Ls3 NA Build For My Focus - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Notices
Generation IV Internal Engine 2005-2014 LS2 | LS3 | LS7 | L92 | LS9

Ls3 NA Build For My Focus

Old 03-11-2018, 12:07 AM
  #1  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default Ls3 NA Build For My Focus

So I put my new LS3 focus on the dyno today and i am a little disappointed in my numbers.

I believe the lack of power might be from the cam shaft. I am thinking of ordering another cam on monday

this is my current set up.

ls3 block
JE +10 dome pistons
Eagle H Beams
Trick Flow 255 heads
Comp 297LRR Cam
Sheet Metal Intake
2 inch Headers



The low down low torque numbers are from the high stall

Also this dyno run i rolled into the throttle slowly bc of tire spin on the dyno but i started the sample too soon.

Any insight on the camshaft would be helpfull

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ord-focus.html

Last edited by topspeed1; 03-11-2018 at 11:32 AM.
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:55 AM
  #2  
TECH Junkie
 
Tuskyz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,271
Default

That cam is way too big for a stock cube motor. A cam with over 240 duration does best in stroker applications that' over 400 cubic inches.
Tuskyz28 is offline  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:30 AM
  #3  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by Tuskyz28 View Post
That cam is way too big for a stock cube motor. A cam with over 240 duration does best in stroker applications that' over 400 cubic inches.
I understand that it is a big cam but i am looking for all out high rpm power. I am shooting for 600whp. The lack of power down low on the dyno chart is the torque convertor.

As you can see in the dyno chart my power is already falling off at 7500 rpms
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:39 AM
  #4  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
bowtienut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bright, IN
Posts: 1,686
Default

If it were mine, revving over 7500 rpm, I wouldn't be messing around with a HR valvetrain, short travel or not. That dyno curve says to me your valvetrain is out of control.
What TC are you running? I've run a 4400 8" and still had very strong torque numbers down around 4000 rpm. Just my opinion, but your low torque numbers are probably due equally to both the cam size and high stall effect.
bowtienut is offline  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:31 AM
  #5  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by bowtienut View Post
If it were mine, revving over 7500 rpm, I wouldn't be messing around with a HR valvetrain, short travel or not. That dyno curve says to me your valvetrain is out of control.
What TC are you running? I've run a 4400 8" and still had very strong torque numbers down around 4000 rpm. Just my opinion, but your low torque numbers are probably due equally to both the cam size and high stall effect.
Its really a bad dyno chart so i will try and find a better one. I was having to slowly get on the throttle and roll into full throttle because of tire spin and i started the sampling way to soon on this one.

was specifically makes you say my valve train is out of control? just curious

thanks for the help
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:33 PM
  #6  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
bowtienut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bright, IN
Posts: 1,686
Default

Originally Posted by topspeed1 View Post
...
was specifically makes you say my valve train is out of control?
the jaggedness and sudden dips in the curve at the upper revs.
bowtienut is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 01:10 AM
  #7  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: S.A., TX
Posts: 1,726
Default

Originally Posted by topspeed1 View Post
.....The lack of power down low on the dyno chart is the torque convertor.......
The low RPM torque numbers is because you have too much cam for the displacement and the sheet-metal that you're running. And if your static compression ratio is below 12:1.....then you can add that as an issue, as well.

The high stall converter is an aggravating factor, but it's not the primary cause. You'd have the same pathetic torque numbers even if you had a stock converter.

Otherwise.....550 HP to the wheels ain't nothing to sneeze at for a stock displacement LS3.....but you pay for it with the lack of torque.

KW
KW Baraka is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:44 AM
  #8  
Teching In
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 13
Default

Man, people don't read.

Did you do any runs out to 8k to see how hard it drops off? Are the heads box stock? Heavy valves? Also, use sae correction factor and set the smoothing to 5. The numbers might be lower but they'll be legit and the run will look better. 600 to the tire with a stock cube deal through an auto seems like an awful tall order. Seems to run pretty hard to me.
Vdop is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 04:29 AM
  #9  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (18)
 
DietCoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, GA
Posts: 3,690
Default

#s look fine to me.
DietCoke is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:32 AM
  #10  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by bowtienut View Post
the jaggedness and sudden dips in the curve at the upper revs.
The jaggedness is just the smoothing factor on the dyno. We were fighting tire spin and didnt get many clean runs. Hopefully I will get some better ones when i put it back on the dyno
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:34 AM
  #11  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by KW Baraka View Post
The low RPM torque numbers is because you have too much cam for the displacement and the sheet-metal that you're running. And if your static compression ratio is below 12:1.....then you can add that as an issue, as well.

The high stall converter is an aggravating factor, but it's not the primary cause. You'd have the same pathetic torque numbers even if you had a stock converter.

Otherwise.....550 HP to the wheels ain't nothing to sneeze at for a stock displacement LS3.....but you pay for it with the lack of torque.

KW
Im not really looking for any low end power. The build was based on all out top end. The car weighs 2300 as is sits.

Compression Ratio is 12.7:1
Running on e85
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:38 AM
  #12  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by Vdop View Post
Man, people don't read.

Did you do any runs out to 8k to see how hard it drops off? Are the heads box stock? Heavy valves? Also, use sae correction factor and set the smoothing to 5. The numbers might be lower but they'll be legit and the run will look better. 600 to the tire with a stock cube deal through an auto seems like an awful tall order. Seems to run pretty hard to me.
I havnt run it to 8000 yet.
The heads are trick flow 255 with TEA hollow intake valves.

I had hoped with so much duration and a sheet metal intake power would pull strong until 8000+
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:42 AM
  #13  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
bowtienut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bright, IN
Posts: 1,686
Default

Well, it sounds like you have everything under control then.
Just bolt on some slicks for your next dyno pull.

.."I had hoped with so much duration and a sheet metal intake power would pull strong until 8000+"
It will, IF your valvetrain can take it
bowtienut is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:59 AM
  #14  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by bowtienut View Post
Well, it sounds like you have everything under control then.
Just bolt on some slicks for your next dyno pull.

.."I had hoped with so much duration and a sheet metal intake power would pull strong until 8000+"
It will, IF your valvetrain can take it
Yeah I have a set of drag radials im gonna use next time.
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:01 AM
  #15  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

If anyone has any good knowledge of cams please chime in and let me know what you think.
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:11 AM
  #16  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (17)
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,153
Default

Cam isn't "too big" if you are looking for power north of 7500RPM. Looks like valvetrain issues. Has a hard time getting past 6500rpm, hangs up there for a bit, then barely climbs from there to 7500. It takes a lot more than a big cam and a nice intake to get to 8k RPMs.

What are your complete valvetrain specs? 7500+ is a lot of RPM for any HR cam. That combo wants a solid roller with proper valvetrain to be honest, but if you can stabilize the valvetrain you will make more power up to 7500. I would guess you have at least 25rwhp left in that valvetrain...which still won't be your 600rwhp through a stalled auto...that seems like a very lofty goal for a hydraulic roller stock cube LS3, even with killer parts. 575rwhp NA through a big stall is very impressive though...

FWIW, my 383 is roughly the same cubes as an LS3 and was spec'd a larger cam than that - but it is a solid roller cam along with beasts of a valvespring, quality shaftmounts, and massive pushrods. Not the stuff you usually see on street cars, since the spring pressures you need to keep an SR cam that aggressive happy make routine checkups important. It seems you are trying to get away from that with an HR, but you can't have your cake and eat it too...sacrifices will have to be made if you want an NA 7500-8000 rpm 600rwhp stalled auto.

Last edited by Puck; 03-12-2018 at 10:27 AM.
Puck is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:17 AM
  #17  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (17)
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,153
Default

Originally Posted by topspeed1 View Post
If anyone has any good knowledge of cams please chime in and let me know what you think.
Everything about your combo screams solid roller. An HR can work with the right valvetrain specs, which we still haven't gotten from you, but no matter what an HR will leave power on the table at the RPM range your motor wants to be in.

That dyno clearly points to valvetrain issues IMO. You have PLENTY of motor for that cam.
Puck is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:25 AM
  #18  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (17)
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,153
Default

Was this just for mockup, or is that what is in the car now? Looks like OEM rockers and small valve springs for a big cammed 13:1 7500+rpm build?

Puck is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:25 AM
  #19  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by Puck View Post
Everything about your combo screams solid roller. An HR can work with the right valvetrain specs, which we still haven't gotten from you, but no matter what an HR will leave power on the table at the RPM range your motor wants to be in.

That dyno clearly points to valvetrain issues IMO. You have PLENTY of motor for that cam.
It has johnson short travel link bar lifters part number ST2116LSR

3/8 pushrods

The dual valve springs that came with the trickflow heads

TEA hollow intake valves

Stock rockers with trunion upgrades
topspeed1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:33 AM
  #20  
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
topspeed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Washington NC
Posts: 150
Default

Originally Posted by Puck View Post
Was this just for mockup, or is that what is in the car now? Looks like OEM rockers and small valve springs for a big cammed 13:1 7500+rpm build?

That is the engine.

How much spring pressure do you think i need?
topspeed1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: