soontobeLS1

I have been looking at putting a Procharger on my stock LS1. But thinking of it now, the amount of $ I would spend on a Procharger set-up, I probably could have a brand new engine and more cubic inches (402 Aluminum Longblock). I will be spending about $12,000 Canadian after it's all said and done.

So, wondering if anybody has any info they wish to bring forward. I like the idea of more cubes/rumbling cammed car and more tourque down low.

That being said.......

Looking at the extra cost of labour and such, how would the swap work, old engine out, new one in...Can I use all my current exhaust? Does the new engine require transferring over of my current accessories? (AC/Waterpump etc.). I assume, the car will have to be strapped to the dyno and re-tuned so my computer can run it properly.

Thx for any info....Last qwik question, the 402 would be of an LS2 sort (as that seems to be the most popular build as it starts out as a 364ci???). Would the LS2 fit up to my current tranny/driveline etc. Would a LS1 clutch (Textralia) work for the LS2 block????

Thx for reading and offering any help.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

Can't answer the other details because that's what I will need to work out also, but I had the same questions and ended up going back to an LS2 402 build.

After selling my complete motor and building up a new one to suit my goals, I can make 500-600rwhp for less money and virtually no weight added to the car which is a plus.

LS2 402 + L92 Heads + L76 Intake + A good cam will get it done a lot more cost-effectively than forced induction.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

Couldn't disagree more.




Forced induction is the way to go. Do a search here on the forums. There's a guy making 900 hp with the stock (unported) heads and a turbo.


I've had NA motors, one with 700 hp (a real Pontiac motor) and they'll never compete with a FI motor.



You'll need to upgrade rods, pistons, and main caps, but you'll make way more power.

Kraest

iTrader: (3)

With Forced Induction, more power is just a pulley swap and possibly a splash of racegas away

That is.....until #7 explodes

I'd just go FI, then when the motor blows (not really IF, but WHEN ) go with a forged rebuild and more boost.

FI is more driveable and gets better fuel mileage, too. It also has the potential to obviously make a ton more power.

Mike

06cobaltSS

go with the 402 setup. Forge the motor and keep the compresion low and go with a blower cam. You'll still make good power at least 450 rwhp and you can go to FI later on when you want to make stupid power.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

i am an FI guy, FI is to say the least breath taking but its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive then N/A
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/567592-real-price-forced-induction.html

dangerous8

i personally believe that there is no replacement for displacement. i've seen engines side by side one with more cubes and one with turbos and when it comes down to it in cars or trucks there is no replacement for displacement and like 06cobaltss says build it to where if you are not satisfied with the power then you can force it later

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

You really just need to set a power goal and go from there. There are downsides to both...

Cubes - not too terribly expensive, but if you have to go with a 4" or larger crank, you are gonna start getting in to some decent bucks (although Eagle makes some reasonably priced stuff). What you usually end up giving up is your fuel economy...more air in = more fuel needed, plain and simple. If you go with an LS2 block, you'll need some adapter harnesses and different covers (all of which you can find on here with a quick search).

FI - Expensive by itself, and you usually add weight to the car while you're at it. If you go with a supercharger, you can keep the exhaust you have. If you go turbo, you'll be fabbing up new stuff from the manifolds on back. Plus, you might end up losing your A/C and moving some stuff around in the engine bay to make room. The tune will be the most important part here, so no skimping there. If you end up cracking the #7 ringland (very common, and happens due to the intake manifold design), you'll be getting a new shortblock too. Plus you'll have excessive crankcase pressure that'll need to be vented somehow, blah blah blah...not an easy solution. But damn the power potential...cruising, you'll get decent fuel economy (well, depending on your entire package), but if you get on it a lot, you'll do just as bad as a large engine.

Both will require a fuel system to support, so that's kinda a moot point. As for a clutch, even with an LS2 block, you'll be able to use an LS1 clutch.

Personally, I'm gonna go with more cubes vs. forced induction. I won't have as much power in the end, but I don't like the idea of adding more weight to my already heavy car, and I don't want to go through the hassle of doing a custom 2-bar or 3-bar MAP sensor setup to tune it properly. Plus, more cubes fits in my budget a little better than FI. I don't like to cheap out on stuff, and if I didn't cheap out on FI, I'd be in WAY over my head.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

Example?

There have been many a thread started about this very subject, in the end numbers and et's dont lie, yes it is more expensive to build an FI set-up but the gains is also so much greater

Cheap way is N/A (not that cheap means bad) yes you get decent to moderate power
FI you get 500ish with even a remote sts type kit with better streetablity
Do the research check all the forums i think your eyes will open.

notatruews6

iTrader: (3)

I vote Cubes. Yea sure you can have your turbo/supercharged stock bottem ls1, but boost is a drug and your gonna want more, your stock bottom end can only handle so much before BANG. With a Stroker you get good performance and durability, unless your a cheap *** when it comes to building it. Like stated above i would recommend going with a lower compression stroker, that is built for boost or nawz for later. just my .02.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

When I was heads cam LS1 I was keeping up with the blown cars making about 100 hp more then me. My friend haso had a vortech blown TA making 505 rw and said my car felt about just as strong when I was making 430rwhp on a stock motor.

Top end on a stroker is nasty. I would put money on a 500 rw stroker destroying a 500 rwhp blown stock motor any day of the week.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

jermzz , i would take that bet... a turbo engine might make 500 rwhp just the same as an N/A but would produce more TQ and the myth that turbos dont make low end power on ls1 is just that a myth when set up correctly.. Most poeple when they think of turbos they think lag , that in turn is due to the smaller 4cly and 6cly that had spool problems ls1 or v8s have gobs of natural tq.
Everything equal CI vs CI the FI will produce more power and at a great usable curve.

Gold Phoenix

iTrader: (1)

I would also say it depends what kind of sound you want out of the car. Do you want the little lopey or choppy idle quality with the bigger cubes? Or do you prefer the stock sounding idle and driveability until you hit the throttle hard? My first setup was a completely stock LS1 with an air lid, stock exhaust system with cutout, and 150 shot of nitrous. I made 463whp and 508wtq running 11.6s at 119mph. If I had more bolt-ons like hi-ratio rocker arms, header/orp, electric water pump, FAST intake/TB, tuning and so on I could have hit the 500whp mark. The car would sound and drive stock until I hit the spray. But with this H/C and dual 3", I like the lopey idle. I had some Mustangs back down after I just mildly accelerated to the speed limit. Though the header and cam only is not as power as the nitrous setup, but I had more tuning left. Like everyone has said it depends on what you want out of you car.

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

But that doesn't usually equate to quicker track times. Go look at the list in the drag section. I'll take 500 n/a over 500 boost any day. Screw dyno races. I believe the original poster will not be able to buy a new engine if he goes f/i. I don't think he wants his stock shortblock to eventually blow up out in the middle of nowhere like it would. 500 is his goal, not 900. 402 all the way. He will have a new motor and if he ends up wanting crazy power he can spray it. Then your talking serious torque. If he was wanting 600+ all the time and could afford a new shortblock in addition to the f/i setup, then that would be different. For his goal I would recommend the 402. Having every eye on your car everywhere you go because it sounds like a Nextel Cup ride is a bonus

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

LOL. You'd be easy money at any track and even more so on the track....


I've had both, and there is NO WAY NA is the way to go unless you don't have the money. Most guys go NA then add nitrous. The end up paying double to triple over what the FI stuff costs in the end, they just space it out over a couple of seasons... And make the piston and bearing companies very happy....

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

HP is a function of TQ, TQ is what gets you down the track HP is what keeps you going.
All things with the cars equal, there is less than100 lbs more in a Turbo system and even less in a SC system 100=10hp, i'll take that added TQ in trade but thats just me .

Yes there are some n/a cars in the 10's and a few in the 9's, very gutted and light.
some are refered to as daily drivers or grocery getters, i guess if you had to use them as such you would , but it aint pleasant.

Do what you can afford , N20 isnt a bad choice either , you can keep a higher comp while using it, but not if you ever plan on getting serious with FI.
Cubics vs FI.. there are stock cubic (ls1) fi cars in the 9's in full weight.
It all comes down to money and how fast you want to go.

1slow01Z71

iTrader: (36)

I have a 418 in my truck and well Im not happy with it, one of my buddies has a 364 with a turbo on it, he gets twice the mileage and made 550rwhp on 7 cylinders whereas I would have been lucky to hit 460 with my setup. Now Im curing that problem with a turbo on my motor too. IMO go conservative with boost and slowly get the parts to do a nice forged motor. With the procharger you could just do some eagle rods and some nice forged pistons and if you did the work yourself be into it for less then a grand for a brand new motor and easliy 700rwhp with a D1SC.

QSPres

iTrader: (15)

And I had a 10.09 second 1970 GTO with a NA Pontiac motor in it that weighed 3400lbs and had the stock rear suspension. Wasn't a daily driver, or grocery getter, but I could (and sometimes did) drive it on the street (lights, blinkers, etc).




Just so some of you know my qualifications.

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

You would be easy money and I don't care what your "qualifications" are. I think you fail to realise we are talking about 500 n/a v.s. 500 f/i. Two LSX engines that put out 500rwhp. The n/a one being a 402 stroker, not a h/c engine. Advantage: 402.

KHShapiro

iTrader: (10)

QSPres what where the specs on the engine? compression? 3400 lbs in what i am guessing was either a gen1 small block or big block pontiac, you had to be putting out hella numbers, i mean 3400lbs at 10.09 you had 9's in it easy. you are talking 1/4 mile ofcourse.
While i agree with you in your post #15 and i dont doubt your numbers in the
3400lb gto,that engine had to be hard to handle on the open road.
One of the rags out there did a write up recently comparing an ls2 to a first gen engine in power outputs. I believe they comapred the ls2 to a 406 and they tried to build both engines up.
They got the numbers very close to each other but the 406 wasnt street friendly, it was , well radical, and compared to the ls based engine it had reached its limit for street use and gas.
Point is apples to apples.