Katech C5-R chain - beware of impostors selling a lesser chain at the same price - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Katech C5-R chain - beware of impostors selling a lesser chain at the same price

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-14-2017, 10:29 AM   #1
LS1TECH Sponsor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (19)
 
Katech_Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,939
Default Katech C5-R chain - beware of impostors selling a lesser chain at the same price

It has come to our attention that Hinson Motorsports has been advertising on their website that they have "Partnered with IWIS to offer the Katech C5-R chain at a great price." No such partnership was developed. Per our request, Hinson Motorsports has since removed our Katech name and mention of any partnership from their website. Thank you Hinson. However, they are still advertising the chain as the C5-R. We have verified this to be false.

The C5-R chain has a proprietary link and pin which is exclusive to the C5-R. The only two companies that can buy the C5-R chain are Katech and GM Racing.

The C5-R chain is the gold standard in LS timing chains and has been proven by Katech and GM Racing in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, 24 Hours of Daytona, all ALMS, IMSA, Grand Am, Trans Am, World Challenge, and for that matter, every LS/LT engine built by Katech. The Corvette Racing C5-R, C6.R and current IMSA C7.R all use the C5-R chain.

We verified with IWIS that no C5-R chains have made it through any other distribution channels and have only been shipped to the USA for use by Katech and GM Racing. We are 100% certain the chain that is going to Hinson through a different distribution channel is not the C5-R, but rather an IWIS aftermarket chain. The IWIS aftermarket chain is sold by many vendors. For example, Lingenfelter lists the IWIS aftermarket chain here for $83.95.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/PROD.htm...2#.WMgCuW8rKM8

Lingenfelter also sells the Katech C5-R chain for $149.99

http://www.lingenfelter.com/PROD.htm...ode=HME-G68V-2

So, Hinson Motorsports is buying the IWIS aftermarket chain which you can get for $83.95 and marking it up to $149.99 and calling it the C5-R chain.

We have informed Hinson Motorsports of this misrepresentation and given them several weeks to correct the problem, but have only removed the Katech name from their website. So, we feel it is our duty to inform the public that what you are purchasing from Hinson is not truly the Katech C5-R chain.

Also, Hinson has been selling these chains to Summit Racing who has been selling them as the C5-R, which is incorrect. Summit has also agreed to take our name off their listing. Thank you Summit.

Hinson has also been selling a chain called the C7.R chain, which is also misleading. The actual C7.R Corvette that races in the IMSA United Sportscar Series uses the Katech/GM Racing C5-R chain. All Corvette Racing cars have used that chain since the early 2000s. Hinson has taken the the IWIS aftermarket chain, made a seamless roller version and called it the C7.R. A change we feel is unnecessary, since a roller has never failed in thousands of chains.

So, if you're interested in purchasing a C5-R chain and don't want an IWIS aftermarket chain for the C5-R price, I would recommend either buying it directly from our website, or one of the known vendors of Katech C5-R chains listed below.

http://store.katechengines.com/c5-r-...chain-p30.aspx

Brian Tooley Racing
Lingenfelter
Scoggin Dickey
Jannetty Racing
Weapon X Motorsports
East Coast Supercharging
Aikman Performance
McCluskey Chevrolet
Abel Chevrolet
Race Proven Motorsports
JDP Performance
Cordes Performance
Powertech Performance
Tick Performance
Texas Speed
Coolchevy Race Parts (Germany)
Excelsior Motorsports
Wong's Performance
Tune Time Performance
Doug Rippie Motorsports
Speed Inc
Corvette Central
Baker Engineering
Katech_Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 12:18 PM   #2
Super Hulk Smash
iTrader: (7)
 
JakeFusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 9,784
Default

Jason, is the Cloyes Chain "Z" upgrade the C5R chain or an aftermarket version?

I know some folks would like the adjustability of billet timing gears, and Cloyes offers some of the best for that. I've always assumed their "Z" chain was the C5R chain from you. Can you elaborate?

Thanks
JakeFusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 12:19 PM   #3
LS1TECH Sponsor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (19)
 
Katech_Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
Jason, is the Cloyes Chain "Z" upgrade the C5R chain or an aftermarket version?

I know some folks would like the adjustability of billet timing gears, and Cloyes offers some of the best for that. I've always assumed their "Z" chain was the C5R chain from you. Can you elaborate?

Thanks
It's not the C5-R. Cloyes is not buying the C5-R chain from us. I suspect it is also the IWIS aftermarket chain.
Katech_Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 12:39 PM   #4
Super Hulk Smash
iTrader: (7)
 
JakeFusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 9,784
Default

Okay, good to know. They def upcharge for it...
JakeFusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 03:48 PM   #5
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Mcleansville, NC
Posts: 574
Default

I have used both the C5-R and the IWIS with no issues in numerous customer builds, but not directly from Hinson. You just can't beat the quality of the C5-R though!

Katech has the reputation in this industry that when they make a statement like this, you can take it to the bank. The IWIS chain is a good chain at 85.00 bucks or so, but not at 150 dollars. If you're going to spend that kind of coin on a timing chain buy the real thing, a C5-R.
Martin Smallwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 08:45 PM   #6
Teching In
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Jason,

I have one of the Hinson "C7R" chains on a motor I am building (377CI with goal of 500rwhp) I bought it thinking it was the best OEM backed chain. What failure rates and modes are you seeing with the IWIS chain (if that's what this is). Should I tear the front of my motor apart and swap chains? For $150 I probably know the answer already. Uhg.
RollingDumpster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 09:26 PM   #7
That's MISTER MODERATOR
iTrader: (9)
 
Paul Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,343
Default

Thank you Jason for bringing this to light.
Paul Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 09:52 PM   #8
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 101
Default

I just bought one, glad to see Wong's Performance on the list.
y2keglide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 07:44 AM   #9
LS1TECH Sponsor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (19)
 
Katech_Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingDumpster View Post
Jason,

I have one of the Hinson "C7R" chains on a motor I am building (377CI with goal of 500rwhp) I bought it thinking it was the best OEM backed chain. What failure rates and modes are you seeing with the IWIS chain (if that's what this is). Should I tear the front of my motor apart and swap chains? For $150 I probably know the answer already. Uhg.
We never use the IWIS aftermarket chain, so I can't comment on it's durability. We always use the C5-R race chain.
Katech_Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 06:28 AM   #10
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (13)
 
drain89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Right across the river from Huntington, WV
Posts: 678
Default

Not surprising from Hinson considering their markup on rebranded/black anodized shifters that are identical to the McLeod version you can buy from other vendors on here for over $100 less.
drain89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 07:10 AM   #11
Teching In
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Because I didn't want to take any chances I went ahead and ordered the Katech C5R chain from one of the vendors Jason listed in his above post. I tore the front of the motor apart and then looked at the "Hinson C7R" chain I had already installed. I cannot tell the difference between the two. They both have the identical JWIS markings on each link and the tooling marks on the dowels look identical. Also, measurements from a sample of links on each yielded the same results. What am I missing? Is the difference metallurgical, slack tolerance? If they both come from JWIS (IWIS), what separates the two? From additional reading, it appears that anything IWIS makes is also very durable and strong. Despite the distribution and marketing problems, I can't see the difference in these chains on face value alone.

Pic of Hinson C7R chain.

RollingDumpster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 07:19 AM   #12
LS1TECH Sponsor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (19)
 
Katech_Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingDumpster View Post
Because I didn't want to take any chances I went ahead and ordered the Katech C5R chain from one of the vendors Jason listed in his above post. I tore the front of the motor apart and then looked at the "Hinson C7R" chain I had already installed. I cannot tell the difference between the two. They both have the identical JWIS markings on each link and the tooling marks on the dowels look identical. Also, measurements from a sample of links on each yielded the same results. What am I missing? Is the difference metallurgical, slack tolerance? If they both come from JWIS (IWIS), what separates the two? From additional reading, it appears that anything IWIS makes is also very durable and strong. Despite the distribution and marketing problems, I can't see the difference in these chains on face value alone.

Pic of Hinson C7R chain.
The C5-R chain has proprietary links and pin coating process not found on the IWIS aftermarket chain.
Katech_Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 07:33 AM   #13
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
vettenuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Little Rhody
Posts: 7,822
Default

I corresponded directly with JWIS (IWIS) several years ago. They actually make several different quality chains that are the same 3/8" pitch and will fit the LS1 so looks can be deceiving. The one Katech uses is at the top of the heap. I also corresponded with someone at Cloyes who worked with Katech and received similar information.
vettenuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:22 AM   #14
Teching In
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katech_Jason View Post
The C5-R chain has proprietary links and pin coating process not found on the IWIS aftermarket chain.
Now this makes sense. Looks like I will be tearing it apart after all.

Thanks Jason, this must be a huge hassle for you.
RollingDumpster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:30 AM   #15
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Under a rock
Posts: 1,648
Default

Hinson was one of the early suppliers of RX7 swap kits along with Granny's Speed shop. Hinson has historically ALWAYS been a less than reputable vendor. The only reason RX7 swap folks shop there is one or two items no one else makes. They deal with the sub par quality and outrageous shipping prices out of necessity. Let alone whether or not they even ship your item. It's beyond me how on earth they are still in business.

I suppose it would be appropriate if they said something like it's based off the Katech chain but that's a lot of work.
Exidous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:36 AM   #16
Teching In
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exidous View Post
Hinson was one of the early suppliers of RX7 swap kits along with Granny's Speed shop. Hinson has historically ALWAYS been a less than reputable vendor. The only reason RX7 swap folks shop there is one or two items no one else makes. They deal with the sub par quality and outrageous shipping prices out of necessity. Let alone whether or not they even ship your item. It's beyond me how on earth they are still in business.

I suppose it would be appropriate if they said something like it's based off the Katech chain but that's a lot of work.
Interesting. I have had the opposite experience. I have ordered lots of stuff from them (some from Amazon where they were the seller) and my items always came in on time (pistons, ARP bolts, etc). I received free shipping on most of my orders as well.
RollingDumpster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 09:49 AM   #17
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Under a rock
Posts: 1,648
Default

I have not ordered from them in a while. Probably around 5 years now. Perhaps they've gotten a few things figured out.
Exidous is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Katech C5-R chain - beware of impostors selling a lesser chain at the same price. Katech_Jason Generation V Internal Engine 0 03-14-2017 10:30 AM
Cam Motion Now Sells the Hinson C7R Chain CAMMOTION PERF Sponsor Sales & Specials 1 08-25-2015 11:10 AM
HINSON C7-R Seamless Timing Chain - The Strongest Single Row Chain Available! HINSON Motorsports Generation IV Internal Engine 10 08-07-2015 11:04 AM
The Strongest Single Roller Timing Chain Available - HINSON C7-R HINSON Motorsports Generation IV Internal Engine 29 06-01-2015 09:24 AM
BEWARE OF IMMITATORS - cheaper timing chains are being sold as the C5-R Katech_Jason Generation IV Internal Engine 48 01-17-2009 12:40 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send