Hype surrounding ET Performance heads
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Patrick G
As a moderator, it's my duty to inform and educate the masses on this borad. The problem with posting threads only in the dyno section is that they get less than 10% of the traffic and views as the Internal Engine section does. Lots of people are making decisions on how to part with their hard-earned dollars. Don't you agree this is important information for the board?
Apologies to G-Force and ETP if this appears to be a bash. Nothing could be further from the truth. But I think the best way for you to promote your product Ben, is to get your projects completed then shout the great results from the mountaintops. We're all waiting anxiously!
Apologies to G-Force and ETP if this appears to be a bash. Nothing could be further from the truth. But I think the best way for you to promote your product Ben, is to get your projects completed then shout the great results from the mountaintops. We're all waiting anxiously!
This thread still reeks...
Yea I agree with Patrick, not saying ET isnt an awesome company that makes one of the best heads available, but people should see the true numbers and thats why he posted it. It seems Ben that your saying that he shouldnt have posted this thread, but why not? Again he isnt bashing the heads, just making sure everyone knows it was an error. Also, not everyone knows that with his mods he shouldnt "really" have made those numbers, so its a good lesson to less knowledgable car owners on the board. I mean his numbers are still great considering the sized cam he has and that its on a mustang dyno, but people should know that there was a huge difference from the number he posted as his was one of the first/few posts about the ET heads with dyno numbers, thats all. If I had the money there is no doubt id go with a set of ET heads as I have seen a set and they are absolutely beautiful, so I think everyone needs to calm down and stop bashing each other and just let people recognize that there was an error with the first numbers and see that corrected ones, which is again why patrick posted the thread.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by RyanJ
That's pretty harsh words there. Implying that ETP and/or W2W knowlingly advertised false numbers for whatever reason? ETP and W2W have neen around for a long time with ZERO complaints from customers (one of which would be GM).
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by SideStep
They would never post a dyno-graph...
Not everyone is as nerdy as we are and can readily post whatever.
Yea I wouldnt be so quick to jump on ET or W2W as they are top notch builders/sponsors and wouldnt even think of risking their reputation to sell a few extra sets of head so id throw that idea out the window.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
I think the point Ben is making is that ironically, Patrick is creating negative hype by reposting this with the long biased views in his first post. It's not like he made a post and said "FYI: link." The internet world is 99% hype and hearsay. If so-and-so did this, then well, I can do this. Fallacies galore.
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Well here is a damn impressive dyno with a GRAPH.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/416809-444-rwhp-c6-automatic-etp-215-s.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/416809-444-rwhp-c6-automatic-etp-215-s.html
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Well here is a damn impressive dyno with a GRAPH.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416809
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416809
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by RyanJ
I think the point Ben is making is that ironically, Patrick is creating negative hype by reposting this with the long biased views in his first post. It's not like he made a post and said "FYI: link." The internet world is 99% hype and hearsay. If so-and-so did this, then well, I can do this. Fallacies galore.
Hasn't "bandwagoning" been a no-no for a LONG time now? If I (or any other non-moderator) posted this, it would be locked, we would be called "bandwagoners" and "bashers" (believe me, I speak from first hand experience) Posting this is NO DIFFERENT than posting links to several *edited*-headed cars that dropped valve seats and destroyed engines (that I was loudly and aggressively attacked and threatened with bans/suspensions if I continued to do so).
Oh well. Shawn
Oh well. Shawn
I remeber everyone jumped all over me for not believing the #'s with such a small cam. I kept getting the .050 thou #'s mean nothing. Well they sure don't equal a 100 horse gain either!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Hasn't "bandwagoning" been a no-no for a LONG time now? If I (or any other non-moderator) posted this, it would be locked, we would be called "bandwagoners" and "bashers" (believe me, I speak from first hand experience) Posting this is NO DIFFERENT than posting links to several *edited*-headed cars that dropped valve seats and destroyed engines (that I was loudly and aggressively attacked and threatened with bans/suspensions if I continued to do so).
Oh well. Shawn
Oh well. Shawn
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Shawn and others...guys...does any of my information seem self serving? Although I have AFR heads on my car currently, I am a huge fan of anything that makes my car go faster. That's the reason I've watched these new head threads (ETP, PP, PRC, Dart, AFR, GMPP, Edelbrock) with much enthusiasm. I'm anxious to see what my next mod is going to be. Believe me, I am loyal to horsepower, PERIOD. The intent of this thread was not a bash on ET Performance or their products in any way. The intent was to set the record straight in the appropriate forum that gets the most traffic regarding cylinder head selection and results. This is the right section to do this. I anxiously await the big numbers that ET Heads are bound to put out. You never know what brand I'll be running next year.
Did anyone ask what times this car ran before and after?
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Interesting thread in the dyno section:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/441746-second-dyno-etp-215-heads-edc-cam.html
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/441746-second-dyno-etp-215-heads-edc-cam.html
In a nutshell: Back in November, member DTC dynoed his Z06 with TR 227/224 114 cam on stock heads and it put down 373rwhp/350rwtq (stock LS6 intake and TB) on a Mustang dyno. Next, he added ETP 215 heads (62cc chambers), an Ed Curtis 228/232 113 cam and with no other changes dynoed 479rwhp/429rwtq on W2W's Mustang dyno. That was a tremendous gain and it sold a TON of heads for ETP.
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
The only reason I bring this up is that currently, there are very few dyno/track numbers with ET Heads, yet many are quoting them as the best in the world. A lot of the hype is a result of misinformation from DTC's original tests. Bet ET sold a lot of heads off of that 479rwhp Mustang dyno number. Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19, I think we need to start looking for some more results before we jump too fast on the bandwagon. FWIW, flow numbers only tell half of the story.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Slef-serving? Not really. But I found it interesting that you had to state twice that his numbers sold a large amount of ETP heads (even saying "a TON"). That's hype on the negative slant. It makes it seem like the intent was malicious and obviously people are going to listen. You and I both know that an FYI post would have done the same damn thing without all the posts like we have seen so far in this thread. Thanks for the clarification though.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Now we find out that the W2W dyno file was corrupt and the 479/429 number was not accurate. Fast forward to January. DTC ports his TB and decides to go back to W2W for an accurate dyno. Results?
402rwhp/369rwtq
Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19
402rwhp/369rwtq
Considering that the before/after gains with cam and heads is more like 29/19