Lazpno

iTrader: (13)

Attempting to get back on topic, I cannot give you a comparison of those heads as I have not owned the 5.3 heads whatsoever. I have afr 205 heads and have loved them since the second i got them... second hand, off of this board. The heads I received were untouched out of the box heads with zero additional port work and no chamber work, the only change was the heads were milled to a 64cc chamber. They have made great power in my setup and my local performance shop has had nothing but good things to say about their cylinder heads as well as the company in general.

I spent alot of time reading about cylinder heads, checking on here the dyno results of multiple cylinder heads all with cams and setups that were close to what I would be running. From the information I had gathered, the AFR 205s were the heads that I wanted, without buying aftermarket rockers (I still love the TFS215 heads as I've seen them perform countless times flawlessly and make great power). Cylinder heads can make or break any setup, and with the amount of companies out there that make amazing cylinder heads in the price range of 2300-2800 all with very close results, it isn't going to be the numbers that sell you on a cylinder head. It's going to be quality, resale value, workmanship, and most important of all, customer service. I was sold on AFRs strictly because of how much time and effort AFR as a company as well as individual employees have put into the aftermarket cylinder head industry and racing industry in general. In all honesty, I did not seek to buy AFR heads originally, I was originally going to purchase TSP LS6 heads, I got lucky and found a good deal on a single season used set of AFR 205s on here, I then PM'd Tony and he answered every single question I had about the heads without any hesitation or trying to sell me a damn thing even though I wasn't buying the head brand new. When it comes time for me to buy another set of cylinder heads or anyone ever asks which heads to buy, I will easily choose AFRs strictly because of the support they continuously give.

From what I have seen, on this board, in real life, and in any sales transactions ever, there will be the guys who try to "sell" you every chance they get then there will be the guys who try to "educate" you so that you as a consumer can make the choice yourself.

This is an old thread but maybe it will better educate you on the choice you have to make.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...iscussion.html

Edit:
Off topic!!! After looking at some information on cylinder heads, how much porting/cnc work does it take to make the 5.3 head flow an additional 86 CFM? How much material is removed from the head? How is velocity affected by, what must be, a drastic increase in runner size/diameter?

IMO, if you are going to compare apples to apples, compare the AFR 205cc head to the PRC 215cc New Casting head.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/lsx-205cc-c-10_100.html

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=993&catid=20

Pretty close flow numbers... PRC head showing better numbers on the Intake side but Worse on the exhaust side? PRC stating bench variables of no exhaust pipe, and 3.910 bore where AFR 205 states 1-7/8" exhaust pipe and 3.900 bore? 2.04 valve vs 2.02 valve on intake, same size exhaust valve. Interesting. You can draw your own conclusions.

My only question left is if the stg 2.5 5.3 head obviously outperforms the AFR 205 head and has the flow numbers shown here, http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=84&catid=40

what was the reasoning for designing a new casting cnc head with smaller intake runner volume? Why should someone spend an extra $1000.00 for the new casting 215cc head vs the stg 2.5 5.3 head?

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

[QUOTE]its funny that not only did the prc casted heads out do the AFR's but so did the 5.3 prc heads.[QUOTE]

I know right!? Who really cares about dyno numbers anyway. Let see a track vid between the two...

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I have seen PRC headed cars perform, i have seen more of them not perform though. That say's alot.

Just like in the 224 cam thread, Its funny that all of the tsp grind 224 cams outperformed the Tr224 that has been a crowd favorite for many years of that size cam.
Op, do plenty of research. Dont go by slick marketing salesmen.
I have never had any dealings with TSP, no hard feelings with them whatsoever. Just have watched this same **** happen over the last couple years and watch to many people drawn in to spending there money on heads that make less power then my car with heads that only flow a true 257 cfm 241 castings.

It went 441 /410 tq with a f13 cam and only 10.5/1 compression.

I had $400 tied up in them. THat was a good budget head.

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

This thread and site cracks me up…if anyone bad talks TSP the thread gets deleted even when they have merit in their results…but a thread that is manufactured by TSP stays…who knows maybe the heads did out flow AFRs, will we ever know probably not…

Why don’t any of you Texan’s take TSP up on their offer…the best way to do it would be to get a head pre trip and have it shipped to your house, the same with the competition head so no ringers will be dynoed…

But then it would probably be deleted from this site because actual truthful information is too much to handle…

I mean why are crash tests done in cars, some finish with 2 stars and some with 4 stars, but all information is present and not slid under the door…don’t you think the car companies that got 2 stars are pissed, absolutely…is it going to hurt their sales, sure is…but maybe they should have made a better product…these tests and results are what make us strive to make the best product possible…not pull a smoke and mirrors magic show trying to pawn something off that it is not…

Ed Curtis

RARON455

iTrader: (35)

UHHH probably because we dont have 5 grand to spend on two sets of heads, then truck way on down to texas speed just to see the dyno and post the results so people can have a guess at what heads they would like to get some day if they ever have the money, Thats why,,, if we had the money to buy two sets of heads we would buy the trick flows and call it a day. PRC heads are extremely popular and competitive why, because they flow, and they are priced fair, Texas speed has a super reputation for their parts, AND CUSTOMER SERVICE I MIGHT ADD, I have spent quite a bit with them and currently have a set of PRC stage 2.5 heads the 5.3 ones, I have a custom cam and a ported fast 92 and I am in the process of doing the swap, I promise to post both my dyno results and track times when done you you can know real world numbers. I have a hard time listening to guys bash the work of others, If TSP posted their results, and have their policy of an open dyno THEN OBVIOUSLY they are not hiding nothing, There are a ton of us texans on this site who would gladly call the bullcrap if we were hit with it.
and as far as the crap about a sponsor bashing thread getting locked out, I have seen that with a couple of different sponsors, one of them very popular.

Johny GTO

a bit off topic, but i need to say something about it....

can people stop using flow numbers as an indication of which heads are better than others, please??? Flow numbers are only part of the equation, Just like port velocity is only part of the story. You can flow more out of a 2 foot diameter hose than a 4 inch diameter hose, right?? So why don't fire departments use a 2 foot diameter hose (assuming weight and other variables were the same)?? Thats because the water that comes out of the 4inch diameter hose will go much farther, faster, etc.

Now lets give you an analogy of port velocity...
You again take a water hose. This water hose will be spraying a water mist through it (similar to an air\fuel mixture in an engine). One hose is 4 inches thick the whole way through, end to end. The other hose is 4iches in some spots, 5 inches in other spots, and 2 inches at the outlet (port). This 2 inch outlet will have more velocity then the larger outlet house, right?? So is this a better hose to use to spray the water mist, even if the volume it is flowing (analogy to flow CFM) is the same as the bigger, consistant hose and this hose has more exit velocity (port velocity)??
I would say no, since due to the irregularities in the path of the mist flow (all the changes in size and shape of the irregualr hose), the air\water mixture is going to have lots of turbulence inside the hose (port).Due to this turbulence and changes in velocity from one area to another, much of the water has condensed out of the mist into larger droplets, you have air pockets followed by areas of pure liquid instead of mist, etc. What you are going to get out of the end of the irregular hose, even though it has equal CFM to the regular bigger outlet hose and has superior port velocity at the exit (valve), is an erratic "surging" of air, water, mist, large droplets, then a bit of water, then a fart of air, etc. So even though thiis hose has equal CFM and more "port velocity" and speed out of the valve, it is clearly not the superior "mist-er".

Does that help anyone understand heads and how to evaluate them?

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

Well every company compares their products to either AFR or Trickflow. That should tell you something right there. I mean I might be a little biased but I'm a firm believer in "You get what you pay for." I am not disrespecting TSP, I've ordered parts from them and they have good deals. BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, Tsp 2.5 5.3 vs AFR 205's? AFR hands down. If I was giving you a set of heads and I asked which one do you want, the AFR 205's or stage 2.5 truck heads....

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Sorry for anyone who doesn't like or believe the testing. This testing was done at a independent shop, not even on my engine dyno..

I never said AFR 205s aren't a good cylinder head, we've used them with good luck. This is a side by side out of the box comparison that was done over a year ago. No need for anyone to get butt hurt by any of this, this is just one test. If you don't agree with it or don't trust it that's completely fine. We use dyno testing as a measurement tool to make sure our products perform well next to the competiton.

All I did is simply offer the guy to come down & try a few different head combos & pick what works best for him.

Who else would offer anything like that? You get to come out & test a few different heads & leave with the set that you feel best fits your budget & goals. If it makes you feel any better someone could even pull a set from the assembly line. I don't keep the same set of heads for testing, I typically sell them off & use new sets.

Johny GTO

i dont think you mentioned in the original post that this was on an independent dyno, unless i missed that.

To be honest, what bothers people (i believe), and what made me view the post in a negative manner isnt the results. It was the way it came across. It didnt seem what was being said was "look at the great results we got", or "look at how our heads performed in this setup\car\combo".
It came across as "our heads out-perform AFR heads". Not your heads "outperformed them in this test", or something like that. It looked like a declaritve statement that your heads outperform AFR heads, period.

that is the problem in my opinion.

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

Yeah the up front cost might be 2,300 for a set of afr’s or whatever head you want to test and then TSP already said they would let you test any number of heads you want and leave with the ones that hit your goal…even if you bought a set of their heads just to test for $1,200-1,600 total is 4k right??

But what do you do after the test…you sell the damn heads genius…ls1 parts have a 90% plus resale value especially just being on the dyno…so maybe out a couple hundred dollars, but gain a vast amount of knowledge…

Just look at the used prices for FAST intakes, $50-$100 off new, that’s it…

If I was in Texas I wouldn’t mind taking them up on their offer…plus it would put a lot more closure to all of this…

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

My offer was I'll supply heads to test & he only pays for the set he keeps...

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

.
That's pretty bad ***. If I was closer, I would definitely look into that. No more LS1tech surfing before choosing your heads, get it right from the source.

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

amazing offer i wish you were closer to chicago, or even near Florida, wouldnt mind making a stop on my vacation

Johny GTO

that is a great offer. Way to stand behind your product. I respect that alot.
If i was buying heads at this point in time, i would absolutely take you up on that offer. Anyone looking to buy heads, who hasnt decided on their set yet, would be wise to give that a shot.



See, i don't have a hard on for you guys. Dont want you thinking that, cause its not so.

lilbuddy1587

iTrader: (1)

And here is Jason to save the day...

Your employee's post did NOT mention anything about an independent dyno being used. As far as anyone else knows, this was done on your very own engine dyno that you're already gathering so much information from with cams etc. Not long ago, in that very same 224 cam thread, you said to stay tuned for head vs head comparisons... Now all of the sudden, this was done on an independent engine dyno?

Edit- My bad, it was Matt who posted this in the 224 cam thread

99 vett babycar

I am also a very satisfied Texas Speed customer. My AFR's, purchased from Texas Speed, give me a hp/tq chart that looks like a table top from 2600 to 5300. All I can say is I like my AFR's.But they DO cost!

jaschutz79

iTrader: (1)

Chris,
I know you are looking for heads. I too am in the market. You buy a set and i'll buy a set and i'll fly them to Texas to compare them with what TSP has. Sound like a deal?

Scyry

Looking at every dyno graph TSP has posted from their engine dyno, one thing caught my attention. Whether it was cams or heads, the TSP products always out do every competitors products. That is fishy to me. No matter if you have the best company around, some other company will beat one of your products. So I don't trust results that always favor the company trying to sell something to me. I'd feel a lot better about the results if just once a competitor's product would come in second, if not first. Maybe TSP is selecting product they know will not outshine theirs. IDK, just seems fishy.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

this is exactly what I said .