Ls1 H/C/I install complete....looking for help/feedback
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
Of the two AKT options, I think the block makes more sense if I do a lot of the work myself. It's still just OE internals though so not sure I gain a ton over rebuilding the ls1 from a reliabilty standpoint??
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 179
From: Virginia
Stock LS3 or LS7 heads are actually pretty tough to beat. As long as you go 4” bore either can work. Note on LS7 heads though, the ports are different, so you have to get the correct intake in that application. I would of gone that route if I hadn’t already bought an LS3 compatible intake with the rectangle ports. I also kick myself in the *** for not snagging a pair of LS7 heads that were blemished during a c&c job. Could of got them for $1300, complete. I would of found a use for the eventuality lol.
Uhg....ya, really hope that's not the case. He's a good dude but clearly busy with some high end projects and feel like his focus may be elsewhere. Don't know any other tuners nearby (northeast Indiana) but have started to put some feelers out. Really feel like this should be a solid setup with good driveability if I can just get everything dialed in. Was a long time waiting so extra painful now that it's finally done.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
Sorry to hear about your issues. Seen you were located close to me and wondered if you heard of Bumper Wilson? They seem like good guys that do full LS/LT builds and tuning. Haven't used them personally as I do most my own tuning but I know guys that have and praise their work. They are located on the East side of Fort Wayne.
Going to follow-up with him on the potential build routes and get his feedback. Even if I end up doing quite a bit of the work myself, he will in all likelihood be the guy doing the finishing touches/tuning. Highly recommend him for anyone in need of LS work in the area!
This definitely crossed my mind as well with time not being a constraint anymore. Just wasnt sure how much gain I'd really see from dropping another $2k+ on a fresh set of heads. Intake was another consideration as well. Decided on just going with the ls6 and ported stock TB during the initial build as I just couldn't justify jumping to a FAST for the price and associated gains. Probably all areas I'll re-access though depending on which way I go with the build.
Of the two AKT options, I think the block makes more sense if I do a lot of the work myself. It's still just OE internals though so not sure I gain a ton over rebuilding the ls1 from a reliabilty standpoint??
Of the two AKT options, I think the block makes more sense if I do a lot of the work myself. It's still just OE internals though so not sure I gain a ton over rebuilding the ls1 from a reliabilty standpoint??
Have a great weekend
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 135
Likes: 12
Read through this thread briefly, shop that initially build and tuned the car sounds like a straight up hack. Sounds like you still haven't found someone worth a damn when it comes to tuning either, particularly the A4.
FWIW tuning the A4 isn't that difficult. I couldn't find anyone decent so I did mine myself using the BlueCat tool and then street drove it to dial things in more. I did a good bit of reading on here before attempting. Car was good enough that when I had it fully tuned by Jeremy Formato this week he didn't have to change a whole hell of a lot in the trans tune.
FWIW tuning the A4 isn't that difficult. I couldn't find anyone decent so I did mine myself using the BlueCat tool and then street drove it to dial things in more. I did a good bit of reading on here before attempting. Car was good enough that when I had it fully tuned by Jeremy Formato this week he didn't have to change a whole hell of a lot in the trans tune.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
From what I have seen, read upon and videos,, stock internals will easily hold 600 rwhp on a 6l builf. Like you said though, sit down and see if you're going to do a DD or a track orientated car. I'm my experience brother 500-550 rwhp is more then enough for street use. Anything above that you need to start making money on who your racing build.
Have a great weekend
Have a great weekend
Car will never be a dedicated track car, just a fun seasonal driver with the occasional track hit so would be MORE than happy with 500 rwhp! I was sitting between 400-420 at the wheels with the ls1 build so if I could potentially gain another 50 or so with a resonable lq9 build I think I'd be pretty happy! I'm still on the stock 10-bolt so will be on borrowed time I'm sure. Was already thinking that may be worth investing in now vs going with a new head setup but also want to make the most out of the motor before it goes in!
Thanks everyone!!
For the sake of time and $. I would keep those BOLD items. Just top it off with a Fast 102 and put a good cam in it. No need in getting different heads imo. unless you just have $ to throw away or they are damaged. Call commotion or TSP and tell them your desires for the car and current setup and they "should" direct you to a good cam. id also make sure it has a good flowing exhaust and throw a under drive pulley on it while you are there.
Ls6 Intake/gaskets, TSP Tv2 cam, PRC Stage 2.5 Ls6 heads (62cc), .660 dual springs w/ Ti retainers, GM balancer bolt, Ls7 lifters, hardened pushrods, TSP rocker arm trunnion upgrade, Ls2 timing chain, Melling HP oil pump, ARP head bolts and GM head gaskets, NKG TR6 plugs, Holley Centerbolt Valvecovers, direct coil mount, ARP coil bolts, Holley EFI Ls3 Coil Wires, Ls3 Coils (D510c), spark plug wires (Taylor 78003), oil pan gasket
Ls6 Intake/gaskets, TSP Tv2 cam, PRC Stage 2.5 Ls6 heads (62cc), .660 dual springs w/ Ti retainers, GM balancer bolt, Ls7 lifters, hardened pushrods, TSP rocker arm trunnion upgrade, Ls2 timing chain, Melling HP oil pump, ARP head bolts and GM head gaskets, NKG TR6 plugs, Holley Centerbolt Valvecovers, direct coil mount, ARP coil bolts, Holley EFI Ls3 Coil Wires, Ls3 Coils (D510c), spark plug wires (Taylor 78003), oil pan gasket
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Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
For the sake of time and $. I would keep those BOLD items. Just top it off with a Fast 102 and put a good cam in it. No need in getting different heads imo. unless you just have $ to throw away or they are damaged. Call commotion or TSP and tell them your desires for the car and current setup and they "should" direct you to a good cam. id also make sure it has a good flowing exhaust and throw a under drive pulley on it while you are there.
Ls6 Intake/gaskets, TSP Tv2 cam, PRC Stage 2.5 Ls6 heads (62cc), .660 dual springs w/ Ti retainers, GM balancer bolt, Ls7 lifters, hardened pushrods, TSP rocker arm trunnion upgrade, Ls2 timing chain, Melling HP oil pump, ARP head bolts and GM head gaskets, NKG TR6 plugs, Holley Centerbolt Valvecovers, direct coil mount, ARP coil bolts, Holley EFI Ls3 Coil Wires, Ls3 Coils (D510c), spark plug wires (Taylor 78003), oil pan gasket
Ls6 Intake/gaskets, TSP Tv2 cam, PRC Stage 2.5 Ls6 heads (62cc), .660 dual springs w/ Ti retainers, GM balancer bolt, Ls7 lifters, hardened pushrods, TSP rocker arm trunnion upgrade, Ls2 timing chain, Melling HP oil pump, ARP head bolts and GM head gaskets, NKG TR6 plugs, Holley Centerbolt Valvecovers, direct coil mount, ARP coil bolts, Holley EFI Ls3 Coil Wires, Ls3 Coils (D510c), spark plug wires (Taylor 78003), oil pan gasket
Far as your power output it will be almost identical to the 5.7 unless you(A) bump compression (B)larger cam (C) Add F.A.S.T or (D) All the above
That rear-end will be fine unless you start launching it at the track a lot.
That rear-end will be fine unless you start launching it at the track a lot.
At this point, leaning towards going the lq9 shortblock route and pretty much just swapping everything over for now, including the torquer v2 cam. Will likely have the "built" trans gone through while its out and possibly re-stall the converter on account of the slightly higher torque of the lq9. Figure those are both areas where I might be better served spending some $ vs. all new H/C/I setup. I'm still on the stock 10 bolt with 3.23s as well so there's that too!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
Based on my pricing for the lq9 shortblock, I'm almost certain it would be less money than rebuilding the ls1 but Im sure that could vary based on the condition of the motor once I pull it. I'm ASSUMING at this point that the heads are still good.
My L76 wasn't hurt when I bought the short block. I tore it down and rebuilt it for piece of mind. my machine shop didn't charge me much at all to install new cam bearings,hone, rings & assemble. I bought new main and rod bearings along with ARP Mains and Rod bolts. I might have 700 in everything. if you know of a good machine shop. they should be able to easily hone and put all new bearings, rings etc back in at a decent price.
Ya...would love to gain some additional power but also really conscious of dropping a bunch of additional $ at this point. Especially considering I really never got a chance to experience the Ls1 build to its full potential. Without really beefing up internals on either the lq9 or ls1 rebuild to enable spinning it up a lot higher, it doesnt seem like I would see a ton of benefit for the money spent even if I did go with some really nice heads and beefier cam....maybe 30-40 rwhp??
Based on my pricing for the lq9 shortblock, I'm almost certain it would be less money than rebuilding the ls1 but Im sure that could vary based on the condition of the motor once I pull it. I'm ASSUMING at this point that the heads are still good.
Based on my pricing for the lq9 shortblock, I'm almost certain it would be less money than rebuilding the ls1 but Im sure that could vary based on the condition of the motor once I pull it. I'm ASSUMING at this point that the heads are still good.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
My L76 wasn't hurt when I bought the short block. I tore it down and rebuilt it for piece of mind. my machine shop didn't charge me much at all to install new cam bearings,hone, rings & assemble. I bought new main and rod bearings along with ARP Mains and Rod bolts. I might have 700 in everything. if you know of a good machine shop. they should be able to easily hone and put all new bearings, rings etc back in at a decent price.
If cost is apples to apples doing the rebuild vs. Lq9 I'm thinking the 6.0 maybe provides some more potential down the road if I ever wanted to bore. Maybe slightly better performance in the short term with the added torque curve??
If cost is apples to apples. it would be a no brainer to go with the 6.0. I'm not sure where your located but I don't see it costing a lot for a rebuild as long as you buy the parts and take them to the machine shop. less chance of them "marking them up" in my opinion. Some machinist don't like that. but it is, what it is.
Oh wow, I was guestimating $1500+ depending on what everything looked like once torn down so I may do some calling around to see if I can get some better ideas. Even going the lq9 route I had considered rebuilding the ls1 over time doing as much myself as possible. Ive got the accompanying stock trans to go with so thought I might be able to sell the couple to potentially recoup some cost down the road. Or just hold onto it for another 7yrs till my son gets his license! 😉
If cost is apples to apples doing the rebuild vs. Lq9 I'm thinking the 6.0 maybe provides some more potential down the road if I ever wanted to bore. Maybe slightly better performance in the short term with the added torque curve??
If cost is apples to apples doing the rebuild vs. Lq9 I'm thinking the 6.0 maybe provides some more potential down the road if I ever wanted to bore. Maybe slightly better performance in the short term with the added torque curve??
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
Got the car towed over to the shop I'll be working in so first step complete!
I did speak to the guy Ive been working with at ATK yesterday though and he provided some more feedback for if I do end up going the 6.0 shortblock route. I was originally thinking lq9 vs 4 due to the slight power advantages but said I would need to go with the dished piston lq4 based in my cam specs to avoid clearance issues. My ls6 heads were machined to 62cc for the ls1 build so, I believe, that might put me at roughly a 10.5.1 C/R with stock gasket depending on how much the motor was decked. Just curious if that sounds accurate? Hate to sacrifice power going this route so maybe there's potential to go slightly thinner in gasket to bump that up a touch? Im not sure at what point PTV clearance may become an issue with these heads though??
Probably going to plan on getting the motor pulled and opened up and just go from there at this point. While the assembled short block would be nice, I'm definitely a little nervous about the quality or rebuild and associated clearances that I would be stuck with! Just hard to trust anyone these days based on past experiences!
I did speak to the guy Ive been working with at ATK yesterday though and he provided some more feedback for if I do end up going the 6.0 shortblock route. I was originally thinking lq9 vs 4 due to the slight power advantages but said I would need to go with the dished piston lq4 based in my cam specs to avoid clearance issues. My ls6 heads were machined to 62cc for the ls1 build so, I believe, that might put me at roughly a 10.5.1 C/R with stock gasket depending on how much the motor was decked. Just curious if that sounds accurate? Hate to sacrifice power going this route so maybe there's potential to go slightly thinner in gasket to bump that up a touch? Im not sure at what point PTV clearance may become an issue with these heads though??
Probably going to plan on getting the motor pulled and opened up and just go from there at this point. While the assembled short block would be nice, I'm definitely a little nervous about the quality or rebuild and associated clearances that I would be stuck with! Just hard to trust anyone these days based on past experiences!
You should be fine running your heads on a LQ9. people run 862 and 706 heads on them. the cc for those heads are 61.15cc. Just make sure to measure for the pushrod length. You can make adjustments with head gasket thickness if need be, but I doubt you would have any issues. but I'm no professional.
Got the car towed over to the shop I'll be working in so first step complete!
I did speak to the guy Ive been working with at ATK yesterday though and he provided some more feedback for if I do end up going the 6.0 shortblock route. I was originally thinking lq9 vs 4 due to the slight power advantages but said I would need to go with the dished piston lq4 based in my cam specs to avoid clearance issues. My ls6 heads were machined to 62cc for the ls1 build so, I believe, that might put me at roughly a 10.5.1 C/R with stock gasket depending on how much the motor was decked. Just curious if that sounds accurate? Hate to sacrifice power going this route so maybe there's potential to go slightly thinner in gasket to bump that up a touch? Im not sure at what point PTV clearance may become an issue with these heads though??
Probably going to plan on getting the motor pulled and opened up and just go from there at this point. While the assembled short block would be nice, I'm definitely a little nervous about the quality or rebuild and associated clearances that I would be stuck with! Just hard to trust anyone these days based on past experiences!
I did speak to the guy Ive been working with at ATK yesterday though and he provided some more feedback for if I do end up going the 6.0 shortblock route. I was originally thinking lq9 vs 4 due to the slight power advantages but said I would need to go with the dished piston lq4 based in my cam specs to avoid clearance issues. My ls6 heads were machined to 62cc for the ls1 build so, I believe, that might put me at roughly a 10.5.1 C/R with stock gasket depending on how much the motor was decked. Just curious if that sounds accurate? Hate to sacrifice power going this route so maybe there's potential to go slightly thinner in gasket to bump that up a touch? Im not sure at what point PTV clearance may become an issue with these heads though??
Probably going to plan on getting the motor pulled and opened up and just go from there at this point. While the assembled short block would be nice, I'm definitely a little nervous about the quality or rebuild and associated clearances that I would be stuck with! Just hard to trust anyone these days based on past experiences!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
You should be fine running your heads on a LQ9. people run 862 and 706 heads on them. the cc for those heads are 61.15cc. Just make sure to measure for the pushrod length. You can make adjustments with head gasket thickness if need be, but I doubt you would have any issues. but I'm no professional.
Scott Brochu's "Super Max" LQ9 6.0 Chevy LS engine with 4.8/5.3 862 Heads BIG TORQUE - YouTube
That guy is running a Howards Cam 224-234 / .612-.638 PN 190385-15 You should be fine. Always measure to make sure though.
That guy is running a Howards Cam 224-234 / .612-.638 PN 190385-15 You should be fine. Always measure to make sure though.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 78
Likes: 40
Well, motor is officially out and partially torn down. Was only able to get intake/heads off today but shooting to possibly get it on the stand and then pan off tomorrow to finally get a look at the damage. Nothing noticable on the cylinder walls so don't expect to see any broken rods at this point.
Was pretty set on going the lq9 shortblock route a few weeks ago but I'm a little weary of the quality of the ATK block/internals because of all the horor stories you hear about machine work these days. Contact there has been very helpful but still not a lot of good reviews out there for them. There's a local machine shop close by that's been around for years so may just go that route with the ls1 block. The idea of going the 383 stroker route has crossed my mind but the cost is tough to justify considering the gains with my existing head/cam setup would probably be minimal at best. Just hate the idea of doing all the work and putting the car back together just the way it was.
Any thoughts on the stroker route? Probably better ways to spend $2500??
Was pretty set on going the lq9 shortblock route a few weeks ago but I'm a little weary of the quality of the ATK block/internals because of all the horor stories you hear about machine work these days. Contact there has been very helpful but still not a lot of good reviews out there for them. There's a local machine shop close by that's been around for years so may just go that route with the ls1 block. The idea of going the 383 stroker route has crossed my mind but the cost is tough to justify considering the gains with my existing head/cam setup would probably be minimal at best. Just hate the idea of doing all the work and putting the car back together just the way it was.
Any thoughts on the stroker route? Probably better ways to spend $2500??
