exactly! slap that bitch into a cam genie or a cam doctor and be done with it already

 

nope

 

btw, i find it funny that people keep saying, "oh, just throw it on a cam doctor"...



... who here has a cam doctor?
... and who is willing to buy the cam, just to measure it...??





what about wanting to know because you NOT slapping a cam in a stock motor... lol.

 

Guys,

I had better respond to this to get the facts our rather than just let the pile on happen. I have most of the facts straight but I fired the salesman who did the ticket for what ever that is worth.

I will try to explain the whole situation in both cars in question.

First, the spring car had "Absolute Speed" cylinder heads on it. Absolute was told to start using 921 springs at some point, but this was one of the sets that must have missed the change over.

I had a new Salesman here who only knew of the 921 springs being used because we didn't like the way the 977 springs lost their pressure with our cams over time. So the salesman never thought that it had anything but 921 springs in it.

When the customer came in to have springs changed as a precaution, we were surprised our self to find that it still had 977 springs. when this was discovered, even though the customer claimed that we "did it on purpose" we credited him the difference between the cost of a set of 921 springs and a set of 977 springs.

Then we installed the new 977 springs and did the labor for FREE. We only charged him for the nes 977 springs but NO LABOR for the valve spring change.

We did a transmission R&R plus a full Transmission rebuild. There were more parts that needed to be replaced once it was opened up. Trans parts cost $867. Then we did a slave cylinder, moser U bolts, and a credit of $445 for the difference in the springs, for a total Transmission/spring replacement/Slave cylinder/U bolts/and tax for $1705.61 We quoted $700 for the R&R and rebuild labor, PLUS Parts.

Don't forget that this is a full M6 R&R plus rebuild that we do in house. It also included the Slave cyl,Trans parts and a Credit for $445 from the spring mistake.

So we credited him for the spring mixup, and took care of the spring problem as well. We could not install 921s in the heads because they were machined for the 977s so we could not go back.

If there is a 15 hp loss then it could be from the springs not being up to the task. I think the dispute came when the customer wanted the new springs free also even with 8000 miles on them. That was not justified.

The customer with the Turbo, came in with a broken Turbo car. It was not our package. It had broken headers, turned lifter, wiped cam and was just a mess. the customer bought a Turbo Technologies Hot Side kit and we adapted his old turbo set up to the new Turbo Tech kit because he didin't want to spen any more money.
he wanted to try to get 700+ hp, and it was not possible with that turbo size and fuel system.

None of this really matters because the car got here with a destroyed cam that had the lifter stuck in the lifter bore sideways. The lifter wouldn't even come out of the bore. They had to pull the cam out the back of the engine and knock the lifter down after the cam was taken out. So we were lucky to save the block anyway.

So this engine had so many problems before it came in that we did everything to save it even though my guys spent triple time on it with many unbilled hours. I believe that it was running out of fuel at 5800 rpms too.

The engine was what it was. and it was not our engine work. still, we salvaged it and made a fairly nice ride out of it.

So that is the story. Most shops would have not done as much as we did in either situation. We do our best to ALWAYS do the right thing. Sometimes the customer feels grateful, and sometimes they feel cheated. In any case, I do what is fair for the customer and for my company.

Thanks again

Lou Gigliotti LGM

As for "slapping the cam on a cam doctor" It has been done many times on some but not all of our cams. And if knowing the specs of your cam makes you sleep better, so be it. It is just our policy. Some cams we only install in house. LG

 

actually, you did put 921 springs on the car, so which is it??? well, that's what your tech told me. i've had the valve covers off, but i haven't actaully measured the springs to verify that 921's are the springs in the car.

that's the exact point i'm getting at. you all don't pay attention to details worth a darn. details seem to get lost going from your salesmen to techs, and vice versa.

and the heads were not bought through LG motorsports, i already had them and the 977 springs. this was the other dispute i had. you all said you put the springs on, but truth is when i gave you the heads they already had them. weather or not you put new $90 springs on (remember, i already had the seats and retainers for the springs) is still questionable IMO after my expierience with you.

as for the transmission, those parts may have been needed, i can't argue that as i never saw (or heard for that matter until i got there). i paid $1700, plus the $445 credit for a total bill of $2145. take out $700 for labor and that is $1445 in parts alone. i still, to this day, just wish i would've gotten one damn call that said, "hey, there is about $1500 in parts you need." it never happened and i still can't figure out what would cost $1500 for tranny rebuild parts (synco's, shift forks, sliders, etc.), but oh well.



you have your feelings, i have mine. my nearly 10k i spent in a years time will go elsewhere from now on and i will continue to tell people of my expierience at your shop as it is first hand knowledge and not hearsay like most of the people on these forums


exact same thing i was told, you all must see this a lot from us out of town boys

 

I just assumed that you bought the heads at LGM. But the problem is that 977 springs require machining, with different spring seats and different retainers, if you already had 977 springs on then we would have had to put 977 springs back on, which is where I think this confusion came in.

The whole problem is that my saleman thought they put 921s in and they had no choice but to put 977s back. And because of that we refunded the cost of the spring difference.

This was an honest mistake by a salesman and we made it up to you. You didn't buy the heads from us and all we were going to change springs after a year. it was 8000 miles before we saw the car after the mistake was made.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you brought your own 921 springs in for us to replace and that was when we figured out that the car had 977 springs in it.

So we refunded you for the original 921 springs that you were billed for in 2004, and we did that in 2005, one year and 8000 miles later.

let me restate that. we did the work in 2004, and made the mistake and charged you for 921 springs. then in 2005, you came in and we could not put your customer supplied 921 springs in because you had 977 springs. So you took your 921s back, we refunded you for the 2004 set that was billed by mistake, and we installed the 977s because we could not put 921s in with the machine work done for the 977s.

I know it is hard to give any credit to LGM for doing the right thing but you had the first work done in 2004, then 8000 miles later, we fixed the mistake and refunded the difference, then we gave you a deal on the Transmission rebuild which I am sure you won't agree with.

The error was in the bill saying 921s and not 977s. We paid you back for that, and did it one year later. The transmission has nothing to do with it except that you didn't answer your phone to be told the price difference. Just like today when I just tried to call you.

Like I said, that salesman is no longer with us. But with the damaged parts in your transmission, the only other option would be for ME to pay for your worn out transmission?? We can only do so much, and there are some we can never satisfy.

Thanks
Lou Gigliotti

 

mostly correct, i figured it out up in tulsa when i went to change the springs. then i called you about it and you were fairly upset with me about calling you out on. when really, you should've been nothing but polite to me no matter what (and i was completely rational with the situation).



and trust me, when my car was there i talked to you all several times about when it would be ready (as it took several weeks and i needed it back). never a mention of $1500 in parts (even when i was told we were waiting on parts to be delivered). i did not want the work done for free, i never expected that but that's how you are trying to make me look. i just wanted an update, you can imagine the shock when my bill was that high.

but this is a pointless arguement anyway, neither of our feelings are going to change one bit.

i'm actaully a really easy going guy and get along with people well normally, i promise
i'll call you back tomorrow, i don't have my phone with me, sorry about that. i am definetly not trying to avoid you which is clear, i have no problem with talking with you and letting you know how i feel.

 

i hate shops that operate like that... they rack up more money, without so much as a phone call, then when you get there, you gotta sell a kidney to cover the overcharges.... not saying yalls shop is like that, maybe it was a mistake what happend to KG.

lou, yall should have called him and explained why it was gonna cost more than the quote, before you started.... that is one thing that can **** alot of people off, especially the "not so rich" non corvette owners. the only other quall i have against yall is the whole "secretive cam" bullsh1t... stupid if u ask me...

 

Okay - you've got the bad obviously guys and your all entitled. Its our forum to use. However, LG actually saved me in a similar circumstance.

I had ordered their AFR205s and they came in. I opted to go with the LS1 hotcam (I know, big mistake.....well, there are some advantages of that cam in my setup). Anyway - I decided to go looking for some more ponies and went with the G5X2 cam.

Problem was, and thankfully LG checked. The AFR package I had purchased months and months before (and received) had the Comp921s. However, the shop I went to for putting the engine together read that the Hotcam was to have ONLY their springs used with it (with the presumption stock springs were being used with the Hotcam).

So LG made me aware that the springs on it were not the ones which should have been on those heads - so they took care of it for me and kept my ride safe.

I respect Predator-Z. He's a guru. I'm not and that's why I don't mind buying a cam from LG.

To the guy asking for a date with Lou's daughter...I don't know how old you are, but watch out....you might have a daughter some day to and somebody with a mouth like yours might come around sometime with the same request..... If you don't like Lou's shop - that's your business, please don't bring this thread down into something dark like that. We all want to have fun, have fast cars (or trucks in my case) and race 'em around.

 

Look,
we did try to call, but obviously not hard enough. The lift was tied up and it had to get finished. We bought the parts from GM and I didn't set that price.

When people complain about what we charge, I just say that I would be glad to do a trade or a Barter. Or when I ask a customer to give me a deal on whatever it is that they do (Plumber, electrician, roofer, doctor, lawyer, etc) they always quote a price that it also out of this world.
The cost of life is getting higher, and our toys are the first thing to go. All I can say is that if any of you want to give me half price work in whatever trade you work in, then I will give you the same deal. I do trades all the time. but they get a fair trade.

But forget all that. We don't do business that way, we try to always call the customer and if there is a way, we just put the car on hold while we wait to hear.

Don't forget, that the salesman who dropped the ball is GONE, Fired, Canned, etc.

LG

 

i must say, lou you seem like a good dude, sorry i ripped **** on your business. it seems as though you did all you could. but for me, being a broke college kid if i were in KG's shoes, ida been pissed too... you gotta pay to play though, and this stuff isnt cheap.
i just wish you would give cam specs on your cams.... im still an ls1 squid, but will be building a motor soon, and when i get to picking/installing a cam, i will choose based on specs, and install w/ the help of a cam card, not based on LGM's recommendation.

 

He was fired why?

A salesman fired for an honest mistake?


I think we all see who the salesman is. He is the guy trying to tell us what he thinks we want to hear. I don't see too many buying it...

 

You are correct sir!

Ed

 

[QUOTE=PREDATOR-Z]The poeple who want cam specs when they buy a cam is not to duplicate it (hint: they allready have it), it is to degree it, QUOTE]

If you need a cam card to degree a hydraulic roller cam you are a fricking moran to begin with. If you have a degree wheel on it, you will be able to find out any cam specs you could want. I love how people think morans are guru's on this site.

 

[QUOTE=Jessica]Yeah, just like the morons who can't spell. It's so simple to grab a dictionary and learn to spell right.

 

[QUOTE=Jessica]Which is exactly why I believe your a guru too, Jessica!!! Too bad that you don't think that we know this already?? I'm thinking about removing your guru status.....

 

[QUOTE=Jessica]
moran=moron sweetie....
the fact is, when im building my motor i will be searching for a cam based on specs, so if no specs, no choosie.

trey

 

I am another one that wouldn't buy a cam without a cam card. Kind of hard to figure out what the dynamic compression ratio is, if you don't know when the intake valve closes. Yes you can figure this out........AFTER....... you buy it. But then it may not be what you want.
I could understand Lou not giving out the cam specs for his race car cam. But for cams he sells to anyone that wants one. Come on? I don't see the logic in it. If another cam grinder wanted to copy the cam, all they have to do is buy it. It can't be copied protected. So why keep the specs a secret from the people that just wants to buy it? Doesn't make any sense. I think it's just an old fashion sales tactic. Making the people that don't know better think they are getting a top secret cam that magically makes twice the power of any other cam. lol
Some people ask why do you need to know the cam specs? Well, why do you need to know what your compression ratio is? Why do you need to know what your injector size is? Why would you need to know your piston Dia on a new motor build? Kind of like going out and buying a new PC without knowing what processor and size of memory it has, and all you get is, it will be fast. Well, for some that is good enough, and for others like me, it isn't. This is my 2 cents worth.

 

[QUOTE=treysoucie]And you are doing the right thing. Since LG will not provide you the specs on certain cams you won't use one of his.

What is so hard or brings up the complaint all the time? You want specs, then buy from someone who will provide them. LG has been in business for a long time now, so I don't think keeping his specs a secret is hurting him as much as it seems to hurt some of you guys. I do agree, that it may hurt business, but I don't think it is hurting much.

p.s. I don't even have an LG cam in my car anymore.


Predator Z - I can't give you the info as the engine is being rebuilt, and I haven't been in the states but for 18 days over the past 2 years. I don't remember any specs.

 

[QUOTE=Ben01C5]
the fact that this is a thread about LGM trying to be mysterious, and it kinda pisses ppl. off that this company has a gay policy like this.


*edit*
200 posts, bwahahaha