That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :(
06-17-2002, 06:38 AM
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That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( Day 2 post cam install, and it still won't start... Everyones ideas have been exhausted and it's my daily driver. I'm beyond sick. There is just nothing showing up to be the culprit and it's pissing me off. I've taken a personal day off today I'm so sick with stress and disgust. Here is the thread I've been working with thus far on LS1.COM for some background:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hreadid=112341
For all the great advice I got, I still found nothing. I'm hoping maybe I'll find someone else out her in the LS1TECH community that has that one solid sparkling answer.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Anyone a mechanic or know one that travels and works for peanuts? This project has left me broke both financially and emotionally...
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hreadid=112341
For all the great advice I got, I still found nothing. I'm hoping maybe I'll find someone else out her in the LS1TECH community that has that one solid sparkling answer.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Anyone a mechanic or know one that travels and works for peanuts? This project has left me broke both financially and emotionally...
06-17-2002, 06:46 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( try pulling out the cam position sensor...you might've bumped it during the cam install which will make it inoperative.
06-17-2002, 06:55 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( It sounds like you are 180 off. The dots will still line up, but you will be firing at the wrong time.
06-17-2002, 07:04 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99taws6:
<strong>It sounds like you are 180 off. The dots will still line up, but you will be firing at the wrong time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So the dots would actually be in the same location as if they were right? ie Visually checking the gears on a right engine and a 180deg off one would be the same?
<strong>It sounds like you are 180 off. The dots will still line up, but you will be firing at the wrong time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So the dots would actually be in the same location as if they were right? ie Visually checking the gears on a right engine and a 180deg off one would be the same?
06-17-2002, 07:26 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( thats not right..
there is only one Dot-to-Dot.
the crank position sensor above the starter motor didnt get unplugged did it?
any other sensors get unplugged ?
check all of them thoroughly and also check the three ground wires at the back of the drivers cyl head.
got fuel?
does the motor turn over even?
lets get some specifics on this so we can work on getting it running for you.
steve frank
there is only one Dot-to-Dot.
the crank position sensor above the starter motor didnt get unplugged did it?
any other sensors get unplugged ?
check all of them thoroughly and also check the three ground wires at the back of the drivers cyl head.
got fuel?
does the motor turn over even?
lets get some specifics on this so we can work on getting it running for you.
steve frank
06-17-2002, 07:37 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( I was there installing the cam, so here is what happened. The dot on the cam gear was facing 6o'clock, we took it off, took the stock cam out, put the T1 cam in, when finished, the dot was facing 6 o'clock as well. So how could the timing be off any??
Here is one hypothesis that I am coming up with. We had a hex wrench in the flywheel so the crank wouldnt turn when we took the pulley off, well for some unknown reason, this wrench was left in the flywheel after the starter was installed (the guy that said he took it out....didnt take it out) so when we first tried to start it, all you would hear was the starter turning... Now wouldnt this still shoot fuel in the cylinder?? once we found the problem, we took the starter back off, took out the wrench, and bolted everything back up...when he first tried to start it again, we heard a loud "POP". I am guessing that was the excess fuel in the cylinder. Now it just turns over. Would the plugs be fouled now? He takes the plugs out, they are wet, once dried, he puts them back in, turns it over some more, takes the plugs back out to find they are wet.
Here is one hypothesis that I am coming up with. We had a hex wrench in the flywheel so the crank wouldnt turn when we took the pulley off, well for some unknown reason, this wrench was left in the flywheel after the starter was installed (the guy that said he took it out....didnt take it out) so when we first tried to start it, all you would hear was the starter turning... Now wouldnt this still shoot fuel in the cylinder?? once we found the problem, we took the starter back off, took out the wrench, and bolted everything back up...when he first tried to start it again, we heard a loud "POP". I am guessing that was the excess fuel in the cylinder. Now it just turns over. Would the plugs be fouled now? He takes the plugs out, they are wet, once dried, he puts them back in, turns it over some more, takes the plugs back out to find they are wet.
06-17-2002, 07:54 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( ok lest start here.
on the fuel rail, drivers side there is a cap on the front end. take the cap off and you will see a sharder valve, kinda like what you have on the tire/wheels on the car.
push in on that little rod/pintle whith the ignition on. fuel should exit th rail at a high pressure. so be carefull and have a rag handy.
if you got fuel at a high pressure, like 60 psi or so, your fuel is fine.
second....
about the cam and crank dots.
you had the cam gear at the six oclock position right?
that means you should have the crank sprocket at the 12 oclock position.
hence the term dot to dot.
also, check that crank position sensor on top of the starter. is it still pluged in?
steve frank
on the fuel rail, drivers side there is a cap on the front end. take the cap off and you will see a sharder valve, kinda like what you have on the tire/wheels on the car.
push in on that little rod/pintle whith the ignition on. fuel should exit th rail at a high pressure. so be carefull and have a rag handy.
if you got fuel at a high pressure, like 60 psi or so, your fuel is fine.
second....
about the cam and crank dots.
you had the cam gear at the six oclock position right?
that means you should have the crank sprocket at the 12 oclock position.
hence the term dot to dot.
also, check that crank position sensor on top of the starter. is it still pluged in?
steve frank
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06-17-2002, 08:06 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by steve:
<strong>ok lest start here.
on the fuel rail, drivers side there is a cap on the front end. take the cap off and you will see a sharder valve, kinda like what you have on the tire/wheels on the car.
push in on that little rod/pintle whith the ignition on. fuel should exit th rail at a high pressure. so be carefull and have a rag handy.
if you got fuel at a high pressure, like 60 psi or so, your fuel is fine.
second....
about the cam and crank dots.
you had the cam gear at the six oclock position right?
that means you should have the crank sprocket at the 12 oclock position.
hence the term dot to dot.
also, check that crank position sensor on top of the starter. is it still pluged in?
steve frank</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pressure was good, the dots sound like what was done, and the crank sensor I'm going back out to check right now.
<strong>ok lest start here.
on the fuel rail, drivers side there is a cap on the front end. take the cap off and you will see a sharder valve, kinda like what you have on the tire/wheels on the car.
push in on that little rod/pintle whith the ignition on. fuel should exit th rail at a high pressure. so be carefull and have a rag handy.
if you got fuel at a high pressure, like 60 psi or so, your fuel is fine.
second....
about the cam and crank dots.
you had the cam gear at the six oclock position right?
that means you should have the crank sprocket at the 12 oclock position.
hence the term dot to dot.
also, check that crank position sensor on top of the starter. is it still pluged in?
steve frank</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pressure was good, the dots sound like what was done, and the crank sensor I'm going back out to check right now.
06-17-2002, 08:40 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC
06-17-2002, 08:46 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( Side question for Steve or anyone else.. I've always wondered, does anyone know which sensor is specifically used for what as far as crank and cam sensors go? Is it the cam sensor that's used for ignition timing?
06-17-2002, 08:48 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He already verfied he has spark.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He already verfied he has spark.
06-17-2002, 09:19 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I gave it a shot, and sure enough it still sparks. So that confirms we have fire right?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Crank sensor looks good and unmolested as did the cam sensor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wet cylinders tell me that no spark is there. Pull off number one, stick a screw driver in the wire and fire the motor while holding the screw driver shank to a ground source. My guess is it no longer has ignition.
SC</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I gave it a shot, and sure enough it still sparks. So that confirms we have fire right?
06-17-2002, 09:24 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by black00WS6:
<strong>that plug wet when u took it out?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup. After I took it out, dried it off, tested it to see if it sparked. I put it back in turned it over, pulled it back out and it had little gas on it again.
<strong>that plug wet when u took it out?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup. After I took it out, dried it off, tested it to see if it sparked. I put it back in turned it over, pulled it back out and it had little gas on it again.
06-17-2002, 09:52 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( Assuming you have air, spark, and fuel, it has to be a sensor problem.
Taking some shots in the dark here...
Make sure you didnt shear the teeth off the starter gear when the flywheel was jammed....
Make sure both coil pack harness are plugged in...
Check all engine grounds...
Check all relays...
Taking some shots in the dark here...
Make sure you didnt shear the teeth off the starter gear when the flywheel was jammed....
Make sure both coil pack harness are plugged in...
Check all engine grounds...
Check all relays...
06-17-2002, 09:58 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by xssive:
<strong>Assuming you have air, spark, and fuel, it has to be a sensor problem.
Taking some shots in the dark here...
Make sure you didnt shear the teeth off the starter gear when the flywheel was jammed....
Make sure both coil pack harness are plugged in...
Check all engine grounds...
Check all relays...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The teeth all looked fine, the hex wrench was actually inserted into one of the holes near the Torque Converter bolts and not the teeth.
The coil pack harnesses seem to be secure and good.
All the grounds I could see were in place, tight and clean.
All the fuses (two locations under hood and one inside cabin) look good and I did actually swap out some of the relays (the fan in place of the ign etc) to insure that they were fine as well.
<strong>Assuming you have air, spark, and fuel, it has to be a sensor problem.
Taking some shots in the dark here...
Make sure you didnt shear the teeth off the starter gear when the flywheel was jammed....
Make sure both coil pack harness are plugged in...
Check all engine grounds...
Check all relays...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The teeth all looked fine, the hex wrench was actually inserted into one of the holes near the Torque Converter bolts and not the teeth.
The coil pack harnesses seem to be secure and good.
All the grounds I could see were in place, tight and clean.
All the fuses (two locations under hood and one inside cabin) look good and I did actually swap out some of the relays (the fan in place of the ign etc) to insure that they were fine as well.
06-17-2002, 10:11 AM
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Re: That's it, I give up-I need some serious Professional Help :( </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>I gave it a shot, and sure enough it still sparks. So that confirms we have fire right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok. The next thing I would do is put the engine at TDC by putting your finger across the #1 cylinder spark plug hole (after taking out the plug, of course) then pull the valve cover and be SURE the intake and exhaust rockers are completely up and not moving (indicating the valves are closed). If the intake or exhaust rockers are moving AT ALL when the cylinder is coming to TDC, then you've got the cam phased wrong.
Just checking the possibility that you may not have had #1 TDC when you did the swap.
SC
PS-
To 98BlackSS: Sorry if I wasted your bandwidth. I did not notice in THIS thread that he checked spark. Thanks to Ryoga for indulging my stupidity. Hope this makes up for your having to correct me.
<small>[ June 17, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>
<strong>I gave it a shot, and sure enough it still sparks. So that confirms we have fire right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok. The next thing I would do is put the engine at TDC by putting your finger across the #1 cylinder spark plug hole (after taking out the plug, of course) then pull the valve cover and be SURE the intake and exhaust rockers are completely up and not moving (indicating the valves are closed). If the intake or exhaust rockers are moving AT ALL when the cylinder is coming to TDC, then you've got the cam phased wrong.
Just checking the possibility that you may not have had #1 TDC when you did the swap.
SC
PS-
To 98BlackSS: Sorry if I wasted your bandwidth. I did not notice in THIS thread that he checked spark. Thanks to Ryoga for indulging my stupidity. Hope this makes up for your having to correct me.
<small>[ June 17, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>