-Op-

PowerShift, your friend has this hooker dual system + mid length headers? Not modified to have long tubes or something?

_JB_

iTrader: (33)

I know these are two different cars and situations, but here is mine:

My car stock, 60k miles, with lid and Hooker Aerochamber catback=300rwhp and 315rwtq.

A year later at about 70k miles, I added 1 3/4 Hooker LTs and 3" ORY (has a horrible merge)+heavier drivetrain setup (LS7 clutch and 9")=334rwhp and 360rwtq on the same Mustang dyno.

Considering my car made that power through a Mustang dyno vs Dynojet, and I'm assuming both cars are M6, I'd estimate the LT+ORY setup is probably good for 10rwhp/tq over the dual Hooker setup. Maybe with 1 7/8 headers it would be 15rwhp/tq? I think my entire exhaust setup was $700, but it is NOT stainless. Also I did not need a panhard relocation.

As for ground clearance, the only place I ever scrape is the pipe right under the driver seat, which is almost up against the body of the car. I don't see how this midlength setup+2.5 exhaust would make any difference, unless that same pipe was pressed to an oval shape similar to stock (and I think Kooks does this).

wayland1985

I think this one is also pressed right on the driver's side. ARH's Y does the same too.

PowerShift408

iTrader: (44)

Yes sir. His car was the one used to prototype both the midlength headers and the true dual exhaust.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

most F-Body owners who have installed headers have gone with long tubes hence the market saturation. a compromise wouldve been optional adapter parts for the majority with long tubes.

Toddoky

That suggestion is one I like, but one that typically doesn't work out in practice since you have no control over when other manufacturers execute design revisions or obsolete a part number and also do not have access to their master samples to design products to. Using production parts for such development work is not desirable due to the production tolerances present.

Grifter

iTrader: (12)

Looks like a very nice system! Good luck with it.

Toddoky

Thanks Grifter.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

Hooker makes long tubes.. they also make long tubes for the 4th gen fbody. It'll work out.

2QuikTA

I love the sound of my Hooker catback, which makes me very interested in the Hooker duals....that said..

My worry is that while right now I'm just bolt-ons, in the somewhat near future I'll be going H/C and like everybody else I'm worried what power will be left on the table.

Also, those tips are hideous. You couldn't just use the same tips from the catback? These tips look like they were put together by a third rate muffler shop.

Empatho

iTrader: (16)

Thats a great exhaust you guys have there, if I didn't have my bassani true duals already I would definitely look into this exhaust. What I really like about this exhaust over the bassani is that the muffler setup is cleaner with less bends.

Toddoky

Yes, Hooker does make 4th-gen F-body long-tubes, but they do not provide the level of fitment/ground clearance that is satisfactory to us to be labeled a Blackheart product. This is the reason you won't see connection pipes offered by us for the current Hooker 4th-gen headers.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

so offer it as a way to use 'modern Blackheart products for your legacy Hooker headers.'

Toddoky

The tips have their asymmetric geometry due to the 6" diameter of the mufflers, which is what provides the ability to control the resonance inside the car as well as the system does. The tips on the stock cat-back systems are also configured in the same asymmetric configuration, which means you could cut those off of a stock system and repurpose them for use on this system if desired.

The existing Hooker cat-back uses a single transverse muffler and is not subject to the same fitment constraints as when packaging two mufflers pointed straight out the back in these cars.

If you do some searching on this forum you will see all kinds of work-arounds guys have attempted in the past to try and address this issue, including notching out the spare tire well and mounting mufflers on their sides.

There are varying tastes when it comes to tips and we've been discussing design options for alternative tips for this system that we can develop and release in the future.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Toddoky

I don't see that happening since it will require sacrificing the optimized level of ground clearance designed into the exhaust system. If a bolt-on connection to long-tubes is to be provided in the future, it will come in the form of a new set of headers. With new headers would come higher tucked merge-style collectors, laser cut flanges and the same TIG welded/hand-finished ports that are used on our existing Blackheart headers, so I'm sure there would be a preference for them for anyone who has interest in the quality aspects of the exhaust system.

I can say this with a high level of certainty due to the fact that test fitting and evaluating the current long-tubes for suitability in the regard was the first thing I did when the project began last year. They fit reasonably well for when and how they were designed, but they don't represent what Hooker is trying to provide to the market through the Blackheart line.

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

Just seeing these for the first time after a friend showed them to me. Got really excited at the price then saw they werent for long tubes. No go.

Im also disapointed I couldn't run different tips due to the offset design. After having 4" quad tips on my bird I couldn't downsize that much. They just fill out the cutouts so well. That's not as big of a deal as no long tube option though.

n2oblkz

iTrader: (1)

I guess I don't see what the big deal is with guys talking long tubes. Any decent exhaust shop can EASILY adapt this system to any long tube header.

Toddoky

Yep, it's understood this system won't meet the needs/tastes of everyone in the market. This is most notably true when it comes to tip styling as a particular style that is appealing to some users is a no-go for others.

As far as long-tubes are concerned, others like myself are used to having to create exactly what it is you want with many aftermarket parts and have no issue with breaking out the fabricating tools and making it happen.

thetmeister05

So I just found this thread yesterday, and while I haven't read through much more than about half, the endless circles about long tubes is kinda moot.

This is literally the perfect system for anybody with limited income (i.e. the younger guys that are buying these cars now) as well as the people who realistically understand that most of these cars are street driven. If you're worried about how the system sounds compared to your y-pipe setup AND worried about losing 10-20 hp, you're not being realistic. Do you want maximum power, do you want the best sound or do you want it to be more affordable than the other options?

Everybody complains about the fitment and price of the kooks setup and when presented with a legitimate alternative that completely offsets those negatives, they complain it's not as good. You can't have everything. You're gonna make a sacrifice somewhere. That being said, there's no reason a good quality exhaust shop can't modify the system to match any other brand of long tube for relatively cheap, which means the total price is still around the same as just the kooks headers.

Now, after saying all that, I highly doubt you guys have done anything but BROADEN your market on this. My car is driven on the street. I want an exhaust that sounds better than the majority of the other options available, and I would like to be able to afford it this decade. I think those desires are really what drives the majority of people who are looking for an exhaust.

This looks like an extremely well built product with tons of thought put into the design, which is what we need when it comes to spending money on our cars, right? I won't be ready to purchase for awhile, but I can guarantee that this has officially taken the place over a kooks system for me.

** A couple things I forgot to mention: One thing I do very strongly agree with is presenting some kind of set up that would provide adapters to long tubes. I understand that there are complicated logistics to doing that and in reality, isn't necessarily on you, but I believe it should be considered; at least to provide for the major LT brands, kooks, ARH etc...

Another thing that does bother me is the tips, and I'm aware it seems to bother other users as well. I agree with the statement that considering this is the part that you actually SEE, something should be done about the appearance. I'm not saying that the tips look bad, but as you know the general preference is at the very least the twin wall designs. I'm aware that it would dramatically increase the price, but there should at least be something of an option at time of purchase. Or maybe even a tipless design with an adapter that allows us to mount any other tip we would want.

Toddoky

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion and observations. You are pretty much seeing the system/components for what we intended them to represent in the market. The comments from the "long-tube or nothing" portion of the market are not surprising and were expected from the onset. I completely get where they are coming from and I enjoy developing parts for their needs/ wants as well. This round of products for 4th gens is not targeted to that user segment, but I don't feel this is the last time we will visit this application, so the possibility exists to build on these initial offerings. Developing adapters to connect the exhaust system to competitor's headers is not feasible as we do not posses access to their master samples or have the ability to inspect and validate the control mechanisms incorporated into their build fixtures. You are exactly right about the tips in the fact that providing them in a dual wall configuration will greatly affect the cost of the system and I mentioned previously that we have had discussions about possible alternative designs that we may wish to offer as part of a later release. One poster mentioned that he likes the look of the tips on the current Hooker single pipe system and oddly enough, the tips on this system look pretty much the same when the car is on the ground. Things will grow from here, but it will take time as parts development is not something that takes place in an overnight fashion.