Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Last night at National Trail Raceway was a typical Wednesday grudge night, very busy. I was lucky enough to get there extra early so I could get in the staging lanes before the lines really got long. I ended up be first in line, then I found out that everyone is limited to 2 runs only, then you can do eliminations. BS if you ask me, $5.00 per run…. I don’t compete and didn’t want to stay until 10pm, had things to do….

So I’m sporting a new mod, my awesome looking SLP LT headers. I figure N/A they should give me 2-3 tenths in the 1/4 mile. I get up to stage, make sure my cutout is open, I bring the RPM’s up to about 3,500 and let the clutch out hard and I bogged a bit. Damn it!!! Oh Well, car seems to be pulling hard down the 1/4 mile, I go through the traps and thought to myself, not too bad of a run, should be a 12.9x for sure. I picked up my slip and I did a 13.19 @ 106 MPH !!! WTF is going on??? Almost $1,100 on LT headers and now I’m slower??? My personal best was a 12.99 @ 108 MPH N/A with stock manifolds, air lid, and cutout…

Ok, maybe I f’d up somewhere. I get back up to make another run 5-7 minutes later. Since this is my last run for the night, I’m turning my Nitrous on for this one. (75 Shot) Again, I make sure my cutout is open. This time I bring the RPM’s up to 4,000 and let the clutch out hard again. The launch felt better this time but not what I hoped for. (I suck at launching) My car is pulling very hard to redline in every gear, shifting when my shift light tells me, not hitting my stock rev limit. The N20 is working great, not cutting out at all. I went through the traps and felt good, but not great about the run. I pick up my slip and I did 12.68 @ 113 MPH WTF is going on???

I spent all this money on a new mod and it makes me run slower? I got to thinking that maybe I am running lean and I am making less power. And yes I am heating up my Nitto Drag radials. I have a SLP Line Lock which makes it easy….

I parked my car, and watched for a few minutes. I see this one guy I’ve talked to before out at the track getting ready to take his car down. I think his name is Mike and he drives a red 2000 Saleen Mustang SuperCharged 281. He’s an older guy, retired, very cool person, loves all cars. He has done a bunch of stuff to his car and he runs consistant 12.5x-12.6x @ 108 in the 1/4 mile. He bogs off the line a bit and only does a 13.1x @ 105 !!!!

So I went to go find him to see what he did wrong. After talking to him, he has no idea why he was slower. So maybe it’s the track that night. The weather was pretty good, mid 70’s, lower humidity.

After watching for about an hour I headed home so I can hook my laptop up to my car to see what’s going on. Once I got home I hooked the laptop up and I made a few pulls in 1st and 2nd gear N/A. If I am reading the right O2 sensors (Bank1 sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor 1) I am around .910-.925. If my memory is correct, that means I’m a little rich or just right.

I turned my N20 on and did the same thing, this time, my O2’s were a little lower around .870 - .895. I think that is still pretty good and I not running really lean with the N20.

Ever since I installed my SLP LT headers, the car runs great, never had a problem and the SES light never came on. Autotap doesn’t report any error codes of any kind.

So what the hell is going on? Why am I running slower now? Could it have been the track? I didn’t spin at all at the track, more or less bogged…. The SOTP is there, but the track is where the truth comes out.

I hope someone can explain why I am running slower, and please be technical about it if you would.

Thanks for reading….

Bill

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

few questions:

what was your 60 with headers?
what was your 60 without the headers?

if that Saleen was running that much slower than it wasnt your car. It was the weather. Wait till fall comes around and im sure you will be more than happy with your headers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 98TAauto:
<strong>few questions:

what was your 60 with headers?
what was your 60 without the headers?

if that Saleen was running that much slower than it wasnt your car. It was the weather. Wait till fall comes around and im sure you will be more than happy with your headers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My best 60 foot was 1.99 and last night was a 2.00x. I know, I suck at launching... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

What do you suggest for launching on drag radials?

BAD APPLE

You definitely answered your own question with those Saleen observations.

The extra power is there, you just need to find it. Either by studying your driving style or looking into massaging the PCM. 2 runs isn't nearly enough to shakedown the car with your new mods.

niphilli

Was the S-281 guy baffled too or did he miss a shift. Maybe the tracks timers were Fugged up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

-Nick

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by niphilli:
<strong>Was the S-281 guy baffled too or did he miss a shift. Maybe the tracks timers were Fugged up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

-Nick</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The guy in the Saleen couldn't understand it either. So it's possible that the track timers could go out???

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

My other question is shift points. It's possible that the addition of the headers moved your power peak a little bit and you'll need to compensate by altering your shift points.

Again, just a suggestion.

Although, the O2 readings do seem a bit on the rich side. But the others are right... if the Saleen guy was .5-.6 off his pace, then something else is going on.

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

its more than likely the weather though. Plus your 60's was close to the 1.99, but still every bit off makes a difference. I cant help your launches cause you have the M6 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

with my A4 i just leave at idle or close to on Nittos <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> 1.5-1.6's all day <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

if everyone else was off in ET, then i wouldnt sweat it any. If you look at it this way, the Saleen was off 5-6 tenths so add that to your ET's to get a idea. Then you get your 2-3 tenths from the headers <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

Tin Indian

Bill,
I did some investigating for you. The track you ran at was in Hebron, OH.

The closest weather reporting station I could find to that track is Newark Heath, OH.

Atmospheric conditions at Newark Heath on 28 Aug at 7:00 PM were:

Temp: 77 degrees F
Humidity: 59%
Baro Press: 30.12"

That gave you a density altitude of +1180 feet during your run.

The non-nitrous 13.19 @ 106.00 you actually ran converts to a [corrected to standard sea level conditions] 13.03 @ 107.34
Probably not what you wanted to hear!

Ron,

These corrected 1/4 mile times I am showing are only accurate if the track you ran at was physically located in Newark Heath. Don't really know how far you were from there, but I would assume the numbers would be pretty close anyway......

Ron,
Investigative Services <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
____________________________________________

<small>[ August 30, 2002, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Newark is about 5-10 miles away from the track.

Thanks for all the help. I might go back this friday if the weather is good. If not, I'll be heading back to the track on Sept 27th at Norwalk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kimchee and Rice:
<strong>Bill,
I did some investigating for you. The track you ran at was in Hebron, OH.

The closest weather reporting station I could find to that track is Newark Heath, OH.

Atmospheric conditions at Newark Heath on 28 Aug at 7:00 PM were:

Temp: 77 degrees F
Humidity: 59%
Baro Press: 30.12"

That gave you a density altitude of +1180 feet during your run.

The non-nitrous 13.19 @ 106.00 you actually ran converts to a [corrected to standard sea level conditions] 13.03 @ 107.34
Probably not what you wanted to hear!

Ron,

These corrected 1/4 mile times I am showing are only accurate if the track you ran at was physically located in Newark Heath. Don't really know how far you were from there, but I would assume the numbers would be pretty close anyway......

Ron,
Investigative Services <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
____________________________________________</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

Did you reset your pcm when you put the headers in? I did when I put my Hookers in. After it relearned, my a/f is .89-.90 (like before the headers), and I feel a nice power gain. There's no doubt my car is much faster now.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

I think I have to join the my car is slower after headers club...I thought I had my car tuned in and I did unhook the battery when did the headers but my o2 were high like over .925 so I cranked them down to .890 or so by taking my maft down
5 clicks..base is zero and ltrims look ok..
made one run today and got worse than my last run without the headers also..best run with car so far on my tazzo..sorry no track near me..was 13.6 at 107.2 ..mods..lid,holley filter,gms maf,ported tb,ls6 intake,b1 cam,asp pulleys ,cf driveshaft.
2.27 60ft..today got one run in ,cooler weather by like twenty degrees..no wind to speak of ,only got one run in..felt fast but..sopt can lie..
13.81 at 103.5 with a 2.35 60ft...yeah lost some time with the 60ft but where the 110 mph I expected..think I shifted good..I might have had spin thru first past the 60ft..will this kill mph?? I was very slow shifting..car has trouble hitting third at high rpm..I don't think I tagged the limiter..maybe I did..its set to 6600 and the light is 6100 ..thought that would be enough.I am depressed..have to do a bunch more runs and play a bunch more with my tuning..wish the hell I had a wideband dyno within 500 miles of me..I will probably just have to tune with mph and my tazzo.
starting to wonder if you can tune with the scanmaster /autotap and maft at all...has anyone actually got their ltrims slightly negative at part throttle and go their o2s around .890 and got a got air fuel and hp on the dyno....I thought my car should run corrected for altitude mph of around 114 or 115...seen similar cars do that..I don't speedshift and my car is heavy..3880 today..full tank of gas.but was 3/4 tank last run..I feel your pain...maybe have to go offoad pipes no cats next spring.and if I get new heads will make the 500 mile trip to the dyno and maybe couple trips to real track if i get a 12 bolt and some drag radials..

wrencher

iTrader: (2)

You don't speedshift? do you mean full throttle tap clutch shiftin' ? ya gotta!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

07BlueDevilZ06

iTrader: (8)

im sure if you put it on a wideband dyno you will see that you are way rich like 11.4 i know when i put mu headers on i was .4 richer then before the headers i have ls1 edit now and have to get to the dyno to tune it up o and btw i lost like 5-7 hp on the low end and gained 19 on the top end only problem is that my factory 1-2 **** point was 5500 and my peak hp was at 5950 so im sure thats hurting me tuning and different shift points will help alot

george

Lane

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kimchee and Rice:
<strong>Bill,
I did some investigating for you. The track you ran at was in Hebron, OH.

The closest weather reporting station I could find to that track is Newark Heath, OH.

Atmospheric conditions at Newark Heath on 28 Aug at 7:00 PM were:

Temp: 77 degrees F
Humidity: 59%
Baro Press: 30.12"

That gave you a density altitude of +1180 feet during your run.

____________________________________________</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that track at sea level? That's the only way it would come up +1100 DA. At 500 ft elevation, it's +1800. 750 it's over 2000, etc..

I went from a 13.14 in great weather to a 13.005 in hot weather and headers(MAC's). He's not too far off where he should be, but his 12.99(with stock manifolds) is exceptional - and tough to rate progress against.

What type of weather was the 12.99 run in?

<small>[ September 04, 2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Lane ]</small>

Supertrapped

Ummm...cause SLP sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Bad02WS6

SLP headers are crap.

Any good header, <even in bad weather> you should see a improvment over stock.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
What type of weather was the 12.99 run in?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It was around 63-65 on May 10th