BIG PROBLEM!!!! Need some thoughts.
In order to accurately measure +/- .0001" or smaller, on master tooling fixtures that are used to calibrate and align US Naval Aviation support equipment we had to maintain a temperature & humidity controlled laboratory enviroment of 68 deg F with no more than +/-1 deg temp shift over an hour in a 24hr period (with no more than 45% rel humidity). Gloves, smocks, booties.
Add in a big brother computer monitored thermo-humidraph to data log all of your work. You could loose your *** if an IS9001 / ANSI Z-540 inspection of the records of your work, wich are audited once every couple of years for recertification of the lab revealed you worked outside of the specifications.
Reason being- uncertainty. Metal expands and contracts in non controlled enviroments.
Most of the time, most applications in general machine work do not require this level of accuracy that has been casually thrown around in this thread.
Space shuttle..., Nobody ever shoots at them! Or wants to stay off CNN for hitting the hospital 10 feet away from the terrorist ********.
All I am saying is the precision measurements you are speaking about can only be made in an controlled enviroment by qualified artisans.
Add in a big brother computer monitored thermo-humidraph to data log all of your work. You could loose your *** if an IS9001 / ANSI Z-540 inspection of the records of your work, wich are audited once every couple of years for recertification of the lab revealed you worked outside of the specifications.
Reason being- uncertainty. Metal expands and contracts in non controlled enviroments.
Most of the time, most applications in general machine work do not require this level of accuracy that has been casually thrown around in this thread.
Space shuttle..., Nobody ever shoots at them! Or wants to stay off CNN for hitting the hospital 10 feet away from the terrorist ********.
All I am saying is the precision measurements you are speaking about can only be made in an controlled enviroment by qualified artisans.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
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From: Texas and Qatar
I am not a machinist but if this were a roller camshaft; I would increase the roller diameter of the lifter. Although I have no idea to it's measurable effect on duration. I believe LS1's are .700" roller diameter and Comps are .750". (+/- .000001")
well we have a crank grinder by Storm Vulcan (modle 15a) and a Van Norman (m111 for big cranks like in diesles). Barco and sunnen surface grinder and miller. rottler hone and boring tool, and also a ck-10 sunnen hone. Sunnen pin setter and rod condictioner. Many other machines. some prices a bore and torqueplate hone is 25 a hole, 125 to grinde a crank, 200 on up for balancing,25 to polish a crank,250 to line bore a block. im not gonna get in a pissing match with you. to end this ill say your right and im worng.
Your prices are in line with normal machine work. Def not something I would think would go with extremely close tolerance work.
How come it is, every professional in this thread, are telling you this cannot be done, and you are the only one saying you are capable of this, and you are capable of this using inferior tools and equipment? Am I to believe, you have abilities no one else does? Including NASCAR builders? And F1?
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Damn its funny how you all claim to be these great engine builders and what not but act like kids i would just like to know more info on what this thread was originally about did TSP stand behind this motor i know 5g's isnt easy to come by......BTW im sure MOST of you know what your talking about but damn act more grown up than arguing with a kid that has rediculous acusations. Just my 2 cents
Not a single machine in this list has the capability of consistently holding tolerances to one tenth of one thousandth of an inch. Not one. I don't care the level of expertise of the machinist operating the machine. Those are all normal run of the mill automotive engine machines. NONE of them are high precision machines. They may be high precision for the job they are made for, but they are NOT high precision machines, made for holding extremely close tolerances.
Your prices are in line with normal machine work. Def not something I would think would go with extremely close tolerance work.
How come it is, every professional in this thread, are telling you this cannot be done, and you are the only one saying you are capable of this, and you are capable of this using inferior tools and equipment? Am I to believe, you have abilities no one else does? Including NASCAR builders? And F1?
Your prices are in line with normal machine work. Def not something I would think would go with extremely close tolerance work.
How come it is, every professional in this thread, are telling you this cannot be done, and you are the only one saying you are capable of this, and you are capable of this using inferior tools and equipment? Am I to believe, you have abilities no one else does? Including NASCAR builders? And F1?
well im sorry that you are ignorant and i belive in volume over over pricing. i dont just do race engines, i do all makes. i live in montana and it would be impossible to only do preformance engines. as for the machinery, i would put it agains any of your machines. i know they have been well maintained and they work great. plus mine are paid for. let me know what machines to buy if those are harbor fright material. i think all of you sponsers are mad at me because i give more effort for less price. ill put my name and hard work against anyone because i am that good. i may be young but all of the greats start at a young age. this thread went totaly out of controll.
There's nothing wrong with your machines. They are good machines for what they are made for. That is, machining automotive type engines to a certain tolerance. That tolerance is not .0001. You even claim to "believe in volume over pricing" which again, doesn't lend well to high precision.
Maybe you should just go back to tearing down motors and running the hot tank, before the real machinists find out you're posting about this stuff.
Damn its funny how you all claim to be these great engine builders and what not but act like kids i would just like to know more info on what this thread was originally about did TSP stand behind this motor i know 5g's isnt easy to come by......BTW im sure MOST of you know what your talking about but damn act more grown up than arguing with a kid that has rediculous acusations. Just my 2 cents
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I agree I just wanted to know what happened in the end and what engine the guy ended getting. Im sure TSP will give him some support. That one guy is completely full of s&*t about his "high tolerances, I really hope he was high when he posted all that.....for his sake.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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close.....the nascar guys used to do it untill they caught on. they overbore the lifter bore and use larger lifter on flat tappet cam which gives more surface area therefore increasing duration.
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I am putting an Iron 6.0 back in the car. I can't afford to fix the other motor so I basically have a pile of junk with that. It needs a crank, probably all the rods to be safe, and all the rod and main bearings. It's much cheaper to just get the iron and go. I am selling all my performance stuff so I can pay down the car and get rid of it. I guess I did 9 months of saving to get 7 months of driving. Ended up being right at $1k per 1000 miles. Pretty shitty if you ask me.
They offered to help me out on parts so I wouldn't be out too much money. But as a consumer who's already spent over $6k with them between my heads and short block. I already am out too much money. It took me 9 months to get enough to buy everything, I'm not about to just throw money into it again. Especially when it should not be having issues when it's barely broke in. It's not just money that bothers me though. I have had to make arrangements for a vehicle until this is fixed, which could take several weeks. So now not only am I out a vehicle. I put someone else out of a vehicle, which they didn't have to do. But thankfully there are people out there willing to do that sort of thing.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,979
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From: Upstate NY
LOL! I assume you were being facetious unless you suffer from the dreaded disease decilexiphobia. If you do, you have my sympathy.
We have offered to help with pricing if he chooses to rebuild the motor. We can only do so much without the motor here. We don't know exactly what happened and without going through the motor we will never know. If it were a build quality issue, I'm confident it would have shown up prior to 7 months down the road.
Everyone here knows what it costs to build something like this and we certainly aren't pleased to see a customer have issues. However, sometimes this is the nature of this industry. It isn't cheap game by any means. But again, we will help with pricing, etc. should he choose to rebuild the engine.
Jon
Everyone here knows what it costs to build something like this and we certainly aren't pleased to see a customer have issues. However, sometimes this is the nature of this industry. It isn't cheap game by any means. But again, we will help with pricing, etc. should he choose to rebuild the engine.
Jon
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
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From: Texas and Qatar
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
So your saying with all the measurements across the board all over the place a supposedly renownd company like Tsp cant keep the clearances within a .0001. Is this hard to ask for. For a STREET engine this is too loose for a race engine its medioker. If i built an engine like this i would be laughed out of town. I was taught to keep it within .0001 of each other. That guide is according to clevite not gm, i have a build book and ill post the correct clearances in here.
Well the first reason I didn't take that action is because I emailed TSP the day this happened and told them what happened. I was told that it would be very hard to prove that after 8 months there was a build issue. Since I wasn't offered the option to ship it back, which if they had any intention of taking care of this that way I would think they would have offered that to me, I took the motor to a place localy.
This looks like oil starvation, plain and simple. If you had good oil pressure before all this happened I'd check my gauge, especially if it's an electric unit because something just does not sound right here. When I see the #6 rod eaten up like that it's usually a oil starvation issue... and the #6 rod bearing usually goes first. And those clearances are fine, IMHO... I do use thinker oil, but that's due the condition in which I run my engines. (Brutal heat with extended high RPM running)
Also make sure that the rear block plug didn't spit out the O-ring somehow, and the front block plug is still in there and tight. Also check the cam retaining plate when get it torn down. Make sure that the bolts holding it on are tight, and that the O-ring is intact with no burs holding the plate away from the block. And the oil pump... Look that thing over VERY carefully. I've had new pumps fail. (Too little oil pressure and too much oil pressure)... And look at the oil filter too... Make sure there's not something blocking the "return" side. Also check the oil filter for trash, packing material, whatever... Also make sure it's the correct oil filter... I think I understand that you just changed your oil so it's something to consider. Again, these are just some things to look for and consider... Good luck.
Also make sure that the rear block plug didn't spit out the O-ring somehow, and the front block plug is still in there and tight. Also check the cam retaining plate when get it torn down. Make sure that the bolts holding it on are tight, and that the O-ring is intact with no burs holding the plate away from the block. And the oil pump... Look that thing over VERY carefully. I've had new pumps fail. (Too little oil pressure and too much oil pressure)... And look at the oil filter too... Make sure there's not something blocking the "return" side. Also check the oil filter for trash, packing material, whatever... Also make sure it's the correct oil filter... I think I understand that you just changed your oil so it's something to consider. Again, these are just some things to look for and consider... Good luck.