Hello,

I’m looking to some of the LS1tech cam experts for cam recommendations for my fathers car. The car is 1999 Trans Am Firehawk (Dual/Dual catback) 6-speed, he will be keeping the stock rear gears. This is a 100% street car/cruiser, that will be lucky to see the track once. With that in mind the build will consist of the SLP bottom breathing ram air kit, SLP Blackwing lid, likely stock MAF if not the 85mm truck MAF, FAST 92/92, Kooks 1-7/8 LTs and ORY into the dual/dual catback. Plus the cam, springs, and pushrods and hopefully upgraded rocker bushings. The heads won’t be coming off.

His main goal is to have a good lope in the idle (probably can get that with most cams by lowering the idle speed), without sacrificing drivability. He is looking for good parking lot and cruising manners (no bucking or surging) with the stock 3.42 gears. Also would like good longevity from the valve springs.

Possible cam ideas:
WS6Store high lift hot cam (HLHC) 218/227-112+2
EPS 222/226-113
Cam Motion Titan 2 221/226-112
224R 224/224-112 or 114 LSA (probably lowest on the list being a dated single profile)
any other recommendations are welcome

He has his eyes on the HLHC and it looks like most that have that cam like it from reading the threads, but ones that don’t have it criticize the large split on the exhaust duration which may not be required for a car with LT’s.
I was leaning more towards the EPS 222/226-113. I almost chose this for my H/C/I build (AI 232cc heads, Mamo 102/102) but ended up going with the EPS 226/230-113. The 226/230 doesn’t have the greatest parking lot manners (might need the tune touched up) and I am thinking we would want to go a bit smaller for his car with stock heads/compression.

Not looking to set any dyno or track records, mainly looking for the muscle car sound but maximizing drivability and performance at the same time would be nice. So lets hear your thoughts, thanks in advance for your input!

 

I have the WS6 HLHC in my car. Its super punchy, has a good lope and good power right off idle. I didnt want a big cam and I tried to keep the overlap as low as I could. I had more plans past the cam but once I found out the wife was pregnant I had to change course. I did the cam, LS2 chain, WS6 Store ported oil pump PAC 1219 springs, cam retainer plate, RPM Speed pushrods, new valve seals, new pan gasket, oil pump pickup girdle, Powerbond 25% pulley and ARP bolt, Moser 12-bolt with 3:42's. Car runs nice, shifts great, sounds pretty good through my cat-less Magnaflow setup. I cant complain! It wont spin to 7000+ but, I dont care.

 

Good to hear, sounds like a similar setup. Do you have LTs with your catless exhaust or did you keep the stock manifolds?

I should also mention the desire to keep spring pressure low as to not put too much stress on the factory lifters. The car has about 35k miles.

 

The Summit Ghost Cam is worth a look. Look at MAVN's results on here. He has a great thread over it.

 

Major mistake keeping stock gears. They are anti fun! They are even less fun with any worthwhile cam.

The three most fun upgrades for a six speed fbody: gears, great shifter like Pro 5.0, MGW or Hurst and skip shift elimination.

FWIW - my back ground for making that comment is 20+ years with a six speed, LS bolton, LS1 heads & cam & LS strokers 3rd & 4th Gen fbodies, I've driven 700,000 miles in 3rd & 4th Gens 😀

SLP bottom breathing ram air kit, - totally worthless under 85 mph and marginal under 100 mph. Fast Toys made an extension that helps but Fast Toys set up is better.

SLP Blackwing lid - if you can find a good used FAST Toy's 98mm or 104mm lid that will seal, it's better.

stock MAF if not the 85mm truck MAF, - if using a Fast 92 why choke it with a stock MAF? 85mm MAF much better choice

FAST 92/92 - excellent choice! Nick Williams or WARR Performance (less expensive reuses stock TB sensors) make excellent TB's. Can be ported later if desired.

Kooks 1-7/8 LTs and ORY dual/dual catback. - Definitely a sweet exhaust set up!

The heads won’t be coming off - how many miles on the lifters? Even roller lifters develop wear patterns over time and miles. Low miles not as worrying.

He is looking for good parking lot and cruising manners (no bucking or surging) with the stock 3.42 gears. Gears improve drivability in otherwise bone stock six speed cars. 4.10's , Pto 5.0 skip shift were the best mod's my 99 T/A got better than heads & cam better than the 416 stroker motor. It's the single best mod for a six speed car. 3.73's also rock. Either gear gives the six speed car far better drivability and that's even more true with a cam.

Also would like good longevity from the valve springs. I'd go with the cam makers suggestion. I like BTR's Platinum Spring kit.


WS6Store high lift hot cam (HLHC) 218/227-112+2 - Definitely should deliver on the sound effects. My personal experience I'd want more intake duration. Intake can hit ~227 without drivability being compromised in a carefully planned package.

EPS 222/226-113 -Definitely Like EPS and this cam. Seems like an excellent choice.

Cam Motion Titan 2 221/226-112 -Definitely Like CM and this cam. Seems like an excellent choice.

224R 224/224-112 or 114 LSA (probably lowest on the list being a dated single profile) - old but still an excellent cam The 114 will have good manners. Some road racers still like that fat mid range torque a good single pattern can lay down for coming off the corners. My old 224/224 XER on a 113 with TEA heads could do ~380 wtq at 3,700 rpm. It had a lot of advance can came on strong but was done at ~6,200 rpm

He has his eyes on the HLHC and it looks like most that have that cam like it from reading the threads, but ones that don’t have it criticize the large split on the exhaust duration which may not be required for a car with LT’s. Then that's what he should try. It leaves too much on the table for me.

I was leaning more towards the EPS 222/226-113. I almost chose this for my H/C/I build (AI 232cc heads, Mamo 102/102) but ended up going with the EPS 226/230-113. The 226/230 doesn’t have the greatest parking lot manners (might need the tune touched up) and I am thinking we would want to go a bit smaller for his car with stock heads/compression. Gears 3.73s or better 4.10's and your EPS 226/230 - 113 best cam for his set up in my opinion out of the ones you've mentioned.

Not looking to set any dyno or track records, mainly looking for the muscle car sound but maximizing drivability and performance at the same time would be nice. So lets hear your thoughts, thanks in advance for your input!

Winner winner ! Gears 3.73s or 4.10's and EPS 226/230 - 113 that will make you smile! 😃😊

 

I have American Racing long tubes and ORY on the car.

 

I appreciate your detailed response! I've seen a lot of your posts over the years and know you have have lot of experience. The car does have the skip shift eliminator. I don't think I'll be able to talk him into gears, seems like a waste to spend the money on the 10 bolt and the other options are all pretty spendy.

These are both already on the car. My car has the SSRA and 104 lid running a SD tune. I did some logging using the torque app, and the MAP readings were near identical when swapping between the blackwing and 104 lid.

Agreed, just was trying to keep to a low budget, and max power not being the top concern didn't know if it was worth it. The 85mm truck MAFs aren't too spendy and can probably get one really cheap from a junk yard.
The intake may be a bit overkill for his goals but I talked him into it over buying an LS6 with the minimal price difference between the 2 when buying used. Now I'm trying to source a NW 92 TB for a reasonable price. I have a NW 102 TB to trade if anyone is interested.
The car/lifters have about 35k miles, so relatively low.

I'd personally like to split the difference with 3.90s for my car, I'm always on the lookout for a deal on a used rear but they're hard to come by.

What's your main reason for wanting a larger intake duration, higher peak power and power carrying past peak?

He is by no means set on the HLHC and wants to get it right the first time as we will not be changing the cam ever again in the future. He would rather leave some power on the table vs sacrificing street manners. I'm thinking we need to go smaller than my 226/230-113 especially since I have some bucking in parking lots even with my higher compression. Gears would likely fix that for me, and I hope to find that out in the future.

Thanks again for all the input, would you think the EPS 222/226 or Titan 2 would be better than the 226/230 for his goals IF staying with 3.42 gears?

 

Thank you, happy to share my .02 😊

One feels like, I just dropped $750 into a one arm bandit feeling putting gears in a 10-Bolt. Definitely understand when your dad's thoughts.

SWEET!!!
That's a very low mile car! Sounds very pristine.

3.90's are A++
Best of both worlds.

Humor - my 91 RS's 8.8 rear w/4.11's, had to have a pinion bearing after ~12,000 miles. Ironically, never had a 10-bolt need repairs that quickly. Probably Bad-Carma, all the bad but true things I've said about FORD for 30+ years. 😆 🤣 😂 😹

Greed for max hp & tq area under curve without shifting curves to the right. Tuning of course is KEY to idle/driveability. My experiences seeing friends & others with ~218/229 cams on 112; they are slightly less drivable and make slightly less power than an obsolete 224/224 113-114 with nasty obsolete (XER) lobes with similar good, not great tuning. The ~218/229's sounded a way better and their owners are happy, ultimately that's what matters. May read like throwing shade not my intention, just observation.

Yes, I agree gear will definitely help! My old 224/224 113 plus heads w/4.10's bucked going up hill in a parking deck w/o clutch work or creeping along bumper to bumper w/o clutch work - slightly worse than a stock M6 LS1 in both situations.

Yes, I bet that EPS 222/226 manner wise is probably close to the old time pet favorite Thunder Racing TR220/220 on a 114. Cam Motion & EPS are both A++ excellent choices IMHO.

IIRC Cam Motion suggests 3.73's w/Titan 2 221/226 on a 112 in their requirements description. I won't second guess their suggestion would personally pass on this cam w/o gears - FWIW.

Being the EPS 222/226 is a 113, it might behave slightly better. I'd confirm with Geoff that it is happy with 3.42's before pulling the trigger on the parts cannon. He will have best information etc.

Apologies for mentioning ⚙ ⚙ again.

 

I read through his thread, and some others kn the ghost cam. Good results for sure, but I'm worried it won't offer the cam'd sound we are going for. The idle video MAVN posted at 550 rpm still sounded pretty tame, and that's pretty a low idle speed.

I would probably be in the same boat for making jokes about fords... other than that has the 8.8 treated you well? Who built it? For my budget it's probably a 8.8 or a S60, preferably with a S-Track and 3.90s but unfortunately I don't think they make 3.90s for the S60.


No worries, makes me excited to get some gears in the future. I checked on cam motion's website and it says stock to 3.73 for rear gears for the Titan 2. I can call cam Motion (Steve?) and Geoff to see what they have to say.

 

Sounds like a good plan!

Sent PM to avoid getting off of the cam topic, in short lots of excellent aftermarket rear choices, wish they were less expensive!

 

Decide where you really want the power and where you want to shift. Be mindful of overlap. If you don’t want to rev it very high then that will rule out quite a few cams. No sense in putting a cam in that needs high rpm’s if you/dad don’t plan on or even want to spin it that high. Sure that big cam may lope but it may be dead on the bottom and need to spin fairly high to make that dyno sheet. Just something to think about.

 

I have the Titan 2. Big fan. Drives great. Can lope as much as you want based on tune and exhaust. Pulls to 7k.

 

Not looking to rev too high, likely wouldn't want to mess with the stock limiter much. What's that at, 6500?

Good to hear, what rear gears are you running with it, and are you a M6? We don't intend to rev it out to 7k.

 

I've run it with both a 3.42 and a 4.10. fine both ways. Remember a stock ls6 revs to 7k. It's nice having the head room to rev there if you want. It has plenty of low end grunt and good street manners.

 

We like the specs of the Ghost cam for a stockish 5.7 combo like this. Those specs are .600/.600, 222/234, 115+3 with -2* of overlap. However, if it's lope your father is after the Ghost cam probably isn't the cam for him. You can get some lope out of it with a low idle speed but it would still be a fairly smooth idle.

There is a Pro LS cam we think would be a good fit here. Check out our stage 3 truck cam SUM-8713R1. Specs on it are .550/.550/, 222/232, 112+5 with 3* of overlap. Similar to the Ghost cam but with .550" lift and the valve events are moved around. Designed around trucks but works well for folks with cars looking for power up to 6,500. With its 4* IVO at .050," it will have a nice steady lope to it. This will get along just fine with the stock gearing and M6. The 8713R1 will pull strong from 2,500-6,500 with budget-friendly LS6 springs. As an upgrade, you could go with the Trickflow by PAC TFS-16918-16 .600" lift beehives.

For an idea of the 8713R1's idle check out this video. Not our video nor our choice of thumbnail, but a nice idle clip video

When it comes to pushrods for the 8713R1 we typically see a 7.400" pushrod used. Things can vary, so we always recommend checking for pushrod length before purchasing pushrods. If you wanted to check for pushrod length and don't already have a pushrod length checker we offer the Trick Flow TFS-9501. When purchasing pushrods we recommend a minimum of a 5/16" Chromoly pushrod with a .080" wall. You can typically find a set of 16 for around $100. From there you can get into thicker wall and or larger diameter pushrods. We have our HDR thickwall pushrods. The 11/32" pushrods with a .120" wall have 25% less stress and 28% less deflection than a typical 5/16" .080" wall pushrod.

We know our customers like combos. All the Pro LS cams are available in a variety of combos. For all available 8713R1 combos look here. We like your plans of the FAST 92/92 along with the Kook's 1 7/8" headers and exhaust setup. Those mods will be a nice benefit no matter the cam you go with.

 

1 7/8” headers are too big on your 5.7l. 1 3/4” are a better choice and will make better torque on the street.

 

If we trust Texas Speeds stock-motor-1-3-4-vs-1-7-8-engine-dyno-results looks like 1 7/8 did basically the same down low and better up top.

When I directly asked Lingenfelter Performance Engineering which size primary headers 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 to use with a LPE GT2-3 cam (207/220 .571/.578 lift with 1.7 rocker 118.5 CL & GMPP LS6 heads), LPE recommended 1 7/8 primary.

One things for sure 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 both are light-years better than stock manifolds.

 

This is just simply a common misconception. He's definitely better off with 1 7/8. It's been proven they lose nothing down low and gain in the mid and up top. Even more so with adjoining mods.

 

If you have to buy headers, buy as big as you can. If you already have 1 3/4 it's not worth swapping to 1 7/8 for a mild build.

 

Listen to ddnspider if you don’t have headed buy 1 7/8 if you have 1 3/4 already not worth the upgrade. 1 7/8 gives you room to grow down the road and doesn’t hurt you now