it can't hurt it or cause you to have to bleed it on a bench....it'll just suck a little air in, which will blow right out as you continue to flush.

.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Your logic would stand up if the fans ran all the time, but they don't. Given favorable ambient conditions (outside temperature, air pressure, etc.) a radiator can cool a car with out moving and without the fans running.

If you took a radiator off of a construction large piece of mining machinery and put it in a car, you wouldn't need a fan in any situation. However, that would come with a weight penalty. The fans allow engineers to make relatively "small" radiators work in harsh conditions. The running fans are inefficient, likewise ramming air through the radiators is inefficient - but its not as bad as having to haul around a giant, heavy radiator.

The cooling needs for a power steering system are small compared to an entire engine or air conditioner. Because of that, one can get by with a properly sized passive cooler.

Monsoon

OK, so I went ahead and completed this upgrade this past weekend. I replaced the power steering pump (which was whining...a lot), added the Derale rail-mount cooler and flushed/bled the system. The review on Amazon for this part is from me.

The process was pretty easy (if messy). My fluid ran out rather dirty despite previously siphoning and refilling the reservoir a couple of times. Now my power steering is silent...finally! I'm very happy I found this thread and I'm certain the new pump I installed will live a longer life due to the cooler fluid.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Favorable ambient conditions.........

So now we're talking about cars sitting in -10*F cold weather only. A car engine would still overheat if the fans did not work or you removed the air dam.

We're talking about our cars.....not other multi-million $$$ machinery with gigantic radiators. Or a NASA designed radiator. I fly jets for a living, we have a radiator the size of a school text book that cools 600*C engine bleed air so we can have freezing COLD A/C inside the plane that first has to flow 50 feet up to the cockpit and cabin. It only passes through that 2" thick radiator and its cool, but at 43,000 ft. we have -55* air blasting through it the whole time. Down in the lower atmosphere we have to turn the A/C system on because the RAM air at lower altitudes cannot cool that 600*C hot bleed air off the engines.

A liquid cooled car engine will NEVER ever be without a fan. It will overheat.

We actually don't even need any cooler for our PS fluid and they'll work just fine and last a long time.

I don't like to just get by.....I prefer more airflow over my PS fluid cooler. It definitely will cool my PS fluid better than any type of aftermarket cooler that does not have any airflow. There is no question about that. My PS pump sees cooler temps that anyones pump without ram air flowing over their cooler. I've proved that with mid 120*F temps. No way anyone will get temps that low in city driving on a hot day without that ram air cut out in the air dam or with a cooler that doesn't sit in a place without any type of airflow. I only know of one person that has a cooler where mine is, same exact cooler........his cooler can never be touched for more than a full second, it will fry the skin on his hand.

Thats all I said earlier.........

1) PS cooler with airflow = cooler temps, longer life of the pump

2) Coolers without air flow = hotter temps, harder life for the pump

2 facts.

.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Sorry - looking back at my comments, they are not as clear as they should have been. When I spoke about stationary coolers and not "needing" air flowing over them, I should have referred to externally powered air flow. Even the rail coolers have air flowing over them - all the time. They just use convection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convection) to move that air rather than ram air or a fan. The rail coolers have fins designed for this purpose and the transmission coolers do not.


So, I would have been more precise in my comments if I said that fast moving air is not always needed for cooling.

1) All air to fluid coolers have air flowing over them.

2) Air to fluid coolers without air flowing over them don't exist.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Is a cutout really needed for a rail cooler?

Both the Transmission cooler mounted in the radiator air flow and Rail cooler mounted behind the dam (with no cutout) do the job. As stated in the GM High Tech Performance article in the original post, we just need to stay away from the 275 degree limit where the PS Pump seals deteriorate. We've shown that both options achieve this. The engineers in the article were happy with cooled temps of 160 degrees and we've hit that mark with both options.


I picked the rail cooler as a conservative choice. It was easier for me to install and should be more durable for me since its well protected from road debris and the occasional dead animal that lodges in my radiator. (I've had one dead "thing" in the past and I'm sure there will be more in the future!)


IMO - I'd rather leave good enough alone. Providing more air flow to a rail cooler may (or it may not) help it work more efficiently, but why do it if its not necessary? Cutting a hole in the air dam immediately removes the protection that the rail option affords. Likewise, upsetting the airflow over that dam can lead to unintended consequences. The dam is actually a spoiler that helps keep the car on the ground. Any reduction in the spoiler area will lead to increased lift on the front of the car.

If someone can't let go of the concept that a properly sized convective cooler can operate as efficiently as a forced air cooler, (even though our temperatures prove they are in the ball park of each other) then I'd rather see someone go with a transmission cooler mounted to the radiator vs. cutting a hole in the spoiler.



Another thing to remember is that cooler is not always better. The fluids in our cars are optimized at certain temperatures. If fluids get too cold, they will become less viscous, causing their pumps to work harder - leading to increased wear. There is a temperature "sweet spot" on the viscosity curve where the fluid will be cool enough to protect the pump, but viscous enough to not overwork the pump. I have yet to see any information on this and would be interested to see some information on this if anyone has access to it. Maybe 160 degrees isn't enough? Maybe its too much?

joecar

Mounting the standoff rail cooler behind the plastic deflector/dam still gets air to flow thru it...

as air passes under the dam, low pressure is created immediately behind the dam, if the cooler is on standoffs (like the Derale) then the low pressure sucks air thru it.

If car is stationary, then there is no airflow (in either case), except maybe when coolant fans run then the air blowing by may possibly suck some air up thru the cooler that is standoff mounted behind the dam.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

When the car is stationary, air is still moving over the fins due to convection. Its the same mechanism as air cooled engines (like on an old VW or a motorcycle) use cool themselves while at idle. (There's enough cooling from convection that these engines don't overheat at idle and only need extra air moving over them at higher RPMs.)

The air heats up between the fins, the hot air rises, and then cooler air from below takes its place and then heats up.

joecar

Yes, +1 convection.

( I was comparing the behind-dam vs slotted-dam in the case of car stopped )