Miles in Michigan

Anyone have the ARE Stree Eliminator heads? They use stock sized valves, and are milled to whatever compression ratio you want. Cam, heads, springs, pushrods, retainers, are $1650. I was almost set to get a cam only install (leave heads stock), until I saw them.

ARE also has Stage I heads (2.02in./1.57ex. valves) for $2300, and Stage II heads (2.055 or 2.08 in./1.60 ex. valves) for $2800.

I don't want to go too big on the cam, nothing larger than a T1 or Hammer cam. Maybe a 218/218/.560/.560/114.

Is it worth the extra $1700 (1000 for parts and ~700 for install) for the heads with stock sized valves, vs. the cam by itself? I don't know if they'll make much more power than the cam only. Stage 1 heads will cost ~$2400 more than a cam by itself, but only $650 more than stock size valved heads.

My car's a 99 6-speed corvette. I'm also getting LT Headers and a 2001 intake manifold, but leaving the stock cat-back. Undecided on whether to get a UD pulley.

What should I expect for peak RWHP with stock heads, if I get a T1/B1 or Hammer? 375RWHP? Stock-valved heads will maybe do 390rwhp, stage 1 heads 400, stage 2 heads 420rwhp? Those are just WAGs. Dyno sheets vary so widely on the internet, I don't know what to expect.

Thanks,
Miles

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

If your doing heads and cam, I'd do a cat back too, the stock cat-back will become a bottle neck and hurt power with any decent heads and cam package. Not much point in doing headers if you keep the stock cat back.

I recall seeing a post a while back where someone tried them and got around 380 rwhp, but they didn't have all the bolt on's or tuning. I think the gut feeling was with tuning and all bolt on's 400rwhp was possible. I find that easy to belive since some LS1 can hit a peak of around 400rwhp with cam and bolt on's alone.

I would think the ARE heads would be able to give at least 400+ rwhp (peak) and help with the entire power curve more than just a cam and bolt on set up.

Good Luck

Bugblndr

That someone would be me. Mods and dyno results in the signature.

SSINFUL

It's only $$$, right? J/k.

Seriously, why have regrets? Get the 2.055 heads w/ (at least) a 216/222 .570 112 cam, and you won't haveta do it over.

UD pulleys can be scary. I went ATI (this time) for the peace of mind.

And, that stock cat-back is gonna be a roadblock *stealing* real hp if ya leave it on...

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>If your doing heads and cam, I'd do a cat back too, the stock cat-back will become a bottle neck and hurt power with any decent heads and cam package.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSINFUL:
<strong>And, that stock cat-back is gonna be a roadblock *stealing* real hp if ya leave it on...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that true of f-bodies, C5s, or both? I've got a C5, and I've heard that aftermarket exhaust is more for sound than power. I'm perfectly happy with the sound the way it is.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSINFUL:
<strong>It's only $$$, right? J/k.

Seriously, why have regrets? Get the 2.055 heads w/ (at least) a 216/222 .570 112 cam, and you won't haveta do it over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, stage II heads cost almost $3000 more than cam only. Some cam only cars dyno 390rwhp, and some stage II heads&cam cars dyno 410rwhp. If there's only a 20rwhp difference, it's not worth $3000 to me. But if I'd only get 375 with the cam, and 430 with heads&cam, it'd be worth the $3000.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSINFUL:
<strong>UD pulleys can be scary. I went ATI (this time) for the peace of mind.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where'd you get the pulley, and how is ATI different than other pulleys?

Thanks guys.

DenzSS

ATI makes a great pulley for a ton of money. You're better off trying an ASP Pulley. 99% of the time, no one has a problem.

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bugblndr:
<strong>Mods and dyno results in the signature.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What exhaust do you have on your car? I'm curious because the difference between cutout open and closed was 10hp and 10ft-lbs. If a cutout is only worth 10, then I'd leave my exhaust stock, because aftermarket exhaust would have to gain less than a cutout does.

Also, what are your cam specs, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks.

OBSSSD

The C5 catback flows well but if you are taking the cats off and/or running headers the you should find some Z06 exhausts used. They flow well and will give you 15-18rwhp with heads/cam/headers/no cats.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I was in this position at one time.. I would go with a good set of heads with your cam and headers.. Please do not just look at the peak #'s. Look at the #'s under the curve with heads. I have seen many cars dyno less than other H/C cars only to beat them at the track and on the street secondary to more power under the curve. Also, choose wisely when it comes to H/C. I would do a search and look to see who is making the power consistently. Do not buy a H/C from someone who might just have the highest H/C today, but who has made consistent 420rwhp and above setups. I emphasize on CONSISTENT!!!!

<small>[ May 21, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>

Bugblndr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What exhaust do you have on your car? I'm curious because the difference between cutout open and closed was 10hp and 10ft-lbs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stock WS6 exhaust is on my car
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Also, what are your cam specs, if you don't mind me asking?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">220/226 114 with .544 lift

Personally, I'm not from the school of "why go Stage I when there's a Stage II. My car gets drag raced 4-5 times per year, and I run open lapping 2-3 times a year, and AutoX 4-5 times per year. Otherwise, its used as my daily driver from March-November.

Too much power = cage requirements, and I don't want to go there. BTW, I love the power, idle, and driveability, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it the exact same. I know I'll never be "the fastest", but even with a Stage II I wouldn't be. I'm faster than 99% of the cars out there though.

Now onto the track for its first visit this weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Richard

T/A Fan Dan

ARE Stage1 here with a Lunati 218/223 560/560 114LCA SLP LT's/Random Tech High Flow Cats/Borla

A-4 Dyno pig 355hp/383torque

Those numbers are with a 3500 stall and like somebody said dyno numbers don't do many cars justice. Unfortunately I have not had the car to the track to see what the numbers are, but Mikey at Rapidmotorsports thinks it is a high 11 sec car. Keep in mind your car is lighter than a fully loaded 2000 WS6. I know spectulating on the time is bench racing so I don't want to dwell on times, what I do know is that the car pulls like a frieght train and I am glad I went with the Stage 1 set-up. I am very happy with it. The only thing I wish I had done differently is put a bigger cam in so I could get the lumpity lump. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
ARE stage 1's are just like pretty much everybodies elses Stage2 setups. Don't undersell yourself short or you will be kicking yourself and spending more money to upgrade.

CHRISPY

I have ARE "Stage 1" valved heads (2.02/1.57) with a pretty aggressive port.

Made 385RWHP and 439RWTQ unlocked and ran a traction limited: 1.79 sixty
Best ET of:
11.78
Best mph of:
122.60mph through full exhaust

My cam is 226/234 112LSA .554/.575 lift
Car weight is 3470 with me in the car.
Exhaust is Mac headers with offroad, my own catback (3 inch intermediate pipe, dynomax 3 inch ultraflo muffler, mandrel bent 3 inch tailpipe)
I also have TP4400 stall, 4.11 gears and 28 inch slicks.
Hope this helps,
Chris

<small>[ May 21, 2002, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Please do not just look at the peak #'s. Look at the #'s under the curve with heads. Also, choose wisely when it comes to H/C. I would do a search and look to see who is making the power consistently. Do not buy a H/C from someone who might just have the highest H/C today, but who has made consistent 420rwhp and above setups. I emphasize on CONSISTENT!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That kind of information is hard to find. I've been looking for dynos on the web, and I never see two cars that are identical except for the heads or cam themselves. Everyone has different headers, or old vs new intake manifold, different exhaust (or cutout), stock PCM vs tuning, stock vs UD pulley, etc. Even then, they are dynoed on different dynos in different weather (although SAE corrected).

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Vet exhaust maybe fine for stock and bolt, but to get the best out of your heads and cam set up, I'd upgrade the catback too or get a cut out.

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>Vet exhaust maybe fine for stock and bolt, but to get the best out of your heads and cam set up, I'd upgrade the catback too or get a cut out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but Bugblndr's car (with the heads/cam I'll probably go with) makes 380rwhp with stock exhaust, and 390rwhp with a cutout. No way will an aftermarket exhaust make as much power as a cutout, right? So aftermarket exhaust would be good for maybe 5rwhp, tops?

Maybe because it is stock sized valves, and a cam with 0.544 lift, it doesn't gain as much from opening up the exhaust?

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bugblndr:
<strong>[QUOTE]220/226 114 with .544 lift</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that a Comp Cam? I tried looking at their online catalog for their available cam lobes, but didn't see anything like that. Just the following:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Lobe
Number duration lift with 1.7RR
3750 206 0.513
3751 212 0.52
3765 214 0.522
3766 216 0.524
3752 218 0.527
3767 220 0.53
3753 224 0.534
3755 228 0.537</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know they have more than that, but can't find them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bugblndr:
<strong>[QUOTE]My car gets drag raced 4-5 times per year, and I run open lapping 2-3 times a year, and AutoX 4-5 times per year. Otherwise, its used as my daily driver from March-November.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My car will see even less drag races than yours, and I've only done open lapping once so far (signed up for another in July). I drive mine year round. Like you I don't want to put in a big cam in to make the car a beast at the drag strip, but make it less enjoyable the other 99% of the time.

Bugblndr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that a Comp Cam? I tried looking at their online catalog for their available cam lobes, but didn't see anything like that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I got the cam from ARE and it was installed at the same time. I believe its a Lunati custom grind.

The car ran pretty well on stock tuning with a Hypertech to raise the rev limiter. Last month I had ARE use LS1 Edit on it for the rev limiter, to bump up the idle, and to delete the P0300. The car drives great and sounds great IMHO.

Perhaps down the road I'll get it dyno tuned with LS1 Edit and see what's left on the table.

Richard

CHRISPY

I thought Bugblndr had MAc headers and offroad Ypipe with stock WS6 catback and cutout?
That is a big difference from stock exhaust. If you meant only stock catback my apologies.
I would consider TPIS long tube headers with the stock vette catback and dual 2.5 inch cutouts at least.
Cheers,
Chris

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

Bugblndr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought Bugblndr had MAc headers and offroad Ypipe with stock WS6 catback and cutout?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is correct Chris.

Richard

Miles in Michigan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>I thought Bugblndr had MAc headers and offroad Ypipe with stock WS6 catback and cutout?
That is a big difference from stock exhaust. If you meant only stock catback my apologies.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, yes, I did mean stock catback.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>I would consider TPIS long tube headers with the stock vette catback and dual 2.5 inch cutouts at least.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, that might be what I'll do. I'll probably open them only a few times a year, unless a Honda Civic with an 8" coffee can exhaust pulls next to me at a stoplight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Are electrically operated cutouts any good?

Thanks.