MOTORCITYMADMAN

I was going to Walmart yesterday to pick up a oil filter. They were closed. I think you recommended a Walmart brand filter in the past. I then went to Meijer and picked up a Purolator PureOne. It was $5.00 US and says it is Top Ranked in SAE tests. It claims to have an "Exclusive MICRONIC Filtration."It has a silicone Anti-Drainback Valve and PTFE treated sealing gasket. And finally it claims 98% MULTI-PASS EFFFICIENCY WHILE CLAIMING LEADING BRANDS RATE 86% AND 75%.

I also change oil every 3k miles with $0.99/QT stuff and avoid FRAM filters.

What do you think?

Patman

I've always believed these filters to be far too restrictive to oil flow for a high performance application, and this initial phase of this oil filter test seems to support my belief:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=6;t=000513


I still like the K&Ns for high performance applications. Even though the Fram showed good flow in this testing, I wonder if this filter is even filtering at all, perhaps oil is bypassing it totally. I'm currently running a Carquest Premium on my car (which is identical to Wix and NAPA Gold) but may switch it back to K&N. I'm very eager to see Bob's next round of tests, which will use hot oil this time, plus I believe he's going to re run the cold oil tests too. He's also going to run some tests on used filters too.

Don't get caught up in all the hype that oil filters need to filter down to 10 microns to prolong engine life. Oil flow is much more important with a hard driven car.

MOTORCITYMADMAN

Thanks Patman!

Reading your post made me realize I forgot to post the aplication. 1990 Toyota Corolla 4AFE engine A3 109,000 miles. Engine is tight and only seems to lose .5 QT/3k miles mostly due to a small leak at the pan gasket(I hope not a front main seal) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Is NAPA Gold the "Premium Filter"? Are all Napa filters of high enough quality to use for my application?

Thanks

Patman

NAPA Gold is the top line Wix filter, NAPA also sells other filters including NAPA Silver, but these don't use the T3 glass enhanced media, so they aren't as good. Might as well spend the extra buck or two for the better ones.

robertbartsch

Are Fram filters the orange ones with the black custy tip?

I use these frequently. Real garbage, hey?

minivette

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by robertbartsch:
<strong> Are Fram filters the orange ones with the black custy tip?

I use these frequently. Real garbage, hey? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All the info I have seen points to the fact that Fram filters are crap as far as filtering goes.

robertbartsch

I looked at the test, very interesting. I'm not sure what it tells us - except the pressure drop to be expected from various commercially available filters...


...by the way, these are not Gen III filter applications....my filters are half that size of those used in the test...so my pressure drop should be less, right?

...getting back to my point, the pressure drop really does not tell me anything except one filter is less restrictive than the another ....

...I always thought that filter performace was based on a filters' ability to trap harmful materials that have the potential to accelerate engine wear...

.....accordingly, this test did not test units for their filtering ability....

...as you know, for those engines that run sythetic oil, the pressure needs are not as great as those needed for DINO brand oils assumeing identicle engines...

Patman

True, these filters do not test for filtering efficiency, but the oil analysis interpreter I use, who has 20+ years in the field, says he honestly does not believe the lower micron oil filters are going to extend your engine life. He believes in oil flow over finer filtration, as his theory is that with a good air filter and a great oil, you will not have as many harmful particles in the oil anyways. The smallest of particles will simply float around in the oil and not harm the bearings, while the largest harmful stuff will be trapped by the filtering media. A 20-25 micron filter is all that is needed.

robertbartsch

...OK, if this is true than I trust HIS opinion, however, oil pressure is not a measure of oil flow...

...are you implying that oil pressure is a surrogate for oil flow?

Please x-plain....

If a FRAM is a 20 micron filter and it flows great than I can interprete from what you say that FRAM is a great filter since it flows more than others and it filters at the 20 micron level...this is all you need according to your expert, right?

However, I thought you said, FRAM is a ratty filter. Which is it,please?

robertbartsch

Patman:
Are you extorting free FRAM filters from the manufacteror as a conseqence of running down their product...

...I know you did this with Royal Purple and it worked...

...which companies have not given you free stuff yet; I want to run their products down so they send me free stuff too?

Patman

I'm as surprised as anyone that the Fram filter flowed so well on that test, but it could also be a leaky filter too. Just look at how poorly their Toughguard filter did on that test, and it's supposedly very similar media.

Fram could send me 100 oil filters if they wanted to, I wouldn't run them.

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

Excuse me if I've missed something here, but after reading all these threads (including bobtheoilman), I'm not sure that ANY conclusion can be identified, other than, "less oil pressure drop is better than more oil pressure drop" (at some point).
At what size is the particulate matter harmful to an engine? At what point in an engine's life does an acceptable particulate size cause harm? Might it be time for an engine rebuild anyway at this point?
What is the hidden exponent that describes an oil filter's cleansing performance, in association with engine wear and pressure drop?

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to add that this is probably one of the most intriguing topics I've encountered here. Thanks to all the resourceful people at work on this.

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gmag:
<strong>
At what size is the particulate matter harmful to an engine? At what point in an engine's life does an acceptable particulate size cause harm? Might it be time for an engine rebuild anyway at this point?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the tricky part, as different engines will react differently to different sized particles. A tighter clearance engine like many imports, will get more wear with a 15 micron particle than a larger clearance engine such as the LS1 and LT1, where those sized particles can just pass through the engine and cause very little harm.

robertbartsch

...what about the question of flow versus pressure...

I beleive they are not the same thing.

Patman; the test you site measures oil filter pressure only..

...ask anyone who has had an engine failure if they had oil pressure and the answer is likely to be YES since they would have stopped driving immediately if the answer was NO. Unfortunately, in these cases, the engine failure probabably was caused by a lack of oil flow not a lack of oil pressure...

Therefore, you can have pressure but no flow. The test you site measured pressure not flow, correct?

Patman:
Are you saying that the FRAM filters don;t filter ...they just pass the oil from Point A to Point B? Please clarify...

...what is the basis for the bad rap on FRAM. If it is ligitimate... ...I will stop using them immediately. If the claims are hype then I will ignor the bad rap....

Patman

I would assume that if the filter shows less of a pressure drop between those two oil pressure gauges in the test, it's flowing better. That makes sense doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

There have been many reports of Fram filters failing all across the internet. If you do a search it's pretty scary some of the stuff that's out there. The thing is, Fram uses cardboard endcaps and very sub-par internal materials. They are opening themselves up to possible failure due to inferior materials. It might just be good enough for a 3k interval in a gently driven car, but I wouldn't chance it with extended intervals or for a high horsepower car. And since there are better made filters for less money, why bother with Fram?

I'm honestly not sure if that filter in the test was bypassing the filter media entirely, but it's just curious how their low end filter has only a 4psi pressure drop while their more expensive Toughguard shows a whopping 18psi drop! I am trying to convince Bob to retest with a new Fram filter to see if the results are the same.

And he is redoing the test again and will be trying out other aspects too such as with hot oil, testing out bypass opening pressures, antidrainback valve quality, etc. This is only the very beginning of a very interesting test!

robertbartsch

How about asking the oil guy with the 20+ years of hard core on the job experience...?

...please ask him if he beleives oil pressure is a surrogate for oil flow...

Since he likes flow alot, ask him if his pressure test is a good indicator of oil flow and whether he would use a FRAm based on his tests.

I'm just not convinced this is a test that means anything at all....

While your at it, please also ask him if the pressure test would be consistent with other filters made from the same manufacteror; the FRAM filter I use for my ls1 is tiny; the FRAM filter he used in the test looks like it was designed for a 18-wheel MAC truck!!!

Tin Indian

Patman ...

I am still using the good ol' PF-59
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Is that still a pretty good filter for my daily driver?
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I am so damned happy this 98 TA still burns no oil even after putting in the 5.3 heads, cam, header, LS6 intake combo.

Still using Mobil 1 10/30 (changed from 5/30) I guess either one are ok. Change the filter and oil every 4,000 miles or so.