to DTC was posting the second set of numbers... shows a lot of candor
Hype surrounding ET Performance heads
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Hype surrounding ET Performance heads Interesting thread in the dyno section:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/441746-second-dyno-etp-215-heads-edc-cam.html
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/441746-second-dyno-etp-215-heads-edc-cam.html
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Tucson, Arizona
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Interesting thread in the dyno section:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441746
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441746
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
well said, there is more to heads than just flow...................like velocity is important too, etc
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
So what was the point of this thread again? 
Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.
There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
you still need to realize this is with 215cc heads, a mustang dyno, stock TB, through CATS and no UD pulley.
and look at the TQ curve. numbers look pretty damn good to me. those heads flow awesome with a SMALL port. b
I bet on a dyno-jet with a ported TB, UD pulley and gutted cats it would be more like 450-60rwhp with a NICE tq curve. something you don't see out of many H/C motors. I will admit that the 29/19 gain seems kinda low though.
the only thing that sux is that the 479 numbers I'm sure are part of the reason ETP heads are on a 2 month wait list
I can't wait that long. I will still NOT hesitate to get a set.
and look at the TQ curve. numbers look pretty damn good to me. those heads flow awesome with a SMALL port. b
I bet on a dyno-jet with a ported TB, UD pulley and gutted cats it would be more like 450-60rwhp with a NICE tq curve. something you don't see out of many H/C motors. I will admit that the 29/19 gain seems kinda low though.
the only thing that sux is that the 479 numbers I'm sure are part of the reason ETP heads are on a 2 month wait list
I can't wait that long. I will still NOT hesitate to get a set. Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Originally Posted by Ben R
So what was the point of this thread again? Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.
There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
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Originally Posted by Ben R
So what was the point of this thread again? Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.
There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
Looks like more AFR BS to me. I guess it's par for the course.There are a handfull cars using ET's 5.3 head that have made over 460 heads/cam. These heads are good heads.
--------> ET 
I also read thaty dyno eats 10%. Which would give him 440-450 already. Add the extra`s like UD pulley etc would even be better. I understand on wanting more info. Just sounds like a bashing thread. Lets wait and see! I will let you know something in acouple weeks with mine.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
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From: Austin, TX
I'm not sure Patrick is trying to totally debunk ETP heads, just saying that "hey, they don't make 480rw on a mustand dyno." BUT, to say, well 406rw sucks, ETP sucks...that's dumb. Like always, look at the whole picture here. Eventually someone will take their car to a shop, dyno, and swap heads and redyno. Then you can get a comparison. Hell, and engine dyno comparison is really what we need. Someone call ETP and W2W.
And for what its worth, you can't possibly deny ETP's rep. They port a ton of stuff for W2W and have been for a long while before they started casting their own heads.
Still...11 degree 215cc heads that pull 400rw on a mustang dyno, on a vette, with stock pulley, ls6 intake, and cats kick major *** IMO.
And for what its worth, you can't possibly deny ETP's rep. They port a ton of stuff for W2W and have been for a long while before they started casting their own heads.
Still...11 degree 215cc heads that pull 400rw on a mustang dyno, on a vette, with stock pulley, ls6 intake, and cats kick major *** IMO.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Patrick G
It's not BS, it's called clarification. The point of the thread is to educate the consumer that the 479rwhp Mustang dyno number was false. The customer dynos 373rwhp/350rwtq with cam and stock heads on a Mustang dyno. Then he adds ETP 215 heads, changes to an Ed Curtis cam, ports his throttle body and re-dynoes 402/369. A solid gain, but not the stuff legends are made of. Like I said, based on the flow numbers, the ET heads look promising, but let's bridle our enthusiasm a little until more dyno and track numbers are out.
[QUOTE=383ss]you still need to realize this is with 215cc heads, a mustang dyno, stock TB, through CATS and no UD pulley.
and look at the TQ curve. numbers look pretty damn good to me. those heads flow awesome with a SMALL port. [QUOTE]
Sorry but it has a prted TB. It also had a specifically matched EDC cam for it to (Even thought the cam is small).
I think the point of this thread was to educate people that the numbers are the world beaters that 479 on a mustang dyno would indicate.
Not downing ET at all I think the heads are very solid but they arent going to be 40+hp over the other top LS based heads that are coming to market.
and look at the TQ curve. numbers look pretty damn good to me. those heads flow awesome with a SMALL port. [QUOTE]
Sorry but it has a prted TB. It also had a specifically matched EDC cam for it to (Even thought the cam is small).
I think the point of this thread was to educate people that the numbers are the world beaters that 479 on a mustang dyno would indicate.
Not downing ET at all I think the heads are very solid but they arent going to be 40+hp over the other top LS based heads that are coming to market.
Here is my oponion.
Regardless of what head was used there are too many F up's to say what is right and what was wrong.
We all know Mustang dyno's typicially dyno very very low in comparision to Dyno Jet dyno's.
He made 373 before the H/C swap, so how do we know the dyno wasn't already fucked up?
Maybe the dyno was wrong with the 373 number which makes since due to the fact that most mustang dynos would show around 340 with LS6 heads and the cam he was using.
I know a stock Z06 typicially makes 305-315 on the mustang dyno we have in this area.
Have him pull the heads and cam and put the origional setup back on with the way the dyno is set up now and see what happens. That is the only way to see the true gains.
No matter what anyone says we have no way of knowing the settings on the dyno after being fixed are exactly the same as they were when he had the cam only setup dynoed.
In closing I will agree that it would be nearly impossible to make 480 RWHP with his setup.
He says he is still happy with the numbers, and I bet we see well over 420 on a dynojet.
Regardless of what head was used there are too many F up's to say what is right and what was wrong.
We all know Mustang dyno's typicially dyno very very low in comparision to Dyno Jet dyno's.
He made 373 before the H/C swap, so how do we know the dyno wasn't already fucked up?
Maybe the dyno was wrong with the 373 number which makes since due to the fact that most mustang dynos would show around 340 with LS6 heads and the cam he was using.
I know a stock Z06 typicially makes 305-315 on the mustang dyno we have in this area.
Have him pull the heads and cam and put the origional setup back on with the way the dyno is set up now and see what happens. That is the only way to see the true gains.
No matter what anyone says we have no way of knowing the settings on the dyno after being fixed are exactly the same as they were when he had the cam only setup dynoed.
In closing I will agree that it would be nearly impossible to make 480 RWHP with his setup.
He says he is still happy with the numbers, and I bet we see well over 420 on a dynojet.
Last edited by JZ'sTA; Jan 24, 2006 at 03:01 PM.
Maybe noone saw this thread.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=performance
Maybe his dyno was messed up to.
I am going to say his numbers seem far fetched as he was going from a very good head already, but why lie????
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=performance
Maybe his dyno was messed up to.
I am going to say his numbers seem far fetched as he was going from a very good head already, but why lie????
nah i agree with patrick. people need to know that car didn't make 490RWHP with ET heads. "corrupted files" my ***, its called propaganda and they fooled people by saying there heads made 490 when in reality it was 402RWHP! i would be so pissed if i just spent 3 grand on a set of heads comparable to dare i say $1500 patriots. regardless people need to know the claims orginally made by DTC and ET Performance were false who cares if it was because of a computer glich? I as a consumer deserve to know!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Originally Posted by Ben R
No, this is bullshit. The owner of the car posted up his new, revised numbers in the DYNO section, where they belong. But for some reason you feel the need to make it a bigger deal than it was. I mean who REALLY believed those numbers were accurate. I sure didn't, but I sure as **** wasn't going to say anything. There was obviously something goofy happening. Turns out there was, and now we have updated numbers that are right on track with where they should be. Then you refer to the heads as being 'hyped'. Like I've said, I've seen these their cheapest head made 460+ through full exhaust and some heavy-*** wheels. They're good heads. And that's the bottom line.
Apologies to G-Force and ETP if this appears to be a bash. Nothing could be further from the truth. But I think the best way for you to promote your product Ben, is to get your projects completed then shout the great results from the mountaintops. We're all waiting anxiously!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Maybe noone saw this thread.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=performance
Maybe his dyno was messed up to.
I am going to say his numbers seem far fetched as he was going from a very good head already, but why lie????
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=performance
Maybe his dyno was messed up to.
I am going to say his numbers seem far fetched as he was going from a very good head already, but why lie????
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Paulz2820
nah i agree with patrick. people need to know that car didn't make 490RWHP with ET heads. "corrupted files" my ***, its called propaganda and they fooled people by saying there heads made 490 when in reality it was 402RWHP! i would be so pissed if i just spent 3 grand on a set of heads comparable to dare i say $1500 patriots. regardless people need to know the claims orginally made by DTC and ET Performance were false who cares if it was because of a computer glich? I as a consumer deserve to know!!
My point was that the owner of the car already cleared up the confusion by creating a new thread entirely with dyno numbers that are right on track for his modifications.
What I don't understand is why Patrick felt the need to make a new thread about it in the wrong section. Maybe he has an agenda of his own. Patrick's car can be used as a very good example in situations like these. How many other guys are out there with AFR 205 heads and cams about the same size and all the bolt-ons that aren't making 470ish. The answer is almost all of them.
We did a 382 with some 240cc ET's and a 228/232 cam that made 485 with an LS6 intake, Breathless headers, and a stock TB. We're going to be adding a FAST 90/90 setup and some 1 7/8th Kooks on it shortly and I'll bet it brakes the 500HP mark. Not bad for a car with a girly cam even by stock-shortblock standards.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Austin, TX
That's pretty harsh words there. Implying that ETP and/or W2W knowlingly advertised false numbers for whatever reason? ETP and W2W have neen around for a long time with ZERO complaints from customers (one of which would be GM).
And I don't think "$1500 patriots" would make the same numbers on this car.
And I don't think "$1500 patriots" would make the same numbers on this car.