View Poll Results: Are the Dart heads worth the extra money?
YES-Dart's are much better!
149
45.02%
NO-PRC LS6 CNC heads are good enough!
182
54.98%
Voters: 331. You may not vote on this poll
Are Darts worth $600 more than TSP's LS6 heads?
#1
Are Darts worth $600 more than TSP's LS6 heads?
I was up all night last night reading through the Dart 205 and 225 posts made in the last 6 months. I haven't really seen any flow numbers that impressed me, but when on a car with a good cam and supporting mods I've seen some real impressive power (440+hp).
Would you all say the Dart 205/225 heads are worth the $600 or so more dollars over TSP's LS6 head? And are the CNC Dart heads worth the extra money to get them CNCd? Wouldn't that change the runners?
Does anyone know if the PV clearance is stock on the Dart heads? I'd still like to run a larger cam with a set of 225s but don't know if that would be an issue.
Would you all say the Dart 205/225 heads are worth the $600 or so more dollars over TSP's LS6 head? And are the CNC Dart heads worth the extra money to get them CNCd? Wouldn't that change the runners?
Does anyone know if the PV clearance is stock on the Dart heads? I'd still like to run a larger cam with a set of 225s but don't know if that would be an issue.
#3
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
I would do the out of the box Darts. You can always modify them later but I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Dart seems to have spent a lot of time on setting up the ports and chambers, my logic was "why mess with it".
I am very pleased with my 205s with a mild cam. They not only gave the car more higher peak #s, but a LOT more low end torque and as a result, drivability
You've heard it many times before, but a lot of people still concentrate on peak #s as a measure of performance. I have compared my own dyno graph to a lot of other posted graphs, and have been presently surprised at how well my "average hp" compares to the higher hp engines.
#6
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If you want to run a bigger cam the ls6 heads will need bigger springs anyway.By the time you do that and the new valve job there doing to these heads you will be pretty close to the darts in price.
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#9
LS1 Tech Administrator
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The Darts are a clean sheet design and have overcome most of the limitations of a factory casting. I would recommend buying the as-cast Darts and not the CNC'd versions. The as-cast Darts have put down consistent numbers on the dyno and are a solid value. When Dart comes up with their own CNC'd version, I might change my opinion though.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#10
Ok this could end up being a stupid question...but are the dart heads being sold by BYUN and TSP the same? There's a $600 difference between the two for the assembled version. Here's the sites:
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=625&catid=40
http://byunspeed.com/product_info.ph...93c3aeb7c9b858
Thanks guys
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=625&catid=40
http://byunspeed.com/product_info.ph...93c3aeb7c9b858
Thanks guys
#12
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are TSP's for $1400 assembled? and patrick will the cam we talked about(235/243 .646/.653 110LSA +1) work with the 225's that have a 2.05/1.60 valves? im sure ill have to flycut now...
Last edited by madmaxz; 04-26-2006 at 03:03 PM.
#14
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iTrader: (4)
Originally Posted by Patrick G
The Darts are a clean sheet design and have overcome most of the limitations of a factory casting. I would recommend buying the as-cast Darts and not the CNC'd versions. The as-cast Darts have put down consistent numbers on the dyno and are a solid value. When Dart comes up with their own CNC'd version, I might change my opinion though.
It's a pretty simple comparison. Your always quick to down our cylinder heads like they won't make good hp... Here's your chance to get data to support your claim.
The PRC stage 1 LS6 heads flow great air flow for the $$ & make very nice power gains.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
#16
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
We're all shocked that you don't like any other CNC cylinder heads besides AFR's. We would like to extend an invitation to you personally, Patrick, to join us on the engine dyno in the next few weeks. We will be dynoing the as-cast Darts, AFR 205's, and a set of our PRC 1.0 LS6 heads on a stock short-block. It would be nice to have a few more witnesses to see the cylinder head swap procedure, as well as all of the results, no matter what they are. It would be even better for you to be there since you're so fond of the AFR's, and continually have the need to down our products. Feel free to give us a call if you'd like to be there, and we'll let you know on the exact date and time.
It's a pretty simple comparison. Your always quick to down our cylinder heads like they won't make good hp... Here's your chance to get data to support your claim.
The PRC stage 1 LS6 heads flow great air flow for the $$ & make very nice power gains.
It's a pretty simple comparison. Your always quick to down our cylinder heads like they won't make good hp... Here's your chance to get data to support your claim.
The PRC stage 1 LS6 heads flow great air flow for the $$ & make very nice power gains.
Galen
#17
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Galen,
Currently we aren't offering anymore cnc ported Dart heads. Maybe at some point we will do them again, but currently we've stopped the CNC porting of Dart castings.
Currently we aren't offering anymore cnc ported Dart heads. Maybe at some point we will do them again, but currently we've stopped the CNC porting of Dart castings.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
#18
The LS6 heads are amazing for the price they have on them and have put down impressive numbers. They are the best head for the buck out there by far IMO. However, I think I would get more torque out of the Dart 225s. He wasn't bashing the TSP products at all-which are great (I'm actually going to get my cam and heads from you all)-he was just saying the Darts are a better head for a little more performance (which they should-they cost $600 more dollars!)
Lets not mention anything else about the AFR heads in this thread, they are in a league of their own and because of that they are way out of my price range. Let's please keep the head comparison to Dart and TSP LS6 heads only. I'd like this thread to stay open long enough to get a lot of opinions on this subject.
I'll most likely be running a 228R cam, a Patrick G torque cam, or an MS3. Still up in the air as I haven't seen many numbers with the torque cam, 228r or MS3 with the darts.
Anyone else have experience with either of these cams with these heads?
What about any of these cams with the PRC LS6 heads?
What kind of numbers are you all seeing with your setups?
Thanks!
Lets not mention anything else about the AFR heads in this thread, they are in a league of their own and because of that they are way out of my price range. Let's please keep the head comparison to Dart and TSP LS6 heads only. I'd like this thread to stay open long enough to get a lot of opinions on this subject.
I'll most likely be running a 228R cam, a Patrick G torque cam, or an MS3. Still up in the air as I haven't seen many numbers with the torque cam, 228r or MS3 with the darts.
Anyone else have experience with either of these cams with these heads?
What about any of these cams with the PRC LS6 heads?
What kind of numbers are you all seeing with your setups?
Thanks!
#19
Originally Posted by Jake the SSnake
If you want to run a bigger cam the ls6 heads will need bigger springs anyway.By the time you do that and the new valve job there doing to these heads you will be pretty close to the darts in price.