Comp crane fast and a few more are the same Co. S&S bought Crane at first and I don't if S&S sold crane of if there All under one roof now? Crane was making the cams S&S before they went bust

 

Biker S&S?

 

Your cam is very close to my LLSR. Very slight differences. Who picked your springs? Im running Pac 1238x. They are 250 on the seat and yours are only 160lbs. I wouldnt think 160 would be sufficient for an 8000 rpm roller.

 

I actually jumped off the PAC1209 and moved to the Manley Nextek 221421 springs. seat is 165, open is 515. My intake valves are Titanium and lighter than stock LS1, so I think I'll be OK. Plus the retainer hardware is also Titanium. Tony and I picked them out together.

I dynoed to get a baseline. I haven't posted it yet, because I'm honestly disappointed in it, but I will. I kind of wanted to get Tony's take on it first. You'll see it is very stable. Kind of anemic for what it is though. I'll post up something more detailed later. As it sits currently, It's running BTR Dual Plats on heavier valves and not floating at all. That's stock rockers and lower lift, though, so i see your point...

 

I missed that you have Titanium valves. Maybe the lower spring rate is ok then. If Tony says its good, then its good. Hes know this stuff for sure.

 

I'm running pac1209x springs with Ferrara 2.165 stainless valves. Springs are shimmed to within .050 of coil bind and yella terra adjustable rocker arms for ls3 heads. At 7900, i'm yet to see signs for valve float.

 

mamo ls7 heads, his lighter valves Pac 1209 259/265 .706 .703 solid roller

 

Oh what's it doing and the baseline is low?
Could it be that the tune is out of whack?

 

Not likely a tuning issue. Just based on trap and weight I expected a higher number is all. 134 mph and 3460 race wt. AFR steady at 12.7-13.1. 13.3 at the very top

 

I was disappointed in my numbers as well...still am, but I know that tuning will net me better numbers, (that’s where you’ll come in Jacob, if I ever find the time) being as my initial 5 pull measly dyno session was done without a real wideband. But then I came to the realization that my car will spin 4th gear, so I don’t really care what the dyno said. It drives great and is WAY more power than I can ever use except to maybe get a set of handcuffs put on me. Last time I drove the car I was doing 118 in 4th gear and didn’t realize it...just stupid.
I contacted Tony to share my numbers with him after my hour long dyno session last year...wow it’s been over a year...and he couldn’t believe we were done so fast. Explained the wideband issue, which explained the “only” 616 hp. Told him I’d get my wideband going and get back but it’s been 15 months now and I still haven’t been back. Busy busy.

 

imo 2" headers will gain at the track for sure. 1 7/8 are much too small for this build. I had some chinese stainless 4-1 headers that they called 1 7/8, but actually measured 1.9" primaries o.d, and they were thin wall tube. They were definitely larger than the proper 1 7/8 steel header tubing because i compared them. And they had 3.5 collectors tapering down to dual 3" exhaust. I had them on a "unopened" 5.7 ls1 !! .. but it was tuned to the max on high octane pump unleaded, nothing in the tune to kill power, no kr activated or torque managment, and it had external bolt ons, ati 25% balancer, etc. With a 4k stall/th400 it was no sh*t unreal for what i called an unopened turd, the mid range it would overtake semi trucks doing highway speeds literally like they were parked still. I had it in a aussie solid rear axle Ford (not a fox body) but fairly light, around 3100lbs. I later swapped over all the driveline from it into my lt1 camaro when i bought the camaro and did the LS conversion. But not the headers they didn't fit obviously, i sold those to someone with the engine/trans mounts as a conversion kit for that Ford model.

After that experience i will never say a header is too big for an LS engine. Especially in a 3100-3200lb car or lighter. IMO yours needs 2" into 3.5 collectors minimum but really IMO it needs 2 1/8" primary into to a dual 3.5" zorst. Any less i think you are leaving ET on the table. I think the dyno wont show up as much as what the track does when it comes to headers. Years ago i messed with some 440ci mopar big blocks and i put the same engine from one car with custom 2 1/8 - 4" collector headers, into another very similar weight car with 1 7/8 headers 3" collectors, and you would not believe how much the small headers choked that motor. Like it was down 100hp and torque! I never dynoed it but it was very noticeably a turd to it's former self, extremely noticeable. It went from a wild lion, to a domestic cat. It was a 12:1 compression 446ci that was strong, ran on avgas, but nothing crazy it was still a flat tappet hydraulic cam! and ported oem cast heads, and even with that it loved the 2 1/8 headers believe it or not. I believe it because i did it.

I think these efficient cylinder heads inline valve wedge head motors with high CR they like big headers and some of the other engines when they are milder builds, not as much. And that's why some people think too small headers are great. In my experience it has been totally the opposite. I will put 2 1/8 primary 4-1's on anything over 600 flywheel hp if they are available.

Also i think that MSD no matter how ported it just can't breathe enough for what you have to make exceptional power/track et's. I think a holley hi ram and 2" headers will wake it up considerably. Texas Speed ran high 8's n/a in the 1/4 with their sbe ls3 before they soon later grenaded the short motor, with small bore ls7 heads, holley hi ram, and 8300 rpm shifts i think he said on instagram at the time. In a 5th gen which had to be heavy, didn't look like much weight reduction. Would it have done that with a msd intake, i think not. I know the MSD has it's place for people who don't want a pro stock hood etc on the street. I get it I don't really want my camaro looking like that either.

 

I hear you. And I know it's just a tool. But also, I was expecting a 6 to the be first digit. I'm pretty sure the sniper is the problem. Small plenum and short runners, but it doesn't act like a single plane at all. You'll see what I mean on the torque curve. I think it just needs longer runners and a bigger plenum.

You said a lot, and I agree very much with your assessment. I cut the quote back to save space. Pipemax says I need 2.625" primaries! But in a F car, that'll never happen. I'm going to throw on some 2" primaries. TSP has them. Best i can do for an F car. I saw a guy gain with 2" primaries on a bolt on LS7. Every time I have been associate with an LS build, the larger primaries have helped it. Especially in the midrange.

I don't see a whole lot of MSD track results out there. the 468 thread had some testing and it looked like out of the box the MSD was underwhelming, but it also looked like Tony's hung with the big boys. But that was all engine dyno stuff. I do expecct the peak RPM will come down a bit with the MSD over the sniper, but I'm also guessing at the whole torque curve going up 30 lbs or so. One thing I've been thinking about is how hard it might be to re-do the snout to accept a 125mm tb. then at least it can get the airflow. IT's a thought...

 

Here is the dyno I've been unimpressed with, but I'm kind of over it now. it's a baseline and the heads are coming off, so it is what it is. These LPE660 heads are suppose to be good for 660 FWHP, and they did that easily enough. I just expected it was higher based on how it ran is all. For a solid roller, it's a pretty good torque curve. Power is smooth, valvetrain is nice and stable. Really nothing to be too upset about. But only 40 more HP than my 346, so I think that's what's bugging me the most. Figures are SAE.

 

If you was on the qtp tires,those numbers are down some for the sake of not spinning. A good drag radial would help those numbers.
Now, this car ran 10.0 at 134 with less than 600@the tires, you gonna really move with the new set up.

 

Yes the QTP were on for this dyno. 10.1. No cheating. Lol

 

so throw that msd in the mix before swapping heads and tune it. See what it does for air flow numbers

 

Thing I've notice is on higher # hp engines rwhp or @ the crank? Not just hi rpmm....is How well the top end really is feeding the piston. As the key reason Y a bigger bore makes more power is because of surface area of the piston. If you can feed the piston hp will be there! A 427 with just a solid roller should be worth 600 rwhp? 725 fwhp to the rear with a 125 hp drive line loss = 600 ....

Light bulb° brother you don't hàve à aūto.....

 

That's exactly right, which is why I came to the conclusion my heads were the linch pin here. What finally convinced me was that eggcrate thread, where Tony had ported stock castings vs his aftermarket heads with pretty big gains for what it was. Now, I do think jumping the cam from 248/255 to 256/270 AND .650 lift to .750 lift is going to also make some difference. I aimed a little high, because I also think that the longer runners and higher velocity of the heads combined is going to mechanically tame the cam by bringing the power peak to a lower RPM. So I aimed higher on the cam to compensate and keep the peak up around 7K. I won't be surprised if it still ends up lower than it is now.

But I am convinced the sniper is not all that it was cracked up to be.

 

Me and my buddy here are on Forza 7 and discussed this thought.

​​​​°= light bulb
700 @ the crank with a manual = roughly 590 to 600 rwhp.
Vengeance & a Ls7 600 rwhp... Factory Ls7 heads and hydraulic roller
Speed trigger 402ci 700 @ the crank
So 700 is a baseline. I ask why in the F* 700 + @ the crank can't begotten with 427 + ci Ls7 heads & a solid roller> which Should net 590+ rwhp . Hell Ls3 heads & 427 doing 740 ish and if a lower profile intake were used what it'd make 720. Throw in Mamo 12.3 compression and 750 with ls3 heads. Ls7 heads are better than Ls3 heads! Any 1 saying Buying Aftermarket heads are needed to out gun this vs Using factory Ls7 heads....is full of BS & Funny! 700+ = 600+ rwhp simple math. Luv Brother!

​Same guy.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s...topics/1204610

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...o-results.html

 

Would 620 rwhp be asking to much with a manual? 100+ hp loss still = 600rwhp with the combo above. Common sense math!