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2002 T/A daily driver - Actual cost for 6.2 vs LS7 swap?
I have an '02 Trans Am LS1 M6 with a problematic engine. Long story short, it was rebuilt before I bought it, but it only makes 300rwhp and I recently started having low oil pressure and finding metal on my magnetic oil drain plug-- pretty sure it now has a collapsed lifter. I'm sure I could drop the K-member and freshen up the engine, but it's 2020 and there are better options now.
This will be my daily, and I'm looking for advice on a reliable NA setup with 25+ MPG highway. I have seen a thread on Corvetteforum where the ZO6 guys are getting 30 mpg with the LS7, which seems amazing for a 505 HP engine.
Here are my options (feel free to add):
1. 7.0 LS7 - very pricey even rebuilt, but I'm not sure what additional parts are required to swap into an LS1 F-body.
2. 6.2 L92 / L94 / L9H / LS3 / L99 - appears very affordable until I read the list of parts I'd need to buy: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...02-f-body.html
For those who have done this, what does the actual cost and drivability end up being? I can do the work myself with the exception of PCM programming/tuning and machine work, but I'd prefer to buy a long block with a warranty since I have quite the "honey do" list at the moment, and I'd like to be able to drive the car this decade .
You almost need to build a 7.0 for a f car purpose built. I run a ls7 in my TA. Easiest thing is to get a ls7, swap in a LS1 stroker crank, get a ls2 1x timing set, swap over all your ls1 sensors.
You will need to extend the cam sensor harness to the front cover.
Alternatively you can swap in a ls3 stroker crank with the 58x reluctor and run the lingebfekter 24x box, which is what I did. Both a ls1 and ls3 four inch crank will get you into wet sump.
Either approach will allow you to use your f car Ecu and harness and most sensors and injectors and coils and oil pan. You will need to drill the block for a dipstick tube unless you try to keep dry sump.
Transmissions will bolt right up. As will headers. You will need to transfer over all accessories and brackets. If you try to stick with dry sump, it gets more complicated
I have a Gen IV block with the 24x crank. It's a 4" stroke and the 5.3 block was sleeved and bored to 4.185. not exactly what you're after but there are options. A custom built engine is NOT cheap but it's doable.
You can get 400 rwhp from a 383 LS1 stroker with relative ease and a decent top end kit would not break the bank either. That would be my route. No new computer and accessories would bolt on no issue at all. No harness issues or new adapters....etc
Scoggin dickey has map and cam sensor harnesses that will be needed for any gen4 .
The ls7 and ls3 dry sump motors will make things a bit more complicated. You will need a spacer under the crank bolt on those to push the balancer back all the way.
Of course the 58x reluctor screws up the pcm but lingenfelter has a box for that.
So for the ls3 you need the extension harnesses and the reluctor box and it should run.
If you have a stick car be careful with the pilot bearing. Something there was a little different to but i forget what.
If you can get a 6.2 out of a truck cheap enough it’s the cheapest way to go
I may be going down this road soon as well. What's the engine name you are referring to when you say a 6.2 out of a truck? Does gen3 or gen4 matter? Personally, I would prefer aluminum over iron
When you used the Lingenfelter 58x to 24x box did you have any issues or was it pretty cut dry. Just curious hearing from someone with some actual experience with that route. What times / power did your ls7 do in your setup.
I have an '02 Trans Am LS1 M6 with a problematic engine. Long story short, it was rebuilt before I bought it, but it only makes 300rwhp and I recently started having low oil pressure and finding metal on my magnetic oil drain plug-- pretty sure it now has a collapsed lifter. I'm sure I could drop the K-member and freshen up the engine, but it's 2020 and there are better options now.
This will be my daily, and I'm looking for advice on a reliable NA setup with 25+ MPG highway. I have seen a thread on Corvetteforum where the ZO6 guys are getting 30 mpg with the LS7, which seems amazing for a 505 HP engine.
Here are my options (feel free to add):
1. 7.0 LS7 - very pricey even rebuilt, but I'm not sure what additional parts are required to swap into an LS1 F-body.
2. 6.2 L92 / L94 / L9H / LS3 / L99 - appears very affordable until I read the list of parts I'd need to buy: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...02-f-body.html
For those who have done this, what does the actual cost and drivability end up being? I can do the work myself with the exception of PCM programming/tuning and machine work, but I'd prefer to buy a long block with a warranty since I have quite the "honey do" list at the moment, and I'd like to be able to drive the car this decade .
Pic if anyone cares to see the patient:
What budget do you have planned? LS7 would be pretty bad *** in anything
When you used the Lingenfelter 58x to 24x box did you have any issues or was it pretty cut dry. Just curious hearing from someone with some actual experience with that route. What times / power did your ls7 do in your setup.
No. The trick is do NOT have line of site from the box to the headers. I had to extend one of the pigtails to make sure. Some guys will extend the harness and put the box in the cabin.
I did all of this about 4 months ago, I wouldn't call it easy as there are a few things to tackle along the way but I can give you a rough rundown on prices and what to expect... I had an 01 Trans Am LS1 6speed and went to an L92 6speed, alot of this Darth and others have covered but I was looking for something in the 475-500rwhp range with good manners that I could beat on at the local road course (Barber) and not break the bank, I ended up with 485rwhp/461rwtq with a somewhat mismatched cam, I am VERY happy with the performance, here is what I did.
$3800 found a local L92 that already had new F-body pan, ARP head studs, untouched ports just light resurface on the deck, already had FULL VVT delete, trays/trunions, BTR .660 springs & "Non-High volume" oil pump (If you get a VVT motor make sure and do this if it hasn't already been done). bottom end was untouched with a claimed 75,000ish miles, I tore it down/inspected everything just to make sure it was as billed, everything checked out so I just reassembled. This motor cam with a new just installed 3 bolt BTR Turbo stage II cam 226/231 .605/.598 113+4, while not technically a NA cam it was pretty close to what I was looking for in a cam even though I have zero intentions to go turbo, it runs hard, made great numbers and has good manners, long sorry but trying to give you the full story....
$1200 FAST LSXR 102 LS3 style + Nick Williams Cable throttle body
$1000 Injectors + All the other stuff you don't think about when going this route Fuel rails, lines, I got a fuel guage for quick ref under hood, I got all FAST stuff which I am mostly happy about the only one I'm not is the quick coupler to hook up to the factory hard fuel line, mine would not go on no matter what (others have had this problem as well) I ended up getting another one that I will link to. - SIDENOTE, even though the FAST 102 ended up costing more than I had hoped to spend I'm still happy I went that route I am SD tuned and having a nice clean 4" funnel going straight to the throttle body is great and had to be worth some power.
$225 Lingenfelter 58-24 box, My L92 had a 58x relucter wheel and I didn't want to mess with changing it so I went this route not in small part because I saw Darth running it with no issues at 9,000 RPM or whatever he's shooting for these days Your my hero dude.... anyway I figured that would work great for my little 6500 rpm motor, no issues so far, it's a really well made product, I just wish a couple of the wires had been longer.
$500-infinity and beyond MISC, this can really go as far as you want but you will NEED injector adapters, cam signal adapter, I moved my MAP sensor to front location on the FAST so I needed an extension for that, I drilled out the sides of the block and did the LS1 style knock sensors + the conversion harness for that, none of it costs all that much but it adds up quick, I also did new LT1 radiator, clutch, pilot bearing, water pump/thermostat, starter + heater hose lines while I had everything out just because the car is 20 years old, I also did a UMI road race Kmember. the list goes on.
All in all I spent right around $7,000 but I did some extra stuff too and I'd do it all again in a heartbeat, you could do it a little cheaper but not much. It's a lot of work but it's probably not as bad as it sounds the little things add up though, I spent a whole day going around the motor while it was on the k member just tidying up wires, running them exactly where I wanted them to keep them off headers/away from sharp edges etc.
OP, lots of good stuff in here but what is your goal power wise? A 383 LS1 stroker with a decent top end would be so easy and no worry about how anything extra would be needed. I just hate to see you make it harder on yourself than it needs to be.
You need to start with a HP goal and a $$ goal. Pick two of the following. Fast, cheap, reliable. You can't have all three.
When you used the Lingenfelter 58x to 24x box did you have any issues or was it pretty cut dry. Just curious hearing from someone with some actual experience with that route. What times / power did your ls7 do in your setup.
My 99 TA has a 416 LSA/LS3 with the Lingenfelter 58x to 24x box and has had no issues over the last three years. The box may take 1 to 2 seconds to sync sometimes.One can continuous crank or just hit the key and if it doesn't immediately start, switch off and hit again. Mine normally starts instantly on the second hit. The double bump works great for my car. If you use a LPE 58x to 24x box locate it away from heat sources as the other member mentioned.
440 I like this idea what would you call a decent top end?
I have a friend with a 383 that runs worked over LS6 heads, Fast 92 and a good cam and it runs low 11s with n A4. Granted it has a good converter and rear set up with drag tires. Lots of guys have made good power with them over the years and they are easy to source and decently priced.
Since TSP does not appear to be a sponsor anymore, I'm not sure if I can link their products, but I Googled "LS7 24x" and the third result is an LS7 short block for less than $7200 with the option to add the LS2 conversion package for $380.
They also seem to have a nice range of resleeved engines like the Cleetus McFarland 427. Anyone have experience with their products, or similar options from the LS1Tech vendors?
Originally Posted by speedfreak440
I did all of this about 4 months ago, I wouldn't call it easy as there are a few things to tackle along the way but I can give you a rough rundown on prices and what to expect... I had an 01 Trans Am LS1 6speed and went to an L92 6speed, alot of this Darth and others have covered but I was looking for something in the 475-500rwhp range with good manners that I could beat on at the local road course (Barber) and not break the bank, I ended up with 485rwhp/461rwtq with a somewhat mismatched cam, I am VERY happy with the performance, here is what I did.
$3800 found a local L92 that already had new F-body pan, ARP head studs, untouched ports just light resurface on the deck, already had FULL VVT delete, trays/trunions, BTR .660 springs & "Non-High volume" oil pump (If you get a VVT motor make sure and do this if it hasn't already been done). bottom end was untouched with a claimed 75,000ish miles, I tore it down/inspected everything just to make sure it was as billed, everything checked out so I just reassembled. This motor cam with a new just installed 3 bolt BTR Turbo stage II cam 226/231 .605/.598 113+4, while not technically a NA cam it was pretty close to what I was looking for in a cam even though I have zero intentions to go turbo, it runs hard, made great numbers and has good manners, long sorry but trying to give you the full story....
$1200 FAST LSXR 102 LS3 style + Nick Williams Cable throttle body
$1000 Injectors + All the other stuff you don't think about when going this route Fuel rails, lines, I got a fuel guage for quick ref under hood, I got all FAST stuff which I am mostly happy about the only one I'm not is the quick coupler to hook up to the factory hard fuel line, mine would not go on no matter what (others have had this problem as well) I ended up getting another one that I will link to. - SIDENOTE, even though the FAST 102 ended up costing more than I had hoped to spend I'm still happy I went that route I am SD tuned and having a nice clean 4" funnel going straight to the throttle body is great and had to be worth some power.
$225 Lingenfelter 58-24 box, My L92 had a 58x relucter wheel and I didn't want to mess with changing it so I went this route not in small part because I saw Darth running it with no issues at 9,000 RPM or whatever he's shooting for these days Your my hero dude.... anyway I figured that would work great for my little 6500 rpm motor, no issues so far, it's a really well made product, I just wish a couple of the wires had been longer.
$500-infinity and beyond MISC, this can really go as far as you want but you will NEED injector adapters, cam signal adapter, I moved my MAP sensor to front location on the FAST so I needed an extension for that, I drilled out the sides of the block and did the LS1 style knock sensors + the conversion harness for that, none of it costs all that much but it adds up quick, I also did new LT1 radiator, clutch, pilot bearing, water pump/thermostat, starter + heater hose lines while I had everything out just because the car is 20 years old, I also did a UMI road race Kmember. the list goes on.
All in all I spent right around $7,000 but I did some extra stuff too and I'd do it all again in a heartbeat, you could do it a little cheaper but not much. It's a lot of work but it's probably not as bad as it sounds the little things add up though, I spent a whole day going around the motor while it was on the k member just tidying up wires, running them exactly where I wanted them to keep them off headers/away from sharp edges etc.
This seems like a very realistic goal HP and price range for me.
I don't want to get too hung up on HP numbers, because I've seen high HP cars on here running 11's and relatively conservative builds running 10's... So I just want a fast car with good street manners. I'm not trying to win a dyno contest.
You almost need to build a 7.0 for a f car purpose built. I run a ls7 in my TA. Easiest thing is to get a ls7, swap in a LS1 stroker crank, get a ls2 1x timing set, swap over all your ls1 sensors.
Alternatively you can swap in a ls3 stroker crank with the 58x reluctor and run the lingebfekter 24x box, which is what I did. Both a ls1 and ls3 four inch crank will get you into wet sump.
Would swapping a 24x reluctor onto the LS7 crank not be easier/cheaper? Or is there a problem with compatability?
08-02-2020, 04:03 PM
2002 T/A daily driver - Actual cost for 6.2 vs LS7 swap? 
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Your my hero dude.... anyway I figured that would work great for my little 6500 rpm motor, no issues so far, it's a really well made product, I just wish a couple of the wires had been longer.
