View Poll Results: Would you install an "off-the-shelf cam" dot-to-dot?
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Dot-to-dot.. or not?
01-04-2009, 07:25 AM
#21
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The last cam that I just installed was off by 2 1/2 degrees. If you are planning a heads/cam setup and trying to get optimum SCR and DCR and peak power, changing the cam advace 2-4 degrees changes the valve events you so carefully planned out. So yes, I would degree the cam.
01-04-2009, 01:06 PM
#22
Cams are not ground perfect at all. We've seen them be more than 4* off and that was with a very popular off this shelf cam on this site.
Not degreeing it in can account for why one person see's more power than another with the same combo. Its not that dot to dot is incorrect, but unless you check you dont know where your at.
I've seen some shops who dont check and then there are those who wont put a cam in without checking. We always check, it's easy enough and performance can be effected by it. How much it's effected all depends on how far its off. To some its minimal to others minimal is a world of difference. (Some guys spend hundereds to chase that 5 extra ponies, some guys dont think it matters.)
Not degreeing it in can account for why one person see's more power than another with the same combo. Its not that dot to dot is incorrect, but unless you check you dont know where your at.
I've seen some shops who dont check and then there are those who wont put a cam in without checking. We always check, it's easy enough and performance can be effected by it. How much it's effected all depends on how far its off. To some its minimal to others minimal is a world of difference. (Some guys spend hundereds to chase that 5 extra ponies, some guys dont think it matters.)
01-04-2009, 07:05 PM
#24
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My custom grind from thunder racing was suppose to be-232/232 .612"/.604" 110LSA +2
But luckily tr puts all ther cams on the cam doctor and actual cam specs came out to.
233.2/232.5 .613/.602 110.5 LSA
But luckily tr puts all ther cams on the cam doctor and actual cam specs came out to.
233.2/232.5 .613/.602 110.5 LSA
01-04-2009, 08:49 PM
#26
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Im buying an off-the-shelf cam and was starting to wonder whether I should just spend the extra dollars and get a workshop to install it.
I called THREE workshops and they ALL said they'd just install it straight up and not degree it in. I just had to give them the part number of the cam and springs I wanted and they'd supply the pushrods, timing chain and tune.
The cam is a Comp 54-456-11 - 219/227 .607/.614 112LSA
w/ Patriot dual springs
Would you install an off-the-shelf like this one dot-to-dot?
Main reason for a workshop was I didn't have the equipment to degree it in, if they won't even bother, I'll just do it myself then
I called THREE workshops and they ALL said they'd just install it straight up and not degree it in. I just had to give them the part number of the cam and springs I wanted and they'd supply the pushrods, timing chain and tune.
The cam is a Comp 54-456-11 - 219/227 .607/.614 112LSA
w/ Patriot dual springs
Would you install an off-the-shelf like this one dot-to-dot?
Main reason for a workshop was I didn't have the equipment to degree it in, if they won't even bother, I'll just do it myself then
01-04-2009, 09:00 PM
#27
How much does a "workshop" (not sure what that term even means...lol) charge to install a cam in these cars? The money he is saving doing it himself would be more than enough to cover the cost of a degree kit. And then if he see's he needs an adjustable t/c set, he can purchase one and still be ahead of the game IMO and learn something along the way.
01-04-2009, 09:37 PM
#29
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How much does a "workshop" (not sure what that term even means...lol) charge to install a cam in these cars? The money he is saving doing it himself would be more than enough to cover the cost of a degree kit. And then if he see's he needs an adjustable t/c set, he can purchase one and still be ahead of the game IMO and learn something along the way.
01-05-2009, 06:08 AM
#30
So you degree the cam, but if you don't have an adjustable timing you're just spinning your wheels. Most of the adjustable timing sets sold by sponsors on this site have fixed 2 degress increments of advance and retard. If you want more precise adjustment you have to go to an infinitely adjustable system like Jesel. Is it worth it? NASCAR thinks so.
01-05-2009, 10:55 PM
#32
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when i put my cam in im doing it dot to dot. dont have the money to degree it,but you know cam is a cam and its going to run good after its tuned. dont do dot to dot and you might regret it.good luck on the install.
01-05-2009, 11:07 PM
#33
lol! Did you read anything in this thread but the OP's first thread? Not telling you that you have to degree your cam, but your statement of "a cam is a cam" is not true at all. There is proof in this thread from knowledgle people that do this kind of work on a daily basis (not me) and see the errors in cam manufacturing and errors in dowel placement, etc. If these issues exist and you don't catch them, no tune in the world will make it right.
01-06-2009, 05:58 AM
#34
my lpe gt2-3 cam when installed dot to dot was 2 degrees off.
this not neccesarily was just the cams fault.
But all little things added up : manufacturer tolerances from chain , chain sprockets, crank sprockets, deck height etc .
this not neccesarily was just the cams fault.
But all little things added up : manufacturer tolerances from chain , chain sprockets, crank sprockets, deck height etc .
01-06-2009, 11:56 AM
#35
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For years, I would just "shove them in dot to dot" and only check p/v with no problems. Intill one time I had just a lazy pos. Checked it and it was 16 degrees retarted. Needless to say I always check them now. So I say check it or chance it, your choice.
01-06-2009, 02:17 PM
#36
Degreeing a cam is "Fine Tuning" where you at least have to be in the ball park to start with. This assumes all the parts and pieces were manufactured to tight machining specs. "16 degrees retarded" isn't even near the ball park let alone inside of it. All the degreeing in the world isn't going to get rid of that much of an error. Something major is wrong when your starting point is that far off. This problem has to be corrected before the degree wheel goes on. If you happen to get extremely lucky(powerball lucky) and the degree wheel says you're exactly 2 degrees off either advance or retard you can adjust for that with one of the popular timings sets that has multiple keyways. If you find you're not exactly 2 degrees off you're going to need one of the more expensive Jesel or Cloyes sets to take advantage of the precision adjustment degreeing a cam provides for.
01-06-2009, 02:59 PM
#37
long story short, made me look like i didnt know what i was doing, and cost me to help replace his motor.
former sponsor didnt do anything to help,
themthey are no longer around
good riddance
01-06-2009, 06:58 PM
#39
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