43 WHP gain with shorties, why such a bad rap ?
10-28-2009, 07:45 AM
#41
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If you want to see true #'s on the increase between stock, shorties, and long tubes, you need to do a comparison on a stock engine with stock manis, stock engine with shorties, and stock engine with long tubes.
10-28-2009, 08:19 AM
#42
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#1 Somebody punch whoever made that dyno graph with 3 different shutdown point and then tried to compare them
#2 shorties will add power. so will a small cam. But full length headers and a bigger cam will add more power.
#3 did anyone pay attention to the down low tq gain. Huge!
its just not worth it to go shorties anymore than taking 5lbs out is and calling it weight reduction. cost to benefit ratio is what its about. same reason people like nitrous
#2 shorties will add power. so will a small cam. But full length headers and a bigger cam will add more power.
#3 did anyone pay attention to the down low tq gain. Huge!
its just not worth it to go shorties anymore than taking 5lbs out is and calling it weight reduction. cost to benefit ratio is what its about. same reason people like nitrous
10-28-2009, 09:40 AM
#43
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LOL That dynosheet looks like someone made it in excel- misleading for sure, especially since it looks like the operator took the pulls to different rpm in each instance. At this point I would challenge these results and even the validity of the graph.
That being said, I bought my car with a set of (what I believe to be) Mac mid lengths. I am not exactly sure, but either way they are not full length. I am pretty happy with them as my combination is similar to a stock ls6. However, I find it hard to believe that full length headers will produce a gain in low rpm torque of this magnitude. If anyone has a dyno sheet (one that doesn't look like it was made in Excel) showing this difference, I would love to see it. (On a stock-ish combo, not a H/C/I or a 408 with Dart heads preferrably)
That being said, I bought my car with a set of (what I believe to be) Mac mid lengths. I am not exactly sure, but either way they are not full length. I am pretty happy with them as my combination is similar to a stock ls6. However, I find it hard to believe that full length headers will produce a gain in low rpm torque of this magnitude. If anyone has a dyno sheet (one that doesn't look like it was made in Excel) showing this difference, I would love to see it. (On a stock-ish combo, not a H/C/I or a 408 with Dart heads preferrably)
10-28-2009, 12:09 PM
#44
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Long tubes build out midband torque and don't interfere
with top end airflow. Shorties and fat Y can give you
nearly the same peak HP, but a narrower peak. Which
a M6 guy might not like, but someone with a 4000RPM
stall converter won't even see because they just hang
out at 5500+RPM the whole way down the track anyhow.
with top end airflow. Shorties and fat Y can give you
nearly the same peak HP, but a narrower peak. Which
a M6 guy might not like, but someone with a 4000RPM
stall converter won't even see because they just hang
out at 5500+RPM the whole way down the track anyhow.
10-28-2009, 12:21 PM
#45
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I admit I didnt take a real look at the graph itself until someone pointed it out. Is it possible that each setup just didnt make more power beyond those points so they made a comparo graph like this to be easier to read ?
10-28-2009, 12:38 PM
#46
My 02 ls1 doesn't run or sound near as good as my 99 and i think its because of the cast iron exhaust manifolds they changed to. I think the factory shorty headers work better than the cast iron manifolds. so i can see how after market would be even better.
10-28-2009, 09:52 PM
#52
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What truth?!?! All I see in this thread is a FAKE *** graph and a bunch of opinionated debate.
Since when did an LSX or any other late model V8 for that matter make only 50 HP at 3,100 rpm? this is as fake as it gets. there isnt even anything showing other variables such as temps, humidity etc. which u need for a real apples to apples comparison.
don't feel hurt cause u have shorties and nobody likes em. as long as u think it was worth it thats all that matters.
i personally wouldn't trade my stainless headers, dual cutouts and stock muffler for any exhaust combo out there. but thats me
Since when did an LSX or any other late model V8 for that matter make only 50 HP at 3,100 rpm? this is as fake as it gets. there isnt even anything showing other variables such as temps, humidity etc. which u need for a real apples to apples comparison.
don't feel hurt cause u have shorties and nobody likes em. as long as u think it was worth it thats all that matters.
i personally wouldn't trade my stainless headers, dual cutouts and stock muffler for any exhaust combo out there. but thats me
10-28-2009, 10:10 PM
#53
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All I see in this thread is a FAKE *** graph and a bunch of opinionated debate.
Since when did an LSX or any other late model V8 for that matter make only 50 HP at 3,100 rpm? this is as fake as it gets. there isnt even anything showing other variables such as temps, humidity etc. which u need for a real apples to apples comparison.
don't feel hurt cause u have shorties and nobody likes em. as long as u think it was worth it thats all that matters.
i personally wouldn't trade my stainless headers, dual cutouts and stock muffler for any exhaust combo out there. but thats me
Since when did an LSX or any other late model V8 for that matter make only 50 HP at 3,100 rpm? this is as fake as it gets. there isnt even anything showing other variables such as temps, humidity etc. which u need for a real apples to apples comparison.
don't feel hurt cause u have shorties and nobody likes em. as long as u think it was worth it thats all that matters.
i personally wouldn't trade my stainless headers, dual cutouts and stock muffler for any exhaust combo out there. but thats me
Personally I think that graph was put together just to show the main differences in the three. Probably not the actual entire dynos.
10-28-2009, 10:31 PM
#54
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You are wrong sorry. Lots of people like them . They arent as popular but there are lots of LS2s with great results on them. Not as good as LTs but much better then stock. Lots of guys with shorties making 370-378 WHP with nothing but CAI and tunes. LT/tunes on the same cars generally dont make more then 380. Another LS2 Goat member was making 422 WHP/415 TQ with shorties and a baby 224 cam stock heads. More mods will need better breathing of course.
Shorties are definitely better than stock. LTs are definitely better than shorties. If there is a good reason to stick with shorties then go for it. Other than that it would be like buying an oversize smooth bellow and keepin the stock MAF and TB.
I never scrape my headers and the install wasn't any harder than the shorties i put on my friends car. Those are the only 2 reasons that would apply to me so i'll stick with LTs
10-28-2009, 10:55 PM
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10-29-2009, 10:42 AM
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i remember a post about a year ago, a comparison between 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 headers. this was on a stock cubed engine, a gain of 5 hp in the upper rpm range. most people were saying oh ah, gotta go bigger. i disagreed with the comparison on the fact they were using a fast intake and im not sure what other mods. my feelings on the subject of headers and such, its too the persons needs and performance gains along with some people need to comply with idiotic state laws. are shorties worth the money i dont know, and yes we all know longtubes are better flowing.
10-29-2009, 10:56 AM
#58
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LTs usually make a atleast 10 WHP more as even the "fake" dyno shows. The bigger build the bigger the gains. I only started the thread to show that shorties arent a total waste of time and money. Not as good as long tubes but clearly an upgrade over stock . A compromise. I think they get a very bad rap by most people whenever you see a shorty thread on these forums. This thread has actually remained fairly open minded which is nice to see .
Last edited by dlively11; 10-29-2009 at 12:27 PM.
10-29-2009, 10:59 AM
#59
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why all the fuss about shorties and longtubes? They all suck compared to my modified honda vtak stock manifold i installed on my ls1.. i dont need to tell you the numbers that it puts down now. you know they are big.
10-29-2009, 11:00 AM
#60
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on a side note i picked up 30 rwhp horsepower on a mustang dyno with my LPP headers and magnaflow exhaust over my stock 00 manifolds and chokemaster.
Last edited by got-a-ls1; 10-29-2009 at 12:42 PM.