Best low end torque cam for LS1..
06-01-2005, 07:35 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by DMNSPD
So why don't you just buy a big block then.
06-01-2005, 08:01 AM
#62
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There was a graph of superimposed TR224/G5X2/FM13 and while the X2 an FM13 took over into the higher rpms, the TR224 owned them both below the curve and in trq output.
So for the guys that think that a street setup with massive trq in the low lifts can't possibly beat huge cams, you need to open your mind and try to comprehend.
Big cam do not always make more power.
I would put my 224 against any big cam only that makes up to 400rwhp NA. Why because by the time you reach your powerband, I'm allready 3>4 cars ahead and you're just playing catch up.
I've seen it at the track and on the street. It is all about combo and suporting equipment.
Big cam can't work alone and needs the rest of the combo to dominate.
There is one guy here that uses a VINCI cam NA (cam # 060) off the line then shoots a 150 shot as soon as he gets into second, that is terrorising the track (similar to modified street division). All this on stock suspension and drag radials at full weight. Once done, he puts his AC on and goes home.
I say it again, combo, combo, combo .......
So for the guys that think that a street setup with massive trq in the low lifts can't possibly beat huge cams, you need to open your mind and try to comprehend.
Big cam do not always make more power.
I would put my 224 against any big cam only that makes up to 400rwhp NA. Why because by the time you reach your powerband, I'm allready 3>4 cars ahead and you're just playing catch up.
I've seen it at the track and on the street. It is all about combo and suporting equipment.
Big cam can't work alone and needs the rest of the combo to dominate.
There is one guy here that uses a VINCI cam NA (cam # 060) off the line then shoots a 150 shot as soon as he gets into second, that is terrorising the track (similar to modified street division). All this on stock suspension and drag radials at full weight. Once done, he puts his AC on and goes home.
I say it again, combo, combo, combo .......
06-01-2005, 08:43 AM
#63
Go back and read what I said about the Ausie cams. Shorter duration, narrower LSA. They make monster torque in the low to mid range while still pulling nicely above 6000 rpm. Too many on this board have tunnel vision or just follow the masses. There's a great big world of cam choices out there. While they may not put up "dyno queen" numbers, they'll plant a smile on your face every time.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
06-01-2005, 08:50 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Go back and read what I said about the Ausie cams. Shorter duration, narrower LSA. They make monster torque in the low to mid range while still pulling nicely above 6000 rpm. Too many on this board have tunnel vision or just follow the masses. There's a great big world of cam choices out there. While they may not put up "dyno queen" numbers, they'll plant a smile on your face every time.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
06-01-2005, 09:01 AM
#65
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Patrick if you were to design a very streetable torquey cam (emissions compliant) that made power between 3000-6000rpm what would you recommend? Car would have a 2.73 gear or 3.23.
Chris
Chris
06-01-2005, 09:05 AM
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The 216/220 110LSA will have some chop to it, won't it?
Back in the day, I had a '79 Camaro w/ a 355 SBC that had a custom 230/230 grind with a 109 LSA. It was originally built to be a dirt track engine but it was also a street tire terror. It made great off idle to 6000 rpm torque, but it did have a pretty choppy idle.
All that and a 650 double pumper Holley carb....
Back to today....I bet a TR220 on a 110LSA would be a torque monster.
The other thing to "feeling" good torque is to get you gearing right to match the engine/cam.
Back in the day, I had a '79 Camaro w/ a 355 SBC that had a custom 230/230 grind with a 109 LSA. It was originally built to be a dirt track engine but it was also a street tire terror. It made great off idle to 6000 rpm torque, but it did have a pretty choppy idle.
All that and a 650 double pumper Holley carb....
Back to today....I bet a TR220 on a 110LSA would be a torque monster.
The other thing to "feeling" good torque is to get you gearing right to match the engine/cam.
06-01-2005, 09:30 AM
#67
Originally Posted by equandt
The 216/220 110LSA will have some chop to it, won't it?
06-01-2005, 09:33 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by Plan B
Tighten the lobes and brace the seat!
That's all....!
That's all....!
06-01-2005, 09:34 AM
#70
TECH Senior Member
The thing is that Aussies tune SD most of the time and are blessed with nice ITB set ups to even run 230+ duration cams on tight 106 LSAs.
This is something we are just starting to mess with.
seems that we have difficulties thinking "outside the box"
This is something we are just starting to mess with.
seems that we have difficulties thinking "outside the box"
06-01-2005, 09:42 AM
#72
Originally Posted by CHRISPY
Patrick if you were to design a very streetable torquey cam (emissions compliant) that made power between 3000-6000rpm what would you recommend? Car would have a 2.73 gear or 3.23.
Chris
Chris
With Stock Exhaust: 216/226 113 LSA 111 ICL. This has -5 overlap and an IVC point of 39 degrees ABDC (for a power peak of 5900).
With headers:220/220 112LSA 109 ICL. This has -4 overlap and an IVC point of 39 degrees ABDC.
Keep in mind your goals: Torque down low. Max power by 6000. Emissions compliance. These cams will have some lope to them.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
06-01-2005, 09:54 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
There was a graph of superimposed TR224/G5X2/FM13 and while the X2 an FM13 took over into the higher rpms, the TR224 owned them both below the curve and in trq output.
So for the guys that think that a street setup with massive trq in the low lifts can't possibly beat huge cams, you need to open your mind and try to comprehend.
Big cam do not always make more power.
I would put my 224 against any big cam only that makes up to 400rwhp NA. Why because by the time you reach your powerband, I'm allready 3>4 cars ahead and you're just playing catch up.
I've seen it at the track and on the street. It is all about combo and suporting equipment.
Big cam can't work alone and needs the rest of the combo to dominate.
There is one guy here that uses a VINCI cam NA (cam # 060) off the line then shoots a 150 shot as soon as he gets into second, that is terrorising the track (similar to modified street division). All this on stock suspension and drag radials at full weight. Once done, he puts his AC on and goes home.
I say it again, combo, combo, combo .......
So for the guys that think that a street setup with massive trq in the low lifts can't possibly beat huge cams, you need to open your mind and try to comprehend.
Big cam do not always make more power.
I would put my 224 against any big cam only that makes up to 400rwhp NA. Why because by the time you reach your powerband, I'm allready 3>4 cars ahead and you're just playing catch up.
I've seen it at the track and on the street. It is all about combo and suporting equipment.
Big cam can't work alone and needs the rest of the combo to dominate.
There is one guy here that uses a VINCI cam NA (cam # 060) off the line then shoots a 150 shot as soon as he gets into second, that is terrorising the track (similar to modified street division). All this on stock suspension and drag radials at full weight. Once done, he puts his AC on and goes home.
I say it again, combo, combo, combo .......
i had a TR224 114 and i loved it .. dont hesitate .. its the best choice for u .. i ve been in the same situation .. i wrote a similar thread and i got the same answers as urs looool ... TR 224 112 ..
am planning to give the F13 112 110 ICL a try .. why F13 ?? just want to try it .. am jumping from one cam to another .. trying to discover the beauty of cams
P.S: u r lucky .. best people here r replying ur thread ,, good luck
06-01-2005, 09:59 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by FiveSevenEagle
...P.S: u r lucky .. best people here r replying ur thread ,, good luck
06-01-2005, 10:39 AM
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That is interesting Patrick as I was thinking about a 220/220 on 110LSA 110ICL (6200rpm shiftpoint) Car would have headers.
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
06-01-2005, 10:43 AM
#76
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Originally Posted by CHRISPY
That is interesting Patrick as I was thinking about a 220/220 on 110LSA 110ICL (6200rpm shiftpoint) Car would have headers.
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
I was just looking at two profiles earlier.
216/220 .52/.53 114
212/210 .57/.56 110
The 212/210 has 1* more overlap @ .05 and 2* less @ .006.
06-01-2005, 10:51 AM
#77
Originally Posted by CHRISPY
That is interesting Patrick as I was thinking about a 220/220 on 110LSA 110ICL (6200rpm shiftpoint) Car would have headers.
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
Any issues with the MAF using these narrow LSA cams? My 385ci motor had a 236/242 on 110LSA and didn't like the MAF very much
Overlap is what tends to whack-out the MAFs. 0 overlap is nothing a stock MAF can't handle. You should be good to go.
06-01-2005, 12:09 PM
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This is some good info guys! I'm in the same boat, mostly local driving, and beating around the streets. Want to keep or increase my low end torque through the whole rpm band.
My issue, NEW JERSEY INSPECTION!!! Sucks. Anyone have any idea if any of these cams on a basically stock 02 WS6 would pass inspection??
My issue, NEW JERSEY INSPECTION!!! Sucks. Anyone have any idea if any of these cams on a basically stock 02 WS6 would pass inspection??
06-01-2005, 12:22 PM
#79
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In general, any cam with 0 or less degrees of overlap @ .050 will pass with a good tune.
How to calculate:
(Int Dur + Exh Dur)/2 - (2 X lsa) = * of overlap
(these numbers at .050 lifts)
How to calculate:
(Int Dur + Exh Dur)/2 - (2 X lsa) = * of overlap
(these numbers at .050 lifts)
06-01-2005, 05:19 PM
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Here is some threads I ran into while searching. You may have seen these, but if not hope they help.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/79019-224-224-565-565-110lsa-106icl-comp-xe-dyno-graph.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/72972-224-224-110lsa-106icl-cam-dyno-results-very-happy.html
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/79019-224-224-565-565-110lsa-106icl-comp-xe-dyno-graph.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/72972-224-224-110lsa-106icl-cam-dyno-results-very-happy.html
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.