618HAWK

iTrader: (361)

I am going to replace my stock cam. With a GT2-3 207/220 .571/.578 118.5 . Cam has beed installed before with no problems.(not my engine) Here is the question I do not have the "CamCard". For degreeing it looks like it is a must for degreeing it in correctly? I dont know if it would be worth while to send it back to Lingenfelter for a new card, or would it. If that would even be a option.

Supose I could jets get a way and installing the cam "straightUp".

Any info would be great, what should I do???????

Chris

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

The reason you degree a cam is to make sure it was ground correctly. If it was installed/degreed before with no problems, then you should be able to install it straight up.

redtail2426

iTrader: (10)

i am doing this cam also soon i dont think degreeing is necessary.let me know what springs and pushrods you decided on for this too.I am gonna do comp 918's not sure about pushrods yet but working on it.

618HAWK

iTrader: (361)

Thanks
But yes it was installe before but no in my engine.
Is is not a good practice to degree all cams for correct installation? After a bit of research I think I might be able to send the serial number off of this cam to Lingenfelter for a new cam card.
Chris

618HAWK

iTrader: (361)

I am going to try and use my current push rods which are comp cams 7.375 chromly rods. And my springs and titanum retainers that were installed when I installed my 1.85 arms. SLP High-performance set, spring&retainerd and locks.

redtail2426

iTrader: (10)

let me know if those pushrods end up being to short for ya.

C_Williams

Install it "dot to dot" and then check the opening and closing events at .050 - the results will confirm duration -

Next, check lobe centerlines and you can tell what would be "straight up" LSA and whether or not the cam is ground advanced or retarded.

Charlie

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

The cam card will only be good for telling you what the numbers are supposed to be. Lots of cams are mis-ground and sent out with good cards. If a cam has been degreed in on another motor and checked out good, the only diffrence between thier motor and yours will be the timing chain slack. If you feel safe that the person before you degree'd it correctly, then I wouldn't worry. However, If you are unshure of the person before you, then I would degree it, or have it cam doctored.

Schantin

iTrader: (6)

If the cam is supposed to be installed "straight up" and has been used successfully before, you should be good. Some manufacturers seem to be better than others. For example, my TR224 came with a spec card. The 112LSA is actually 112.5, the lift is good, and the duration was more like 224.5 or so. No big deal.

The use of a degree is when installing a "custom cam", like a CamMotion or similiar and you want to be damn sure it was ground as ordered. Also, if the cam is installed with advance, say 4 degrees. the card and degree kit are used to check that yes, the cam was installed with a proper advance.

Lingenfelter has a good rep and their cam is most likely ground as advertised. Knowing it was used sucessfully before all but confirms that. So, unless you're installing the cam advanced or retarded, lining it up dot to dot should suffice.

Hope this helps.

Schantin
2002 Camaro Z28 M6

J-Rod

Call LPE and get a cam card.

Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.

618HAWK

iTrader: (361)

Thanks for all the good info. Well the cam was installed before in my buddys 383 Lingenfelter block, by Lingenfelter so I would assume but not take it for granted that things were correct. But to play it safe I will see if I can get a card. And if not i will install it dot-to-dot.
Chris

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Exactly

Degreeing a cam is not to make sure it's ground right, but to make sure it's installed right. The QC at most cam grinders is done to make sure they are ground correctly, installing the cam correctly is the key. As I have said before "Dot to Dot is comparable to wearing Depends when you should just learn to hold it."

If you don't agree with me on this need to degree a camshaft, well good luck to you but the first time you bend a set of valves and have to tear down the motor to replace them and then degree the cam in properly you will understand.... luckily I always degree in cams so I don't have to learn this lesson.

Bret

Dustin Butts

iTrader: (5)

Haaahaha Boy ain't that the truth. You can install a cam in a very meticulous fashion "dot to dot" and then when you actually check it with a degree wheel it can be 2-4 degrees(or more) retarded or advanced. This puts your valves(exhaust[retarded] and intake[advanced]) that much closer to the piston during the stroke. The cam is designed to be installed at a certain intake center line (ICL). You can change it on your own after that if you want to move the powerband around. Always check p to v clearance also!

Adrenaline_Z

Preach On my friend.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Bret, isn't this the same thing? If you degree the cam and it is off from the card, then obviouslly it was ground wrong and you need to correct it by advancing or retarding it. Also, if the same cam has been degreed in before, in theory, it should be the same on the next motor. Although I wouldn't trust that unless I was the one who did the first degreeing. I check all my cams, but I've also never installed the same cam twice.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Beast...

A tool like a Cam Dr is used to check lobe profile accuratcy and to make sure that the lobes on a V8 pushrod motor are at the right LSA... the ICL only depends on where you place it in the motor. Hence that's how you check if it's GROUND correctly (cams are done on a cam grinder so they are ground)

When you install a cam you put the cam in, the belt, gear or timing chain on and check to make sure the ICL and/or ECL are correct. A cam can be ground correctly but if the cam is installed incorrectly it really doesn't matter how accurate the cam is manufactured. You can install them correctly or incorrectly, only way to tell is with a degree wheel.

Bret

mikemodano9c

i have read discussions about this before and i have a few questions...

every cam designed for an ls1 (if ground correctly) is meant to be installed dot to dot...or at least that i have seen. if i have a cam that is ground correctly (to spec) and is meant to be installed dot to dot, is there any way it can be installed incorrectly if it is in fact installed dot to dot? with a stock timing chain there is a lot of "play" in the chain and the teeth on the cam gear are pretty damn big, so it is obvious if it isn't installed dot to dot. i don't see how a small adjustment could be made even using the stock chain...

if a cam is designed to be installed straight up dot to dot and is ground correctly to spec, please explain to me how it can be installed incorrectly...

maybe if i saw someone degree a cam i would understand it better...thanks

J-Rod

There are variances from the mfgs. Some aren't so big, some are. I saw one recently that was supposed to be +4. Instead it checked out -6 when installed dot to dot. Had it not been checked, it might have been missed and the car wouldn't have made power in the manner the person wanted.

Dustin Butts

iTrader: (5)

Well first, as I'm sure you are aware, nothing is perfect in this material world. That being the case there are certain "tolerances" within the individual drivetrain parts. For example a brand new timing chain could be a few thousands or ten thousands longer or shorter than another. The timing gear and the timing gear bolt holes could be slighty off. The cam itself can be off slightly. This is with brand new parts. Add all these slight differences together and you can be a few degrees off from optimum install specs even if meticulously installed "dot to dot". If you're using used timing gear parts, the differences can be way more. A few degrees advanced or retarded can have a big effect on the powerband location and piston to valve clearance. It "usually" doesn't affect total HP too much but it definitely can.