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Low lash solids pull forever but seems your car is doing better than a dyno number shows. I originally hoped my 427 would do 600rwhp through an automatic. Reality is 553 but will fry the drag radials from 70mph roll in 2nd.
Dyno is a tool,dont be to caught up on the final number.
This dyno is to show low lash stability with same rockers and springs you currently have.
Your cam choices both bigger than mine too.
Mine is 246/262@.050. .689/.672 112+4. Pull ended at 7600 still going up.
I would like some facts in regards how solid cam specs work.
I don't quite understand how to work out the valve events.
For example.
My cam card is a 250/258 114 LSA +4 camshaft,does this end up becoming a 244/252 once converter to hydraulic?
IVC 55
IVO 15
EVO 64
EVC 11
Overlap 26 degrees
ICL 110
ECL 118
Those are the solid specifications.
Once engine heats up do these valve events change?
Last edited by bortous; Oct 4, 2019 at 08:32 AM.
Reason: Forgot info
As it heats up, the lash is taken out. Remember, there is no hydraulic plunger sitting in the lifter to take up any slack. The slack comes from cold parts needing room to expand as they warm.
LLRs are typically 5 degrees larger when cold because of this. So they are in fact bigger cams until they warm up.
They are also much more aggressive than even the craziest hydraulic lobes. The lobe intensity of a solid is much higher... even the mild ones on the LLR.
So, for a given hydraulic @ 050, once warm, they have a lot more idle vacuum and make more power. The .006 number is much smaller and the .200 number is much larger than the hydraulic lobe.
I think a good rule of thumb is given everything the same, an LLR is worth 30HP over the same hydraulic lobe on a 550rwhp engine. Stability, lobe intensity, no plunger loses. It's why the short travel Johnsons pick up a good amount of power over regular lifters after 6000. They have less travel/slop in the valvetrain as it spins harder. LLR takes it all out.
As it heats up, the lash is taken out. Remember, there is no hydraulic plunger sitting in the lifter to take up any slack. The slack comes from cold parts needing room to expand as they warm.
LLRs are typically 5 degrees larger when cold because of this. So they are in fact bigger cams until they warm up.
They are also much more aggressive than even the craziest hydraulic lobes. The lobe intensity of a solid is much higher... even the mild ones on the LLR.
So, for a given hydraulic @ 050, once warm, they have a lot more idle vacuum and make more power. The .006 number is much smaller and the .200 number is much larger than the hydraulic lobe.
I think a good rule of thumb is given everything the same, an LLR is worth 30HP over the same hydraulic lobe on a 550rwhp engine. Stability, lobe intensity, no plunger loses. It's why the short travel Johnsons pick up a good amount of power over regular lifters after 6000. They have less travel/slop in the valvetrain as it spins harder. LLR takes it all out.
Ok so this means this camshaft will behave like a 244/252 114LSA +4 camshaft when the engine warms up.
And this also means the valve events change along with it.
So if the solid specs have an IVC of 55 when cold this will change to an IVC of 52 when warm correct?
Ok so this means this camshaft will behave like a 244/252 114LSA +4 camshaft when the engine warms up.
And this also means the valve events change along with it.
So if the solid specs have an IVC of 55 when cold this will change to an IVC of 52 when warm correct?
As an estimate yes, but that’s estimated .050 duration. You can assume you’ll lose 5-6* duration once it reaches temp.
A smaller solid roller will typically out perform a hydraulic equivalent for all the reasons Jake mentioned like higher lift, less losses, better control, and more aggressive lobes.
The duration comparison is more to get an idea of how it will drive (overlap, etc), and allow you to estimate valve events net lash.
As an estimate yes, but that’s estimated .050 duration. You can assume you’ll lose 5-6* duration once it reaches temp.
A smaller solid roller will typically out perform a hydraulic equivalent for all the reasons Jake mentioned like higher lift, less losses, better control, and more aggressive lobes.
The duration comparison is more to get an idea of how it will drive (overlap, etc), and allow you to estimate valve events net lash.
That's good.
I understand now.
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Another update.
I ended up ordering the 250/258 .657 .657 114 LSA +4 LLSR camshaft.
This recommendation was from Patrick G and should perform very well.
Not sure on the lifters.
I have been looking at crow cams solid lifters which are made by a company called GS. (Made in the USA)
Also looking at Morel 5452
And the isky endurance plus 1251LSH
Any recommendations are welcome.
As long as they can safely rev to 7500rpm all good.
Bortous, solids with axle-oiling features will help longevity, especially with a solid roller and 1209 springs. They aren’t cheap, but nothing about chasing horsepower is. Don’t cheap out in this area.
You can have your cake and eat it too for the low low price of periodic valve adjustment and a few extra grand I like your analogy.
I went with Isky Redzone bushed lifters for way too much money but I bought them long enough ago I forgot the pain of the money leaving my wallet. Now I just have cool parts on the shelf.
You can have your cake and eat it too for the low low price of periodic valve adjustment and a few extra grand I like your analogy.
I went with Isky Redzone bushed lifters for way too much money but I bought them long enough ago I forgot the pain of the money leaving my wallet. Now I just have cool parts on the shelf.
Isky RedZone here as well. 375RHM with axle oiling and captive tie bar options. Mine aren’t bushed, but the forced axle oiling should help the needles live a nice long life...if there is such a thing for a solid roller setup.
Bortous, solids with axle-oiling features will help longevity, especially with a solid roller and 1209 springs. They aren’t cheap, but nothing about chasing horsepower is. Don’t cheap out in this area.
Yes I know.
I was speaking with Bob at Cam motion about this and he recommended these too for street driving.
However, when I told him my idle speed of 1000rpm he said the cheaper set without axle oiling will be more than fine.
He was adamant about engines idling over 800rpm for better lubrication.
Those Isky lifters I have been looking at, I am not sure if they have axle oiling or not.
It annoys me I can't post a link here without it being deleted.
So I will copy and paste the description:
ISKY Endurance Plus Tie-Bar Style Solid Roller Lifters .842" Dia Suit GM/Chevy LS series ISK1251-LSHISKY Endurance Plus Roller Lifters feature Isky's revolutionary new TruTrac long life precision roller bearings. Sprintron test proven over 1,000 racing miles, TruTrac bearings are distinguished by the following Isky exclusives: New 30% stronger Super Clean Timken Steel specifically designed for needle roller bearings. New .755" dia. "Parabolic" Profile Crowned outer bearing race corrects for block misalignment by optimising cam lobe contact. New Non-Skid Textured finish is test proven to improve bearing life by reducing slippage and lowering oil temperatures! New Stronger 4340 heavy duty pin.Specs:Lifter StyleMechanical roller
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I like your analogy.
