brutalis

iTrader: (3)

I'm starting to gather parts for my top end build, which I will refer to as stage 1 of my engine project, and I'm looking for advice, info, tips, etc... anything that might be useful. The goal is to build the top end to get ready for a mild turbo setup (6-8 psi) while keeping the bottom end completely stock. The motor is a stock LS1 from a 98 TA, will be hitting the 100k mark within the next couple weeks. Here's what I've got so far:

I picked up a set of 317 heads, totally stock, 80k for a project for my IC Engines class. A couple friends and I set to work porting them, with great results:



Just got one cylinder done in the time allotted, but I'll finish them up over the next couple weeks while I'm on break from school.

I also got a Professional Products 96mm Typhoon aluminum intake, which will also get some mild port work, and the matching fuel rails. Still need a throttle body, which is question number 1: Will the ProfProd 96mm LS2 throttle body work in this application, or is there a similar one available for LS1?

I've also picked up a set of springs and rockers. The rockers are Comp Pro Magnum, 1.75 ratio. The springs, I have no idea. I bought them from a member here who said they came off a set of ET heads, that he was running them with a cam with .660 lift, and that they are "better than Patriot," so... yeah. There's that. I'll try to take them to the lab sometime soon and get a force-displacement curve so I know a little more about them, but .660 is way more than I plan on running, so I'm not super concerned about it right now.

The last thing is the cam. I have pretty well decided on getting Thunder Racing's "Reverse Split" - 227/224 .569/.563 114 LSA. From my research, it seems to be a solid turbo cam with a relatively smooth idle. Any comments or experience with it?

So I guess the other questions that I have for now are:
2. What head gaskets do I need to get? I'm assuming since the heads are from a 6.0L, I should use 6.0L gaskets, but is it worth the extra $ to get Cometic, or are the GM MLS gaskets sufficient?

3. To head stud, or not to head stud? Since it will be going turbo, I would assume that it's a good idea, but what all is involved?

4. Is my pushrod length going to change?

...and the big one right now,
5. Valves? The ones that came with the heads seem to be in pretty good shape, but will it be worth it to upgrade? I've looked at getting the LS6 hollow/sodium combo, but I've heard that the 2-piece design isn't great under high pressure. The other option, obviously, is Manley stainless. What is involved in changing valve size? How big can you go without modifying the heads, and how hard are the heads to modify if I go that route?

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions along the way... I'd rather ask questions and risk looking like a fool than have to find out the hard way, so thanks in advance!

LS1-450

iTrader: (33)

-Upgrade to higher tensile strength rod bolts. Keep a close eye on rod bearing clearance after torquing. Usually have to open rod bore to maintain proper clearance, but not always.

-No, to 1.75 ratio rockers. Stick w/ stock 1.7 rockers for better geometry.

-Yes, use head studs

-No, don't need hollow stem valves. Don't need the higher revs under boosted power. So, not needed for high RPM valve train stability.

-Yes, use Cometic gaskets. Thickness to suit your target SCR w/ those heads.

-Pushrod length will have to be measured after selecting gasket thickness.

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

I wasn't planning on doing anything to the bottom end... what does all this mean?

Like I said, I already have these rockers. I was told that steel was the way to go vs aluminum, and these were the only steel ones I was able to find that were close to 1.7, plus I got a good deal. Is it going to be that detrimental?

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

I picked up some Racetronix 42lb injectors this week, so that's one more thing taken care of. I've also done a little more research and found a ProfProd throttle body that will match up nicely. Still a few questions remaining, though. Anybody have any experience with this cam?

chrisfrost

iTrader: (8)

The stock rockers are steel and are really good units . usually aftermarket 1's are better if they're 4 LS engines . I'm not sure the 1's You have are 4 LS engines ,,,,,,I've never heard of those 1's but maybe they are ,,,,,,search if You're not sure . The prior poster is right though ,,,,,4 reliability and valve-train geometry the stock 1's are the way 2 go unless You're building a pro drag car or something like that .

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

So I'm still not sure on the rockers. It seems like the comp steel units I have, coupled with the right springs, valves, pushrods, etc. should be fine, even though they are 1.75 ratio. If anyone else has anymore info either way, it would be much appreciated. If necessary, I will sell these and get some others, but I'd like to start work in the next couple weeks, so I'll need to have my parts together.

I may also be having second thoughts on the cam. I'm discovering that I can get a custom grind comp for about the same price as the TR, and I would like to go just a little bigger. I'm thinking of maybe a 232/228 .595"/.588" on 114LSA. would this be too big to take light boost on stock bottom?

On an unrelated note, I'm thinking I will stick with the 4L60E for now. I don't do much hard launching, so it should be fine for now. If not, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Regardless, will I need a tq.conv? If so, what stall rating would be appropriate? Like I said, very little launching/strip - mostly street/autox

Thanks again.

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

Got in my ProfProd TB and threw it on the intake to check the fitment, and I've gotta say I'm a little disappointed. It came with the gaskets and spacer, and nothing lined up. I cut off the excess gasket and cleaned it up a bit, but it's still pretty obvious on the inside:



Can't see it very well from this pic, but there's a good millimeter offset between the tb, spacer, and intake. I'll probably take a dremel to it before I spray it with primer/paint, but regardless, it's a little frustrating. Other than that issue, looks pretty solid. I ground off the flat thing on top the front-most runner, so apart from the inside fitment, it's all ready for paint.



I also went ahead and picked up some headers. I wasn't going to since I'm building towards a turbo setup, and I won't need em for that, but I figured the stock manis won't support the flow I'm hoping to put through the rest of it, so... yeah.



Also, I've decided to go ahead and stick with the 1.75 rockers, which are a stock(ish) design, so the stock valve covers should be good as far as I can tell. I'll probably go ahead and paint them along with the intake.

I still need to get pushrods, but I'm not sure on the length. From what I can determine, since the heads are a stock casting, not milled or anything, I'm not decking the block or anything crazy like that, and I'm keeping the stock lifters, it should just be 7.400", am I right?

Other than that stuff, is there anything else I'll need to button up the build? Seals, gaskets, hardware, other miscellaneous stuff? The plan right now is to get it all done this weekend before paint on so hopefully I'm not missing anything important

sepsis

iTrader: (7)

For a boosted application, call the cam company and talk to them about your grind. Tell them what you have and what you're expecting and they should be able to recommend a good cam for what you have and need instead of picking one off the shelf.

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

Oh, I suppose I should also mention that I already took care of the cam, if you didn't see it sitting next to the headers... I did end up going with the comp 232/228 .595/.588 114LSA, but the lift will obviously be a little more due to the 1.75 rockers.

sepsis

iTrader: (7)

My bad, I didn't see it.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Sweet project! I'd like to come check it out some weekend. PM me

wildcamaro

iTrader: (15)

I was just checking your thread out and those are some good flow results for self porting, good job man. Are you in an engineering program? I ask be cause I too took an I/C engine class during my engineering curriculum.

I would not run that intake manifold! Especially when you turbo the car.

Reason being that your intake air charge temp will be sooooo much higher than if you used one of the oem composite stock intakes. An ls6 would be the best choice, but even an ls1/ls2 would be better than that typhoon intake. While the typhoon might flow slightly more than an ls1 intake, it won't matter because your air charge will be soooo much hotter than composite. I have seen this because when I go to the drag strip with my buddy (who has typhoon intake) whenever we get done making a pass I can put both my hands on my ls6 intake, where as you could fry an egg on his manifold. You can't even get your hands close to it because it's so hot! The typhoon does LOOK nice I believe that it ruins volumetric efficiency that the composite intakes are known for. In my opinion and experience the FAST intake is the best money can buy bc it flows more than stock (although you need more rpm to do it) and it is still composite.

Remember I'm not trying to knock that intake, just telling you what I have seen in real world testing. And you took a I/c engine class so you should know that intake temp is every bit as important as flow. Anyway good luck on the build, I'll def check it out if you post it up on here. Later man.

wildcamaro

iTrader: (15)

I forgot to mention the cam also....typically people who are running boost or nitrous use cam durations that favor the exhaust side in order to spool more effieciently. I would think that the cam you picked will still work for your application even though it has more intake duration than exhaust. You shouldn't have a problem with the intake side once you're boosted...that's for sure!

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

Will do! It's actually at Brett's Auto Body up in Princeton now finally getting repainted after the fender-bender back in July ...so if you drive by there and see a BGC with a Raptor hood, that's me!

The porting project was for my ICE class. Is your buddy's car FI/nitrous? Like I said, I'm not too worried about drag passes, and at cruising load, I can't imagine that the intake would get too hot. Plus, once I do go turbo, a good A2W intercooler should be sufficient to keep not only the intake charge cool (enough), but the intake itself as well. Also, even if the intake does heat up quite a bit, at the speed the air is moving through it, there's isn't enough residence time to really heat up the air more than a few degrees.

In other news, rattlecan!

FRiCK

iTrader: (7)

That manifold gets STUPID hot...

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

Well, if that's the case, I may go to a FAST eventually. For now, though, I got a good deal on the Typhoon, and I think it'll be pretty solid. Plus, despite what the crappy cellphone picture looks like, it actually looks really good

brutalis

iTrader: (3)

Good news! The car is finally painted!



Not really relevant, but exciting nonetheless. In other news, I sold my Buell this week... sad to see it go, but it means I should have enough cash to pick up the last few things I need to finish the build. I just wanted to check and make sure I have everything.

What I have:
- Intake manifold - with gaskets, bolts, TB, fuel rails, and all the fuel hoses/fittings
- Fuel injectors - 42lb, with top and bottom o-rings
- Heads - bare
- Cometic MLS head gaskets
- LT's and ORY - with GM MLS gaskets
- Rockers - with bolts and stands
- Valvesprings - with retainers and valvelocks
- Valves - stock from 317 castings
- Cam
- Sparkplugs

Still need to get:
- Valve cover gaskets
- Headstuds
- Pushrods - need to measure first, already have the length checker tool
- Plug wires
- ??????

This is where I need help. Is there anything else I should/need to get? I'm going back and forth on replacing the oil pump and timing chain... I know I probably should, but I'll have to see how the funds are doing when I actually start building. Anything else I'm missing?

Scott02WS6

iTrader: (8)

i understand the funds but def the timing chain and since your doing a cam its right there

TurboBuick6

iTrader: (2)

Sounds cool but I don't think 42lb injectors will be enough. I would think about getting something closer to 60-70lb. Buying unknown valve springs is always a bad idea, they are not that expensive and a cheap spring will cost a lot of money in the end.

Mr. Bungle

iTrader: (13)

Car looks great! I never did get a chance to see it at the auto body shop. Did they do a complete repaint? How much they charge you? Hit me up on PM