Cost to install forged short block
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
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From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Cost to install forged short block Im trying to get an idea on expected costs for a build im planning. I'd like to have a forged motor that can reliably handle 15 pounds of boost from a procharger. I was thinking the cheapest way to do this would be to go with a gen 3 iron block 370. My car is an 04 ls1 gto so if I went with a gen 3 block and 24t crank it would make the easiest swap.
Not including the cost of the shortblock and reusing everything possible off my current ls1 plus new gaskets and fasteners what could I expect to pay a shop in labor to do the swap? I'm willing to go with a different cam and better heads if my budget allows, but I'm looking to get an idea of bare minimum labor cost on swapping a forged short block in.
Not including the cost of the shortblock and reusing everything possible off my current ls1 plus new gaskets and fasteners what could I expect to pay a shop in labor to do the swap? I'm willing to go with a different cam and better heads if my budget allows, but I'm looking to get an idea of bare minimum labor cost on swapping a forged short block in.
I will try a less verbose reply better tailored to the question.
To build short block into a long block labor only $450 to $600.
Removing an old engine and installing a newly assembled long block. Labor is typically $1200 to $1800 for an engine swap. $1500 being pretty typical.
Install Procharger and tune $1000 to $2000 depending on who & where, guessing I have no idea bases on first hand experience.
About $3500 in labor at typical shop.
To build short block into a long block labor only $450 to $600.
Removing an old engine and installing a newly assembled long block. Labor is typically $1200 to $1800 for an engine swap. $1500 being pretty typical.
Install Procharger and tune $1000 to $2000 depending on who & where, guessing I have no idea bases on first hand experience.
About $3500 in labor at typical shop.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; Jul 25, 2017 at 10:26 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Maybe WS6 Store will see your question and responding. WS6 Store / RPM Speed is a full service shop there in Iowa. They are well know for great customer service.
Here's my rough estimate... the motor estimates are in the ball park, I'm doing a build currently. I'm guessing on Procharger and didn't include items like radiator, fan, transmission upgrades, fuel system etc
Big power will at least need a new fuel pump suited to 600 hp, Racetronix $350 at least. Install $250 to $400 or free if you do it.
Forged short block probably $3500 to $5000 depending on whatlevel of quality parts you want in the engine.
Heads - low end $1,000 ( ported stock castings) to $3500 ( aftermarket) depending on the heads
Cam - $375 to $475 depending on if it's a shelf grind or custom
Intake & TB - LS1 stock $100, LS6 $400, Fast intake with NW TB $1200
Headers & Y pipe $250 used, $500 Speed Engineering, $1500 Kook's
Balancer stock $0, to $250 aftermarket to $475 for an ATI
Lifters, $100 LS7 to $1400 Isky Red top or Black Mamba's etc
Fuel injectors - say $400 could be less or more
Don't forget the boring stuff, water pump, gaskets, timing chain, push rods, oil pump, fluids, plugs, wires etc say $1000
Assembly of short block $450 to $750 depending on who and where.
Removing an old engine and installing a new engine labor is typically $1200 to $1800 with $1500 being pretty typical.
Procharger - I have no Idea $4500 used to $6500 new?
Install Procharger and tune $1000 to $2000 depending on who & where, guessing I have no idea.
Add 20% to cover stuff you will decide to add while doing project and to fix issues that always come up.
Junkyard 5.3 and eBay turbo is the cheap forced induction set from what I've read. The forced induction forum on this site can help with details.
Here's my rough estimate... the motor estimates are in the ball park, I'm doing a build currently. I'm guessing on Procharger and didn't include items like radiator, fan, transmission upgrades, fuel system etc
Big power will at least need a new fuel pump suited to 600 hp, Racetronix $350 at least. Install $250 to $400 or free if you do it.
Forged short block probably $3500 to $5000 depending on whatlevel of quality parts you want in the engine.
Heads - low end $1,000 ( ported stock castings) to $3500 ( aftermarket) depending on the heads
Cam - $375 to $475 depending on if it's a shelf grind or custom
Intake & TB - LS1 stock $100, LS6 $400, Fast intake with NW TB $1200
Headers & Y pipe $250 used, $500 Speed Engineering, $1500 Kook's
Balancer stock $0, to $250 aftermarket to $475 for an ATI
Lifters, $100 LS7 to $1400 Isky Red top or Black Mamba's etc
Fuel injectors - say $400 could be less or more
Don't forget the boring stuff, water pump, gaskets, timing chain, push rods, oil pump, fluids, plugs, wires etc say $1000
Assembly of short block $450 to $750 depending on who and where.
Removing an old engine and installing a new engine labor is typically $1200 to $1800 with $1500 being pretty typical.
Procharger - I have no Idea $4500 used to $6500 new?
Install Procharger and tune $1000 to $2000 depending on who & where, guessing I have no idea.
Add 20% to cover stuff you will decide to add while doing project and to fix issues that always come up.
Junkyard 5.3 and eBay turbo is the cheap forced induction set from what I've read. The forced induction forum on this site can help with details.
In other words I would be showing up with a running car and a new short block they would have to go from there. I would expect that to be a lot of labor cost I'm just curious of a ball park figure so I can budget accordingly. Or they could build the current motor with forged rods and pistons with all arp fasteners. Again that would be a lot of labor costs. Just curious what a ball park figure would be.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
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From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
TECH Regular
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You don't need a forged shortblock to run only 15lb's of boost. Spend 280 bucks on a snow methanol kit and use that with what you have that is running, lol....
Why go forged when the stock internals are good to 800ish HP??
Why go forged when the stock internals are good to 800ish HP??
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Im actually planning to go E85. While it's only a weekend toy I'm not interested in just blowing it up and possibly hurting more than just the short block. I may consider running 8 to 10 psi on the stock motor, but certainly not more than that. While some may hold up at 800 rwhp for a little while that certainly isn't the norm.
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Im actually planning to go E85. While it's only a weekend toy I'm not interested in just blowing it up and possibly hurting more than just the short block. I may consider running 8 to 10 psi on the stock motor, but certainly not more than that. While some may hold up at 800 rwhp for a little while that certainly isn't the norm.
Im actually planning to go E85. While it's only a weekend toy I'm not interested in just blowing it up and possibly hurting more than just the short block. I may consider running 8 to 10 psi on the stock motor, but certainly not more than that. While some may hold up at 800 rwhp for a little while that certainly isn't the norm.
Many times I see members do more harm than good going with a "forged motor". Finding a machine shop that can do a better job than GM at machining and final fitment is rare. Usually more harm than good is done in my experience. Not to mention the added down time and cost of having an aftermarket long/short block setup.
You can EASILY and reliably run 15lbs on ANY bone stock LS engine if it's tuned properly. Then figure a replacement bone stock long block will set you back $500-1000 and can be dropped in very quickly with no machine work if needed.
You don't even need to pull the heads off to run 15lbs. Install a mild cam and valve springs and bolt your blower on... 15lbs is nothing on E85 if setup properly.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
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From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
LOL ok... TONS of people running 15 psi on SBE's , check out the forced induction section. I am not talking about lasting for alittle while either. If you have a half decent tuner then it should be fine. I believe the SBE record is under 8 seconds 1/4mile now and went over 150 passes before a refresh.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
This really isn't the case... esp with E85.
Many times I see members do more harm than good going with a "forged motor". Finding a machine shop that can do a better job than GM at machining and final fitment is rare. Usually more harm than good is done in my experience. Not to mention the added down time and cost of having an aftermarket long/short block setup.
You can EASILY and reliably run 15lbs on ANY bone stock LS engine if it's tuned properly. Then figure a replacement bone stock long block will set you back $500-1000 and can be dropped in very quickly with no machine work if needed.
You don't even need to pull the heads off to run 15lbs. Install a mild cam and valve springs and bolt your blower on... 15lbs is nothing on E85 if setup properly.
Many times I see members do more harm than good going with a "forged motor". Finding a machine shop that can do a better job than GM at machining and final fitment is rare. Usually more harm than good is done in my experience. Not to mention the added down time and cost of having an aftermarket long/short block setup.
You can EASILY and reliably run 15lbs on ANY bone stock LS engine if it's tuned properly. Then figure a replacement bone stock long block will set you back $500-1000 and can be dropped in very quickly with no machine work if needed.
You don't even need to pull the heads off to run 15lbs. Install a mild cam and valve springs and bolt your blower on... 15lbs is nothing on E85 if setup properly.
Nothing wrong with a built engine, if it’s in your budget go for it. I was just mentioning that it’s not needed with E85 if your goal is 15lbs. Esp. with the typical “15 psi” blower kit not making much boost till the upper RPM range anyway.
8 seconds at 150+ isn’t done with the typical 15lb bolt-on blower kit. There are MANY ls1’s running over 15lbs reliably. There is no such thing as a reliable race car IMO. Somethings going to go wrong eventually, built motor or not. I’d rather replace bone stock SBE’s than “built” engines.
If the main goal is to run 15lbs on a blower, then being able to drop in another SBE quick an easy makes the choice a no brainer to me.
8 seconds at 150+ isn’t done with the typical 15lb bolt-on blower kit. There are MANY ls1’s running over 15lbs reliably. There is no such thing as a reliable race car IMO. Somethings going to go wrong eventually, built motor or not. I’d rather replace bone stock SBE’s than “built” engines.
If the main goal is to run 15lbs on a blower, then being able to drop in another SBE quick an easy makes the choice a no brainer to me.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Nothing wrong with a built engine, if it’s in your budget go for it. I was just mentioning that it’s not needed with E85 if your goal is 15lbs. Esp. with the typical “15 psi” blower kit not making much boost till the upper RPM range anyway.
8 seconds at 150+ isn’t done with the typical 15lb bolt-on blower kit. There are MANY ls1’s running over 15lbs reliably. There is no such thing as a reliable race car IMO. Somethings going to go wrong eventually, built motor or not. I’d rather replace bone stock SBE’s than “built” engines.
If the main goal is to run 15lbs on a blower, then being able to drop in another SBE quick an easy makes the choice a no brainer to me.
8 seconds at 150+ isn’t done with the typical 15lb bolt-on blower kit. There are MANY ls1’s running over 15lbs reliably. There is no such thing as a reliable race car IMO. Somethings going to go wrong eventually, built motor or not. I’d rather replace bone stock SBE’s than “built” engines.
If the main goal is to run 15lbs on a blower, then being able to drop in another SBE quick an easy makes the choice a no brainer to me.
I’d look for a cheap gen4 short or long block. 5.3/4.8 doesn’t’ matter either will make a ton of power. Then have that sitting on the side. You can rev the 4.8 higher which is where a blower makes its power anyway, so they really aren’t a bad option if you gear them where they need to be.
Personally I wouldn’t run anything smaller than the F1A either way. Depending on the RPM the smallest pulley setup should get you in a lowish boost range. They make restrictor plates that reduce the boost/performance on them if you want to start out at lower boost levels.
Unless you spend big bucks on the 347’s top end, you aren’t going to make 700whp on 15lbs with a blower. Best you can do is double the NA hp at the crank per 15-16lbs or so. With the amount of additional power required to turn a blower that number goes down. Then factor in drive train losses for WHP and it drops again. You’d need to have a VERY healthy NA motor to hit 700whp at 15lbs. It can be done, just not cost effective IMO. Making power with boost is cheap, esp. with a turbo.
Have you looked into a turbo? Makes 10x more sense looking at cost VS performance. But I get it’s not for everyone.
As an example of what an SBE can do look at this...
119 passes and most in the 7 second range at over 8k rpm. Now he has an SBE 4.8 in it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...l-going-3.html
Personally I wouldn’t run anything smaller than the F1A either way. Depending on the RPM the smallest pulley setup should get you in a lowish boost range. They make restrictor plates that reduce the boost/performance on them if you want to start out at lower boost levels.
Unless you spend big bucks on the 347’s top end, you aren’t going to make 700whp on 15lbs with a blower. Best you can do is double the NA hp at the crank per 15-16lbs or so. With the amount of additional power required to turn a blower that number goes down. Then factor in drive train losses for WHP and it drops again. You’d need to have a VERY healthy NA motor to hit 700whp at 15lbs. It can be done, just not cost effective IMO. Making power with boost is cheap, esp. with a turbo.
Have you looked into a turbo? Makes 10x more sense looking at cost VS performance. But I get it’s not for everyone.
As an example of what an SBE can do look at this...
119 passes and most in the 7 second range at over 8k rpm. Now he has an SBE 4.8 in it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...l-going-3.html
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
I’d look for a cheap gen4 short or long block. 5.3/4.8 doesn’t’ matter either will make a ton of power. Then have that sitting on the side. You can rev the 4.8 higher which is where a blower makes its power anyway, so they really aren’t a bad option if you gear them where they need to be.
Personally I wouldn’t run anything smaller than the F1A either way. Depending on the RPM the smallest pulley setup should get you in a lowish boost range. They make restrictor plates that reduce the boost/performance on them if you want to start out at lower boost levels.
Unless you spend big bucks on the 347’s top end, you aren’t going to make 700whp on 15lbs with a blower. Best you can do is double the NA hp at the crank per 15-16lbs or so. With the amount of additional power required to turn a blower that number goes down. Then factor in drive train losses for WHP and it drops again. You’d need to have a VERY healthy NA motor to hit 700whp at 15lbs. It can be done, just not cost effective IMO. Making power with boost is cheap, esp. with a turbo.
Have you looked into a turbo? Makes 10x more sense looking at cost VS performance. But I get it’s not for everyone.
As an example of what an SBE can do look at this...
119 passes and most in the 7 second range at over 8k rpm. Now he has an SBE 4.8 in it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...l-going-3.html
Personally I wouldn’t run anything smaller than the F1A either way. Depending on the RPM the smallest pulley setup should get you in a lowish boost range. They make restrictor plates that reduce the boost/performance on them if you want to start out at lower boost levels.
Unless you spend big bucks on the 347’s top end, you aren’t going to make 700whp on 15lbs with a blower. Best you can do is double the NA hp at the crank per 15-16lbs or so. With the amount of additional power required to turn a blower that number goes down. Then factor in drive train losses for WHP and it drops again. You’d need to have a VERY healthy NA motor to hit 700whp at 15lbs. It can be done, just not cost effective IMO. Making power with boost is cheap, esp. with a turbo.
Have you looked into a turbo? Makes 10x more sense looking at cost VS performance. But I get it’s not for everyone.
As an example of what an SBE can do look at this...
119 passes and most in the 7 second range at over 8k rpm. Now he has an SBE 4.8 in it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...l-going-3.html
Spend more of my budget on a better trans and driveline components and run the sbe as long as I can. Once it goes decide if I want to build a motor at that time or get a junk yard motor so I'm back in the game for a while. I got to admit that other than the down time I wouldn't feel any pain at all losing a sbe, but losing a $5000+ short block hurts I've been there before. That motor lasted 100+ passes NA plus daily driven for a year, then 100+ passes on a 150 shot, then a few passes on 200 before a bad tune melted a piston.
Honestly I know jack **** about turbos or tuning. That is why I wanted to go procharger. They make a nice kit for the GTO and it seems better for me and my goals. If I wanted 900+ rwhp it probably wouldn't be the best choice.
edit to add: Motor currently has just under 29,000 miles on it. I've owned it since the end of March. I put about 2000 miles on it. Most of that was driving home from near Chicago to pick it up then back and forth to Speed Inc to get the cam/converter install and tune. I did the rear suspension myself springs/adjustable shocks, sway bar, bushings, and 15" bogarts with drag radials.
Bolt on kits are nice, but you pay for the convenience. Bolt on turbo kits can also be big bucks but really aren’t any different/harder to tune than a blower setup IMO.
You can pick up a $640 shipped S475 turbo and make a turbo kit pretty darn cheap. Or you can buy a kit that uses factory exhaust manifolds from someone likte these guys and it’s still cheaper than the average “bolt on” blower kit. Even with the stock cam you could make 600-700whp pretty easily on an ls1.
http://www.kbracing.net/about.html
You can pick up a $640 shipped S475 turbo and make a turbo kit pretty darn cheap. Or you can buy a kit that uses factory exhaust manifolds from someone likte these guys and it’s still cheaper than the average “bolt on” blower kit. Even with the stock cam you could make 600-700whp pretty easily on an ls1.
http://www.kbracing.net/about.html
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 671
From: Oskaloosa, Iowa
Bolt on kits are nice, but you pay for the convenience. Bolt on turbo kits can also be big bucks but really aren’t any different/harder to tune than a blower setup IMO.
You can pick up a $640 shipped S475 turbo and make a turbo kit pretty darn cheap. Or you can buy a kit that uses factory exhaust manifolds from someone likte these guys and it’s still cheaper than the average “bolt on” blower kit. Even with the stock cam you could make 600-700whp pretty easily on an ls1.
http://www.kbracing.net/about.html
You can pick up a $640 shipped S475 turbo and make a turbo kit pretty darn cheap. Or you can buy a kit that uses factory exhaust manifolds from someone likte these guys and it’s still cheaper than the average “bolt on” blower kit. Even with the stock cam you could make 600-700whp pretty easily on an ls1.
http://www.kbracing.net/about.html
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Joined: Oct 2016
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From: PDX-OR-USA
Just based on some fiddling on a friends car,, once configured and installed I'd pull his turbo engine 3 times vs 1 time with the Blower and longtubes.. at least on his, the bolts on the headers are painful, with high log manifolds of the turbo you leave them on and hoist the whole thing,, no 4 hours on my back turning header bolt 2 degrees at a time to get them off..
His setup isn't respecting the body work(Has a couple fender cuts.. ) so the whole turbo setup comes out with the engine, except for the the turbo itself, Form a overall installation perspective the blower was a bout a wash vs the turbo the for installing, On both the intercooler piping is the painful part.
His setup isn't respecting the body work(Has a couple fender cuts.. ) so the whole turbo setup comes out with the engine, except for the the turbo itself, Form a overall installation perspective the blower was a bout a wash vs the turbo the for installing, On both the intercooler piping is the painful part.