Degreeing the Camshaft Attention engine builders
Degreeing the Camshaft Attention engine builders I am going to replace my stock cam. With a GT2-3 207/220 .571/.578 118.5 . Cam has beed installed before with no problems.(not my engine) Here is the question I do not have the "CamCard". For degreeing it looks like it is a must for degreeing it in correctly? I dont know if it would be worth while to send it back to Lingenfelter for a new card, or would it. If that would even be a option.
Supose I could jets get a way and installing the cam "straightUp".
Any info would be great, what should I do???????
Chris
Supose I could jets get a way and installing the cam "straightUp".
Any info would be great, what should I do???????
Chris
i am doing this cam also soon i dont think degreeing is necessary.let me know what springs and pushrods you decided on for this too.I am gonna do comp 918's not sure about pushrods yet but working on it.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
The reason you degree a cam is to make sure it was ground correctly. If it was installed/degreed before with no problems, then you should be able to install it straight up.
But yes it was installe before but no in my engine.
Is is not a good practice to degree all cams for correct installation? After a bit of research I think I might be able to send the serial number off of this cam to Lingenfelter for a new cam card.
Chris
I am going to try and use my current push rods which are comp cams 7.375 chromly rods. And my springs and titanum retainers that were installed when I installed my 1.85 arms. SLP High-performance set, spring&retainerd and locks.
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by 618HAWK
I am going to replace my stock cam. With a GT2-3 207/220 .571/.578 118.5 . Cam has beed installed before with no problems.(not my engine) Here is the question I do not have the "CamCard". For degreeing it looks like it is a must for degreeing it in correctly? I dont know if it would be worth while to send it back to Lingenfelter for a new card, or would it. If that would even be a option.
Supose I could jets get a way and installing the cam "straightUp".
Any info would be great, what should I do???????
Chris
Supose I could jets get a way and installing the cam "straightUp".
Any info would be great, what should I do???????
Chris
Install it "dot to dot" and then check the opening and closing events at .050 - the results will confirm duration -
Next, check lobe centerlines and you can tell what would be "straight up" LSA and whether or not the cam is ground advanced or retarded.
Charlie
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Originally Posted by 618HAWK
Thanks
But yes it was installe before but no in my engine.
Is is not a good practice to degree all cams for correct installation? After a bit of research I think I might be able to send the serial number off of this cam to Lingenfelter for a new cam card.
Chris
But yes it was installe before but no in my engine.
Is is not a good practice to degree all cams for correct installation? After a bit of research I think I might be able to send the serial number off of this cam to Lingenfelter for a new cam card.
Chris
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Verdad Gallardo
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Ft. Irwin, California (But Virginia is home)
If the cam is supposed to be installed "straight up" and has been used successfully before, you should be good. Some manufacturers seem to be better than others. For example, my TR224 came with a spec card. The 112LSA is actually 112.5, the lift is good, and the duration was more like 224.5 or so. No big deal.
The use of a degree is when installing a "custom cam", like a CamMotion or similiar and you want to be damn sure it was ground as ordered. Also, if the cam is installed with advance, say 4 degrees. the card and degree kit are used to check that yes, the cam was installed with a proper advance.
Lingenfelter has a good rep and their cam is most likely ground as advertised. Knowing it was used sucessfully before all but confirms that. So, unless you're installing the cam advanced or retarded, lining it up dot to dot should suffice.
Hope this helps.
Schantin
2002 Camaro Z28 M6
The use of a degree is when installing a "custom cam", like a CamMotion or similiar and you want to be damn sure it was ground as ordered. Also, if the cam is installed with advance, say 4 degrees. the card and degree kit are used to check that yes, the cam was installed with a proper advance.
Lingenfelter has a good rep and their cam is most likely ground as advertised. Knowing it was used sucessfully before all but confirms that. So, unless you're installing the cam advanced or retarded, lining it up dot to dot should suffice.
Hope this helps.
Schantin
2002 Camaro Z28 M6
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
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From: Texas
Call LPE and get a cam card.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Thanks for all the good info. Well the cam was installed before in my buddys 383 Lingenfelter block, by Lingenfelter so I would assume but not take it for granted that things were correct. But to play it safe I will see if I can get a card. And if not i will install it dot-to-dot.
Chris
Chris
Originally Posted by J-Rod
Call LPE and get a cam card.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Degreeing a cam is not to make sure it's ground right, but to make sure it's installed right. The QC at most cam grinders is done to make sure they are ground correctly, installing the cam correctly is the key. As I have said before "Dot to Dot is comparable to wearing Depends when you should just learn to hold it."
If you don't agree with me on this need to degree a camshaft, well good luck to you but the first time you bend a set of valves and have to tear down the motor to replace them and then degree the cam in properly you will understand.... luckily I always degree in cams so I don't have to learn this lesson.
Bret
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Exactly
Degreeing a cam is not to make sure it's ground right, but to make sure it's installed right. The QC at most cam grinders is done to make sure they are ground correctly, installing the cam correctly is the key. As I have said before "Dot to Dot is comparable to wearing Depends when you should just learn to hold it."
If you don't agree with me on this need to degree a camshaft, well good luck to you but the first time you bend a set of valves and have to tear down the motor to replace them and then degree the cam in properly you will understand.... luckily I always degree in cams so I don't have to learn this lesson.
Bret
Degreeing a cam is not to make sure it's ground right, but to make sure it's installed right. The QC at most cam grinders is done to make sure they are ground correctly, installing the cam correctly is the key. As I have said before "Dot to Dot is comparable to wearing Depends when you should just learn to hold it."
If you don't agree with me on this need to degree a camshaft, well good luck to you but the first time you bend a set of valves and have to tear down the motor to replace them and then degree the cam in properly you will understand.... luckily I always degree in cams so I don't have to learn this lesson.
Bret
Boy ain't that the truth. You can install a cam in a very meticulous fashion "dot to dot" and then when you actually check it with a degree wheel it can be 2-4 degrees(or more) retarded or advanced. This puts your valves(exhaust[retarded] and intake[advanced]) that much closer to the piston during the stroke. The cam is designed to be installed at a certain intake center line (ICL). You can change it on your own after that if you want to move the powerband around. Always check p to v clearance also! 
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From: K-W, Ontario
Call LPE and get a cam card.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Too many folks seem to trust that if you install it, and it doesn't bang a piston, its right. That too often is not the case, and many folks just mistakenly believe that "dot to dot" is close enough. If you have the means and the ability to check the cam, then I advise everyone to check the cam when installing it no matter what the grind is.
Preach On my friend.
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Degreeing a cam is not to make sure it's ground right, but to make sure it's installed right. [/i]
Bret
Beast...
A tool like a Cam Dr is used to check lobe profile accuratcy and to make sure that the lobes on a V8 pushrod motor are at the right LSA... the ICL only depends on where you place it in the motor. Hence that's how you check if it's GROUND correctly (cams are done on a cam grinder so they are ground)
When you install a cam you put the cam in, the belt, gear or timing chain on and check to make sure the ICL and/or ECL are correct. A cam can be ground correctly but if the cam is installed incorrectly it really doesn't matter how accurate the cam is manufactured. You can install them correctly or incorrectly, only way to tell is with a degree wheel.
Bret
A tool like a Cam Dr is used to check lobe profile accuratcy and to make sure that the lobes on a V8 pushrod motor are at the right LSA... the ICL only depends on where you place it in the motor. Hence that's how you check if it's GROUND correctly (cams are done on a cam grinder so they are ground)
When you install a cam you put the cam in, the belt, gear or timing chain on and check to make sure the ICL and/or ECL are correct. A cam can be ground correctly but if the cam is installed incorrectly it really doesn't matter how accurate the cam is manufactured. You can install them correctly or incorrectly, only way to tell is with a degree wheel.
Bret
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Austin, TX
i have read discussions about this before and i have a few questions...
every cam designed for an ls1 (if ground correctly) is meant to be installed dot to dot...or at least that i have seen. if i have a cam that is ground correctly (to spec) and is meant to be installed dot to dot, is there any way it can be installed incorrectly if it is in fact installed dot to dot? with a stock timing chain there is a lot of "play" in the chain and the teeth on the cam gear are pretty damn big, so it is obvious if it isn't installed dot to dot. i don't see how a small adjustment could be made even using the stock chain...
if a cam is designed to be installed straight up dot to dot and is ground correctly to spec, please explain to me how it can be installed incorrectly...
maybe if i saw someone degree a cam i would understand it better...thanks
every cam designed for an ls1 (if ground correctly) is meant to be installed dot to dot...or at least that i have seen. if i have a cam that is ground correctly (to spec) and is meant to be installed dot to dot, is there any way it can be installed incorrectly if it is in fact installed dot to dot? with a stock timing chain there is a lot of "play" in the chain and the teeth on the cam gear are pretty damn big, so it is obvious if it isn't installed dot to dot. i don't see how a small adjustment could be made even using the stock chain...
if a cam is designed to be installed straight up dot to dot and is ground correctly to spec, please explain to me how it can be installed incorrectly...
maybe if i saw someone degree a cam i would understand it better...thanks
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From: Texas
There are variances from the mfgs. Some aren't so big, some are. I saw one recently that was supposed to be +4. Instead it checked out -6 when installed dot to dot. Had it not been checked, it might have been missed and the car wouldn't have made power in the manner the person wanted.
Well first, as I'm sure you are aware, nothing is perfect in this material world. That being the case there are certain "tolerances" within the individual drivetrain parts. For example a brand new timing chain could be a few thousands or ten thousands longer or shorter than another. The timing gear and the timing gear bolt holes could be slighty off. The cam itself can be off slightly. This is with brand new parts. Add all these slight differences together and you can be a few degrees off from optimum install specs even if meticulously installed "dot to dot". If you're using used timing gear parts, the differences can be way more. A few degrees advanced or retarded can have a big effect on the powerband location and piston to valve clearance. It "usually" doesn't affect total HP too much but it definitely can.
