New dyno #'s after Fast92 install!!
07-03-2008, 07:02 PM
#42
yeah gain for SI (stock internal) of a fast 90/90 is onyl around 5rwhp over a ls6 intake...kinda the reason i still dont have one on my cam only...might be worth 10-15 cam only but not for $1200...
those ls6 intakes flow...awesome results if you are going for a stock internals time
those ls6 intakes flow...awesome results if you are going for a stock internals time
07-04-2008, 10:29 AM
#43
Tech Resident
You need to explain this.
I want to know how to much intake hurts? If you can get all the air the engine needs how does that hurt it? An engine is an air pump is it not? How by allowing it to breath better do you hurt it? Do you think restiction helps it?
How in the heck does allowing more air to an air pump hurt it????
The goal is to fill the cylinder.
I want to know how to much intake hurts? If you can get all the air the engine needs how does that hurt it? An engine is an air pump is it not? How by allowing it to breath better do you hurt it? Do you think restiction helps it?
How in the heck does allowing more air to an air pump hurt it????
The goal is to fill the cylinder.
Yea, the engine is an "air pump," and with an intake that's too large, it's a highly inefficient "air pump."
07-04-2008, 12:37 PM
#44
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I am sorry to tell you but your theory holds no water! The car lost "0" torque at 3500 and by 4200 gained 21 tq. What rpm do you consider low end ? 1500? the dyno does not show that rpm. I guess i wont be able to do any towing with the car now!!
07-04-2008, 12:52 PM
#45
Someone tell this guy heads and cam are internal engine parts 
07-04-2008, 01:10 PM
#46
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There is definitely such a thing as too much intake.
The argument was never whether or not a FAST 92/92 would make more than an LS1 intake. Of course it will. No one has ever said that. Then question is, will it make more than an LS6 intake? The consensus is on a stock internals LS1, with an LS6 intake, you will make roughly the same gains for 1/3 of the price. You'd probably pick up low end with an LS6 intake. Why spend $1200 when you could spend $450 for the same gains if not more torque? That's the argument. The argument has never been LS1 intake vs. FAST.
The argument was never whether or not a FAST 92/92 would make more than an LS1 intake. Of course it will. No one has ever said that. Then question is, will it make more than an LS6 intake? The consensus is on a stock internals LS1, with an LS6 intake, you will make roughly the same gains for 1/3 of the price. You'd probably pick up low end with an LS6 intake. Why spend $1200 when you could spend $450 for the same gains if not more torque? That's the argument. The argument has never been LS1 intake vs. FAST.
07-04-2008, 01:21 PM
#48
Tech Resident
First off, your car never had an LS6 intake on it. Obviously you're going to gain everywhere vs. an LS1 intake because it's very restrictive. The question here is whether or not a stockish car would be better with an LS6 intake vs. a FAST 92/92. The FAST probably would have lost torque vs. an LS6 intake, and I'm speaking of torque underneath 3000 rpm's. That is low end. Above 4,000 rpms is top end.
07-04-2008, 01:23 PM
#49
Tech Resident
no such thing as to much intake, the fast leaves room to grow, while making more power then the ls6, all the haters on the fast are the ones with the ls6 intake, why spend money on the ls6 intake then eventually sell it, when u want more airflow, do it right the first time, ull loose money, fast intake all the way
It's flow mechanics, and it's not a theory, it's a fact.I guess you think there is no such thing as too much exhaust, either huh? Because they both follow the same rules.
07-04-2008, 03:01 PM
#52
Tech Resident
I have a 2001. They come stock with an LS6 intake. I never paid for an intake because, frankly, a FAST 92/92 would be a complete waste of money on my setup. If I ever go FI or H/C, THEN I'll get a FAST, but it's a complete waste on a stock NA motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
07-04-2008, 03:17 PM
#53
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I have a 2001. They come stock with an LS6 intake. I never paid for an intake because, frankly, a FAST 92/92 would be a complete waste of money on my setup. If I ever go FI or H/C, THEN I'll get a FAST, but it's a complete waste on a stock NA motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
a couple of weeks ago some guy put on some 1 7/8 headers, everyone was telling him he would loose power, including mr choco, when he dynoed the car he gained, and didnt loose torque, like everyone said he would, same thing here, like i said room to grow and if dosnt hurt stop hating, whenever someone puts something on their car and it make power, and its something that choco dont have he starts hating
, good #s to the op
07-04-2008, 09:41 PM
#54
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Ugh. THERE IS DEFINITELY SUCH A THING AS TOO MUCH INTAKE. If there wasn't, you'd be able to gain by running open heads. Zero restriction there It's flow mechanics, and it's not a theory, it's a fact.
I guess you think there is no such thing as too much exhaust, either huh? Because they both follow the same rules.
It's flow mechanics, and it's not a theory, it's a fact.I guess you think there is no such thing as too much exhaust, either huh? Because they both follow the same rules.
Do you have any data supporting what your saying?
07-04-2008, 09:43 PM
#55
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I have a 2001. They come stock with an LS6 intake. I never paid for an intake because, frankly, a FAST 92/92 would be a complete waste of money on my setup. If I ever go FI or H/C, THEN I'll get a FAST, but it's a complete waste on a stock NA motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
This has nothing to do with brand loyalties. That has nothing to do with "what you're running." This has to do with physics. The FAST 92/92 is too much intake on a stock motor. That's why a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake is recommended on a stock NA motor, not a FAST, and that is why people have noted drop-offs in low end with a FAST swap on a stock motor.
This guy Donnie posted some REAL tech results.
Typical internet B.S. is ruining this thread.
07-04-2008, 11:04 PM
#56
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who cares about loss of tq under 3k RPMs? While cruising around town you have less torque OHHH NOO!!! Oh wait thats what downshifting is for 
Just because you are not using the intake to its full potential does not mean its "too much intake" The only reason you want smaller runners and what not is for lower end torque. I have a 4k stall I don't care about under that, and above that a FAST intake will benefit. The only thing you could/should do is port match do it does not create air turbulence.
Just because you are not using the intake to its full potential does not mean its "too much intake" The only reason you want smaller runners and what not is for lower end torque. I have a 4k stall I don't care about under that, and above that a FAST intake will benefit. The only thing you could/should do is port match do it does not create air turbulence.
07-05-2008, 12:47 AM
#57
I've got a ls1 with 224/230 comp cam patriot stage 2 heads ls6 intake ported stock tb, I've since added the fast 92 ported and the nick williams 92mm tb along with an under drive pulley. I've never been more disappointed in my life, the injector durty cycle was 75% before now it's 72% so i'm using less fuel and my airflow is less than before as well. I did however pick up 4 counts of knock. I must admit the low end throttle is vastly improved with the bigger tb and the car does "feel" faster but the #'s in hp tuners show otherwise. At this point i'm not even sure it's worth the money to get it dyno'd. Have yet to tune the car but it should be making more power even without a tune.
07-05-2008, 12:59 AM
#58
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I've got a ls1 with 224/230 comp cam patriot stage 2 heads ls6 intake ported stock tb, I've since added the fast 92 ported and the nick williams 92mm tb along with an under drive pulley. I've never been more disappointed in my life, the injector durty cycle was 75% before now it's 72% so i'm using less fuel and my airflow is less than before as well. I did however pick up 4 counts of knock. I must admit the low end throttle is vastly improved with the bigger tb and the car does "feel" faster but the #'s in hp tuners show otherwise. At this point i'm not even sure it's worth the money to get it dyno'd. Have yet to tune the car but it should be making more power even without a tune.
get it tuned, then let us know
07-05-2008, 02:24 AM
#59
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oh boy this thread is a good one... just read through all this... love how "when i think of stock internals, i think of stock bottom end" bllahahhaaa... idiot... horrible save
agreed with the part of specifically matching an intake manifold to the components that make up the engine. everything needs to be balanced to a pinpoint, exhaust/scavenging, A:F ratio, etc. and if the amount of the incoming air velocity is not in sync with what the motor is needed it will have an impact...
I'm not saying a negative impact... it will just a have an impact, whether like stated, losing low end torque.
all in all we can agree that adding any intake besides the LS1 will pick up a few ponies but also a matter of cost over hp/tq ratio
agreed with the part of specifically matching an intake manifold to the components that make up the engine. everything needs to be balanced to a pinpoint, exhaust/scavenging, A:F ratio, etc. and if the amount of the incoming air velocity is not in sync with what the motor is needed it will have an impact...
I'm not saying a negative impact... it will just a have an impact, whether like stated, losing low end torque.
all in all we can agree that adding any intake besides the LS1 will pick up a few ponies but also a matter of cost over hp/tq ratio
07-05-2008, 08:00 PM
#60
Here are the logs if anyone is intrested
Before Fast
http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a2179...city_stack.csv
After fast
http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a2179...ast_intake.csv
Before Fast
http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a2179...city_stack.csv
After fast
http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a2179...ast_intake.csv