Hey folks. I've asked a similar build question on reddit and have looked around to try and narrow my build down. I've done as much research as my google-fu will allow, but I'm a massive over-analyzer and I've gotten to the point I just need to make a call and pull the trigger. Apologies for the long write-up here, trying to me thorough with my details so the answers can be as helpful as possible. Appreciate and feedback anyone can offer!

Build
Car is a 1966 Lincoln Continental Sedan I'm currently doing a half restomod on.
Engine is from a 2004 Yukon Denali AWD, had about 125k on it and was running when pulled. Has 317 heads.
Transmission is also from the same 2004 Yukon. Was a reman trans with about 76k on it, but currently has the AWD rear housing, and will need to be swapped to a 2WD shaft with 2WD rear housing.

Goal
My goal is for a cruiser. I want the reliability of the LS, whatever additional MPG I can gain, along with just having a cool cruiser. I am not going for some max effort HP number. I will likely rip on her a little from a stoplight now and again, or do some semi-spirited pulls onto the highway, but in 95% of it's life it's gonna be used to hit up a few cars and coffee, take the family to dinner/ice cream, and take the wife out on date nights or a few overnight trips to some random locations in the northeast, so maybe some 4-5 hour highway drives max.

I realize the 4L65e isn't a race transmission, and I don't want it to shift like that either. So I need to be somewhat conservative in my overall performance goals to balance both the life of the trans and the highway MPG.

I'd like to keep this build as budget as possible, while using quality parts. This isn't a performance car, but I want it to be "fun", so any mild bump over stock is good, but I'm just gonna drive it and show it off. For example, I'd rather spend money on custom valve covers and remote injector placement than something that's gonna net me another 15-20hp I probably won't feel. I don't want this thing to be a dog, but I'm not looking to win any races in a sedan from the mid 60s that weighs as much as a modern 4WD 2500.

Current plans for the LQ4Plus whatever recs folks may have that I've overlooked. I'm hoping to keep the lower end bolted up, and just clean and paint, but also it's a 20 year old junkyard LS, so if I should tear it down to the block, replace main bearings, etc. then now is the time. Would def make cleaning the block and painting it easier.

Thanks for the time peeps, appreciate any feedback direction here. Also, if anyone can point me to good places to look on builds for the 4L65e I'd appreciate it. Have seen a lot of builds for performance street/track builds on those things, but very few cruiser builds, so unsure what to replace there exactly past the oem servo with the corvette servo.

Again, many thanks.

 

Doesn't work like that. Besides the fact that "hope" is a pretty poor plan in general, what gets lost with an inappropriate intake choice, is GONE. A cam won't bring it back. Mismatched parts are just that, mismatched. I'd STRONGLY recommend against that kind of intake if you want it to take off hard from a stop.

First off, you probably don't have a LQ4. More likely it's a LQ9. Same block, same heads, same intake, same injectors. Different pistons (that give considerably higher compression), different cam, different tune.

I'd leave the bottom end alone if it's OK. Stock bottom ends go hundreds of thousands of miles if properly taken care of. No need to tempt fate on that. This isn't a WW2 technology old small block that's had a 2-bbl carb and a Powerglide, and is missing ¼" of bore as a result. For what you're doing a "rebuild" just isn't necessary unless the motor is in real bad shape.

The stock truck intake is pretty good. I'd suggest leaving it there and finding some other way to get "look". Maybe make a custom cover for it or something. Again, no need to take on a project that will have all sorts of weird rabbit holes to go down, if you aren't already familiar with such things, as it sounds like you're not. Get it running good as-is FIRST.

For a cam, look at ones in the low 210s of intake duration. Something about like this. https://www.texas-speed.com/p-17363-...-camshaft.aspx A torque converter isn't "necessary" butt will make it AHELLUVALOT more fun to drive. Something in the 2500 - 2600 RPM range would be "enough". Avoid B&M, TCI, and misc stock cheeeeeeeep-outs like S10 models. Yank, Circle D, Hughes, are good ones to look at.

The heads you have are fine. 706 would give far too much compression on a LQ9 short block. The LQ9 compression is already high enough that it really wants premium gas. Don't get greedy.

80 lb/hr injectors is RIDICULOUS. Your stock ones are 29.5 or some such; they're the same ones as are used in 4.8, 5.3, and the other 6.0 in the same year range. They're the "GM shorty" type; not just "any" will fit, without modifying something else. They're essentially maxed out in a stock LQ9 so an upgrade is a good idea, just, a REASONABLE upgrade, not almost tripling their size. Good choices for that are simple: flex-fuel 5.3 ones, or 8.1 ones. Either of those is about a 35 - 40% increase in flow which is PLENTY for the situation at hand.

Follow the cam mfr's recommendations for springs. For the cam I posted, I'd put in PAC1218. Stock rockers are fine, except, do the CHE trunnion upgrade to them.

If you take off the heads you'll need gaskets & bolts obviously. Definitely change out all the gaskets; front & rear covers, pan, valley cover, etc.

The 10295 oil pump is probably the better choice although the 295 would be fine as well. Put in a LS2 chain and the little simple block chain damper. You'll need to drill & tap the block for that which you can do with hand tools. The bolts are 8mm std thread, 1.25mm I think butt don't hold me to that.

Get new knock sensors and the harness for them. You'll definitely need a tune so budget for that.

 

Thanks for the comments, follow up questions inline!

Rats! Ok, well I was hoping, but guess that is indeed a horrible move I'll regret. I'll keep poking around for an LS1/2/6 intake manifold in decent shape. Any thoughts on this LS2 intake from ebay? Appears to be possibly a reproduction? Finding one of these car intakes in good shape for a reasonable price has been incredibly difficult. I don't wanna spend hours and hours of my life hunting, but FB/craigslist/offerup have resulted in nothing.

How would I know LQ4 vs LQ9 without pulling the head, or is that my only option? I don't mind pulling the head, but if I can leave the heads (which you seem to indicate would be fine) I'd rather not pull them in order to have to replace the gasket and bolts unless that's something I should be doing anyway?

Ok, good to know. Motor looks to be in good shape, rockers all look like they are in great shape, no obvious signs of lack of oil changes or anything so I'm hoping for the best here.

Stock truck intake just won't fit in the engine bay, hood is too low. My only option is a car intake, or I'd just leave it and get a cover as you suggested.

I'm not super well versed on transmissions past beefing them up a bit. Is a converter going to make it an absolute nightmare to cruise on the highway, or cause hard shifts, or does it just change when it locks up? Sorry, I'm sure it's stupid question, I've just not had this explained to me in a way I can understand yet.

I was told it's an LQ4, which is why I was looking at that. I assume you're saying LQ9 because it came out of a Denali?

Good to note, that seems much more reasonable!

Noted!

Should I change out the gaskets on the heads even if I'm keeping them? Just to be safe?

Don't mind stepping up to the 10295 if it's the right move. I'm not looking to spend money unnecessarily, but I want to buy good stuff!

I'm planning the Holley Terminator X Max. I know that I'll need someone to help tune it once it's running as I've heard the auto tune will get you moving but it's not what you ideally want.

Thanks for all the feedback here!

 

Borescope in the spark plug hole. 4 has dish pistons, 9 has flat-tops. Might even be able to just look in the spark plug holes and see it without spending like $12 or whatever for a borescope camera to hook up to your phone.

Don't do that. It's as bad as basing a plan on "hope".

Generally, yes. In any event, you need to know what it is, before you start modifying it.

Take a look at the "TBSS" intake. Retains the truck-like features that a yyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuujjjjjjjjjjje heavy vehicle like that needs, butt that a car intake doesn't give, butt it sits lower than the std truck intake. Can't say that "it will fit", just, research it before making a mistake.

No, no, and no. At highway speeds its clutch will be locked up, so ALL difference completely disappears at that time. As far as shifts, it'll soften them up, if anything. As far as "when" the clutch locks up, that's completely under the control of the tune. All it does is, allow the engine to reach a higher RPM before its fluid drive system fully couples. The stall speed is (more or less, it's not quite that simple) the RPM the engine reaches with the throttle wide open and the car sitting still. A stock 60E converter stalls at around 1800 RPM behind a 6.0. Changing the intake from a truck one, or putting in a bigger cam, BOTH reduce the low-RPM power. A higher stall converter allows the engine to reach an RPM at which it can actually DO something under such conditions. Once the vehicle speed becomes such that the drive train gear ratio would allow the engine to exceed whatever the stall RPM is, it acts like any other converter. Just like your stock one does: if you gas it up at a stop, the engine RPM will go to 1800 or whatever and sit there, until the vehicle gets moving; then the RPMs begin to rise as the vehicle speeds up. If the new RPM after a shift wants to be below the converter stall speed, it will again sit at stall speed, then begin to rise again as the vehicle continues to speed up. It ONLY affects launch and other low-vehicle-speed operation.

 

I WFH and just went down, couldn't really see the piston shape easily from the 4 on one bank I tried. I snagged a cheap borescope off Amazon that will be here tomorrow and I'll use that to check. It appears like I saw the dished side of a piston, but like you said I want to be sure. I'm hoping it's an LQ4 because then no need for premium fuel, but it will take what it takes.

I spent quite a bit of time on Lincoln groups seeing if any of the truck intakes would fit. I know the TBSS is a little shorter, but everyone just said no won't fit. I suppose I could buy and try, but it appears that it's not gonna work for me.

I've seen videos from RH talking about the Fast, and Dorman LS2 intake both performing basically the same as the TBSS down low (assuming I'm not mistaking that on a specific model or conflating things) and obviously the Fast and Dorman are better up high. The Dorman is long gone now it seems, and the Fast is a real spendy boy. I think I'm stuck with a car intake.

I had toyed with the idea of swapping the heads to recport heads so I could run an LS3 intake, or doing the ICT adapter plates to run the LS3 intake, but the general concensus on adapter plates seems to be "no". The research on the recport heads seems to be that they don't perform nearly as good down low in the RPM range, so that was out.

Would be nice if there was a new budget option for cathedral port car sized intakes.

AH! Ok, I get it. That's super helpful! Thank you!

 

I don't think the LQ9 "requires" premium fuel the way some engines do, butt often if you do datalogging, you'll see quite a bit of knock sensor activity with regular. The stock ECM is smart enough to pull out timing to keep it "safe"; just, that also degrades overall performance, and is good to avoid if such things matter to you. In any case, putting 706/862 heads on the LQ4 will raise its compression to at least as high as the LQ9, so that's something to think about. You can use one step less cam than that one if it does turn out to be the 4, and keep the low end torque up as high as possible in that scenario.

Yeah if you have a way to tap into people who've already been where you are, and know what fits and doesn't, that's a YYYYYYUUUUUUUUUUJJJJJJJJJJJE help. So if "they" have tried and it doesn't work, then I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do with what ya got to do it with. I'd agree about the adapter idea, that's somewhere beyond the last resort, really. So the LS2 is likely to be the best of the not as good.

 

I'm keeping my eyes peeled, but I'm also a bit tired of playing the marketplace game, so I'm about ready to just pull the trigger on the one I linked and call it a day. It's either that, or just ball out with a fast, but it seems beyond unnecessary for my build.

I'll have my answer on the LQ4/LQ9 question tomorrow, and then I can start snagging parts to swap this week hopefully. Gonna be a while before this thing is on the road in it's final form, but man I'd love to have her moving under her own power in the spring.

Again, thank you for all the help! I may circle back with a final build list based off your recs once I get a look at the parts just to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid if that's cool with you.

 

NO!!! Don't do that!!!

JK. Seriously, we'll be glad to keep helping.

 

Just FYI there is a LS6 intake listed here on Market Place. Looks complete? $500?

 

I saw that, messaged about getting another pic of the under side. I think long term my play is gonna be to find a LS2/6 intake manifold and run that, or get a fast if I just can't find anything.

I've checked all over, including websites like car-part, and I just can't find anything for sale that looks in reasonable shape that hasn't been RTVed or is missing ports completely.

Sort of insane to me that these intake manifolds go for $500 when my entire LQ4 + 4L65e was $1,500. Also insane that there are no decent aftermarket options for car style intakes unless you go fast/MSR at the price of over a grand.

Depending on what I'm able to find over the winter, I'm either gonna roll the dice on ebay, or stuff a cheapo sheet metal intake just to get her running while I continue my search.

 

I snagged a super cheap borescope from Amazon that showed up first thing this morning, and it looks like indeed my engine is an LQ4 with dished pistons. Also looks like there is a little surface rust on the piston wall, and it's unclear to me if there may be an issue with the pistons themselves, or if that is just soot buildup.

Either way, looks like my best path is to swap with 307 heads, so since the heads are coming off it will let me get a better look.

 

I want to echo the advice of matching the intake and cam for the performance target you want. If its a street cruiser you for sure want a long runner intake and lower duration cam for extra grunt down low.

Those cylinder walls dont look terrible to me. Less than perfect, but it probably just hasnt been run in a little while. It will clean up.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, balance the performance vs looks dept. If it was easier to grab a LS1/2/6 intake manifold, or the Dorman was still available and reasonably priced, or the FAST wasn't basically the price of the motor and trans, I'd go any of those routes (although I strongly dislike the branding on the fast, regardless of performance).

The thing is I'm just struggling to find something, but I'm still looking.

I wish I saw more dyno numbers on short vs long runner intakes. I've seen the videos by RH, and podcasts, etc. and I realize that short runners are not ideal. That said, they are available everywhere and generally for cheap.

I saw the intake test that RH did, and it looks like the fabricated didn't really lose much power vs the LS1 (In get it's the worst of all intakes). It looks like over the lower power band it loses maybe 20hp/ft-lbs. Like if so, easy decision.



Then I saw another dyno run by Sloppy Mechanics, and the numbers are drastically different. Again, the total loss numbers are similar, but the curve below 3k is scary. It's showing in the 2-2.4k rpm range that the torque numbers are sub 80 ft-lbs?! At 2200 the sheet metal intake has like 70 ft-lbs, where as the early truck has like 260 ft-lbs! I can't tell if that's just how it hit on the dyno, or if that same result would have shown in RH's video had his chart started at 1.5k rpm rather than 3k.



At this point, I am not even sure if it would be better to do an LS3 intake with adapter plates or a sheet metal intake just to get her moving this spring. I still don't understand why there are no reasonably priced Gen 3 car intake manifolds that are long runner. Like, what do all the guys with these early LS car motors do if something happens? Are you basically just screwed?

 

What cam was in the RH video? The LS1 intake is pretty bad also, and gives up a bit to the LS6/2 style.

The sloppy graph is just the difference in when the dyno kicked in, but I would expect a short runner intake to lose 20-40 ft/lbs in the low end. That will definitely be felt in a heavy street cruiser.

I will be putting one of these Summit Max EFI intakes on my LS3 build, but its a big cam higher compression build around higher RPM. Im not too concerned in any tq loss below 4500rpm. It does fit the bill for you in terms of cost effectiveness and hood clearance. The runners go inside the plenum and are longer than your typical sheet metal style intakes, and they have nice trumpet radiused ends, but still "short". Something to think about.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-226127b-g2

 

Video is here in case you were curious:
He doesn't specify exactly which motor, but says it's a 6.0L with forged pistons/rods. AFR 230 heads, Comp 54-469-11 cam.

Tell you what, if I had any interest in starting a business there would be money to be made in a good looking affordable long runner intake manifold for these swaps. Really makes you wonder why Dorman stopped selling theirs.

Either way, I had seen that Summit racing intake posted on this forum (post here) and it looked interesting, but at ~5.25" runner length, its just under half the length of a long runner, so I'm sure the difference will be there.

Idk, always just choices I suppose.

 

No. You're reading the graph wrong.

Look at the legend. Note that torque is the more pastel lines, HP is the brighter colored ones.

Low-RPM torque does look pretty pathetic in those graphs though. I'd be interested in knowing what cam is in it and what engine it is, without having to sit through a video.

I still think you need a truck torque type of cam. Something in the very low 2-teens of .050" duration on the intake (like 210 to 214), 6 - 8° more on the exhaust than the intake, close to but not above .550" of lift to keep valve train setup simple, LSA 110 - 112°, installed at the normal ICL (not advanced or retarded). Use the intake with the longest runners you can find that will fit. NOT one of those sheet metal deals.

Yes there are. Like BILLIONS of em. You can get em for almost free at junkyards. They came on EVERY 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 truck. You just can't use em. Your problem is, to lengthen the runners, the intake has to be taller; and you don't have room for that. The problem isn't that there aren't any; the problem is, none of em fit your car. 2 VERY DIFFERENT things. You're trying to create a BLIBBET: that's WW2 slang for "10 gallons of excrement in a 5 gallon bucket". You'll just have to do the best you can.

 

I may be reading the graph wrong, but I don't think I am. Below is a marked up version of that graph I shared earlier. HP/TQ numbers are on the left and right of the chart but are 1:1 across the range (so 50hp = 50tq, and so on). So the number I care about is TQ (please ignore that I listed it as ft-lbs/hp, I meant to write just ft-lbs).

Looking at the X-axis (engine RPM) you'll see the green line shows 2200 RPM, and the lighter colored line for each maps to roughly 65 ft-lbs and 265 ft-lbs respectively for each intake.



All that said, I 100% agree that I am looking for a truck/torque intake.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but what? I was under the impression that even the LQ1/2/6 car intakes were considered long runner intakes, no? It's how RH refers to them, so that is what I was as well. I think just relying on the context of this thread what I'm meaning to say here is that for car-height intakes, between the options of short runner (like the fabricated sheet metal) and long runner (like the OEM LS6). Also, if you look at what you quoted, I said "car intake manifold", so I'm trying to be very clear here about the distinction I'm trying to make.

I appreciate the help, I really do, but I'm not making like wildly incorrect statements here.

 

I beg to differ.

You're reading the graph wrong.

The more pastel red line is run 2 torque. The bright red is run 2 HP

The more pastel blue line is run 1 torque. The bright blue is run 1 HP.

Looks like the actual "run" began at about 2400 for the blue traces, so at RPMs lower than that, it was idling, part throttle, or some such. Immaterial to the matter at hand in any case. Looks like both runs started recording at 1900 RPM even though they hadn't yet hit the throttle. Looks like the red run they started recording as they were sorta easing into the throttle and it bogged or hesitated or whatever you want to call it between about 1900 and 2100, so the engine slowed down some as the power came up, then kicked in and began acting normally. Looks like on the blue run the engine they stomped it like a cockroach at 2400 RPM and it stumbled BAD when they did that.

Sorry, I got the torque/HP/colors wrong initially. I couldn't read the legend very clearly before butt now that it's blown up better it's more visible.

Ultimately, the lowest RPM's measured torque was about 265 ft-lbs on the red run at 2100 RPM, when the throttle reached wide open in its more gradual motion, and around 250 ft-lbs at 2500 RPM on the blue run shortly after they stomped on it suddenly, which was when the run actually started. All that stuff down real low on the blue run before they stomped on the gas isn't part of the "run"; the engine wasn't at WOT until 2400.

Yes LS1 /2 /6 are somewhat "long" runner intakes. Longer certainly than the typical sheet metal intakes which they're pretty much as short as possible. NOWHERE NEAR as long as the 4.8 / 5.3 / 6.0 truck intakes however. They don't occupy enough volume to have runners that long. That's why they're not as tall.

 

I think a lot of what you just added is what I had said in my comment above, so I'll say thank you for confirming everything.

I couldn't really understand why the runs were so drastically different on the dyno sheet, but your explanation of easing on vs stopping and the different in start RPM makes sense now that I rewatch the video. Plus the start of the run, I had just sort of assumed after watching RH that everyone runs dyno comparisons the same way, but I suppose I should have realized the title of their channel is "Sloppy Mechanics" so ya know haha.

I get what you're saying on the "long" runner of the car vs the actual long runner of the truck intake. I'm speaking here of more comparison between the two, car short to car long. And before you say anything, I'm using the term "car" as meaning something short, say sub 9" tall.

Again though, I do appreciate some of your context on the dyno graph, I would not have thought of what you pointed out. While I think I was reading the graph correctly, there was some data on the surface I couldn't make sense of, which is why I post and ask. To learn. Still though, I was reading the graph right

 

Ok, I put together a bit of a build list, hopefully get some final feedback on parts to make sure I'm not mismatching anything crazy.

• Summit sheet metal intake - This is a placeholder so I can get everything in and running. I'll be looking for an LS2/6 intake manifold in good condition but I don't want to wait too long to make progress here.
• ICT Billet Throttle Body Adapter - Adapter to run my OEM throttle body. I'm gonna be looking for an LS2 throttle body, and if I can find one I'll run that instead so I can swap to an LS2 intake or fast intake in the future if I so decide.
• Summit Fuel Rail Kit - Need fuel rails, seems like a good value.
• Melling 10295 - New oil pump
• 703 LS heads - Gotta find a set from FB marketplace
• TSP Stage 1 Low Lift Truck Camshaft - Not 100% sure if this is the correct cam? From the RH videos I've watched, it seems that I'm looking at a pretty similar pattern. I'm looking for a little chop, but nothing insane. It does seem like the Truck Norris offers a pretty similar spec but with a little more chop, without going crazy chop. Any feedback here is great!
• PAC Racing 1200 Series Valve Springs PAC-1218 - Needed for cam, per recommendation
• Summit LS2 Timing Chains SME-143012 - This is the only timing chain on Summit I could find that specifically stated "LS2", open to any alternatives here.
• Trick Flow Timing Chain Dampeners TFS-K30675600 - Need to find out if I need the adapter or not.
• ICT Billet Knock Sensor Brackets 551216-KN30 - To move the knock sensors from the valley cover
• Summit LS Lifter Valley Covers SUM-240055B - Cheapest black valley cover with gasket (may check for an amazon/ebay special for this)
• Holley Mid-Mount Complete Accessory Systems - Need this to clear the accessories and the holley system seems to have everything and look the best
• ARP Pro Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kit for 2004 and Newer Chevy LS - 134-3610 - I've been told that you can't reuse the head bolts and ARP is a trusted brand from my diesel world experience
• Delphi Fuel Injectors FJ10471 OR ACDelco Replacement Fuel Injectors 12609749 - I know Delphi is a pretty recommended brand, and from my understanding ACDelco is(was?) backed by GM, so that would be the better option for pricing. Again, open to recommendations here. Both injectors offer 42 lbs/hr rating, so they should be good. Looking to run a returnless style system, so any feedback here is great. The flexfuel injectors are allegedly rated at 36 lbs/hr, but the brands listed on summit for that range are all brands I'm not familiar with (top street, deatschwerks)
• EDIT: Almost forgot, I need a trunnion upgrade as it was recommended. The CHE upgrade was recommended, but are any of the options available at Summit good? I'm gonna be putting in a big order with them and would be nice to not spread shipping costs, plus they are a pretty good brand for buying from, at least from past experience.

I know that I'll also need gaskets for the front timing chain cover, head gaskets when I do the 703 swap, and oil pan gasket as well. I'm not too familiar with head gasket sizing, so if anyone has recs there as well as brands to buy/steer away from that would be great.

I'm gonna be running a Holley Terminator X Max, so my setup should be pretty customizable in terms of parts here