Not at all. And I wonder if we are talking around each other. I know 600 RW is easily achievable with stock ls7 heads. I think that partying ruined them.

 

And keep in mind I trapped 134 in 5000 DA and 3460 race weight. I do think the dyno is stingy

 

I looked at the port #'s.... this Isn't bad!!!!!!!! Could use a touch up...but it's Not Hogged out. If the same CNC program was used u good.

https://www.lingenfelter.com/product/LS7CNC.html

 

I did too. Should have been fine. But if it is not the heads then sniper is that bad of a turd.

But I think this thing is going to leap in performance.

 

12.2 compression and a 248 ish hyd cam is the old 600 rwhp black widow cam with a Ls7.... PRC vs Lingenfelter Ls7 head test?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...00-rwhp-n.html
°°°°°
New day and age.... LLSR no hyd roller bs. Key is filling the cylinder....1 thought taken from Darin... 800 + lift but Darin the port doesn't flow as much @ .800 > 370cfm Vs 379 @ .700.

More lift fills the cylinder better...... reason I Had to find a 1.3 diameter + .830 lift spring. Look at John's heads.....775 lift was child's play with that head. With à good tq curve & 302cc / 3.3 min CSA head.

You got the tools as is brother.

 

So I think in most applications the sniper is a bundle of compromises that doesn't shine in any particular area. I think the intake is continuing to feed your engine here, but never really coming into a strong point of tuning at any one point which is why you feel less than enthused about the overall power. I really think you're most deficient in exhaust cam timing with the small cam both on the opening and closing side.

How's your intake MAP look with the Sniper right now - staying at atmospheric?

Did you spec your own cam for the new one, or did someone chip in their two cents? Our IVO, IVC, and EVO are within 1* of each other everywhere which are really the most important. Just kinda neat to see. We'll be checking valve drop on my engine soon...the block is back from getting honed. I hope in another year maybe I'll have a running engine lol.




As you said, your combo now is dead stable, and it does have a wide powerband...but throw the MSD on there with no other changes how it sits I bet the thing picks up 60 ft lb and carries an advantage up to 6500...maybe do that before you swap the heads just for giggles? Give it an A to "A.5" to B comparison.

With the much larger cam I still think you should benchmark the sniper vs the MSD when all is said and done. I can't fit an MSD under my hood without some compromises so I'll be rocking the Sniper regardless. We'll see what happens. I also don't really want that extra midrange torque in my car...so it is what it is. If the new combo wants to keep running to 8000 rpm the sniper is the one that'll get that done for you.

This is one of those things where you're pretty much guaranteed to make a fuckton of power with the new parts so it isn't really worth over scrutinizing the old combo. You're changing everything...not trying to optimize that one part that is holding you back.

 

Spanks what's gets me is ......I understand better stuff, yet a factory intake has done 600 with the same general engine size and Factory heads.
​​​​​​Cam and compression should net more as is, thought ànd theory with part úsed.

 

Yeah, but you look at the torque and you find your answer. 489 rwtq vs 550 rwtq+ for many of the lower RPM long runner LS7's you typically see in C6Z builds making over 600rwhp.

Torque is VE, and with apples/apples for the same cubic inch it is clear that this combo is never really "in tune" and making as much torque/cubic inch as the long runner combos.

The curious part is why, and I think potentially there's not enough scavenging going on at high RPM to make everything work. More overlap would take advantage of the short runner high velocity intake at higher RPM. I don't think the Sniper is too small which would show up as a vacuum in the manifold.

The Sniper isn't choking out like the long runners, but it just isn't really...getting it done either. You could probably rev the existing combo to 8000 and barely see loss in power where the other style intakes fall flat on their face.

The really interesting thing to see would be to have it on the engine dyno and see what the BSFC is doing...is it not extracting good power from the fuel, or is it struggling to capture air in the combustion chamber?

 

I didn't want to say this but ..... generally find anything Above 40 degrees of Overlap make good numbers, less than 8k also. Look at when John tested his Custom sheet metal intake vs a ported Factory intake( Sniper vs MSD low key basic comparison). Also get the reasoning Y less overlap is wanted for better DD duties.


It's there but where....

 

Truth be told I think it is struggling to capture air. G/cyl hitting about 1.3. Tune is scaled, so maths are off a smidge. I get 14 mph mixed driving so I am pretty sure it is using the fuel.

I do realize I could have just cammed the **** out of it like Smokey is saying. But I see no reason it is below 600, unless the dyno is just stingy. Trap speed vs wallace racing (whatever that is worth).

And spanks is right the torque is telling the tale. But it is what it is. It is a baseline. We will see what it gains.

 

they really are pretty impressive looking at than information

 

Forgive me if I've got the wrong info because I don't follow all the build threads on here (too much to keep up with). But you have 265cc mamo ls7 heads? If so i'm sure they are every bit as good as any other reworked ls7 head out there. If you think your numbers are too low look elsewhere not the heads. Start with the swapping to 2" headers. And camshafts can be funny sometimes what you think will work in theory doesn't in practice sometimes. I'm no camshaft selection guru by any means, but I'm seeing 114 115 lsa's being posted around the place with these cam motion llsr's and I remember back years ago when people were going fast the lsa's were like in the 108s or 110. I have a cam here that I'm going to use that made 500rwhp on an aussie dyno through an auto in a stock stroke LS3, n/a. And it's only a 243/250 624/615 108 lsa hydraulic comp cam. No ground in advance, and 30 degrees overlap.

I know cam motion is a stand up company and their parts are quality but in all seriousness how much have they experimented with their lobe designs in the LS family of engines to crank out impressive hp and et numbers. I don't know I don't live in USA to see how many n/a ls cars are out there with cam motion in them but all I know is personally most of the n/a ls cars that stood out to me that dynoed and et'd great combined were mostly comp cams grinds and because they were first on the scene I think with aftermarket ls cams. Again that might not mean anything, it's just what I was seeing through the internet and my personal car and other aussie ls1 cars. I remember is back in the early 2k's everyone had an XE-R grind, me included. I broke into the 11's in the year 2003 i think it was with a little 224/224 .580 xe-r with isky 295-d single springs in the stock 99 ls1 heads, in a 3700lb (without driver) aussie HSV holden with IRS all stock suspension, it was true cam only, heads had never been lifted, pump 93 and naturally aspirated, 1 3/4 headers, still stock ls1 intake not ls6, stock tb and maf(descreened). I know that's nothing compared to what people have done by todays standards but for back then and the fact I had barely even tried and the weight of the car it just seems to me like those xe-r cams that people want to criticise 16 years later, I personally think they worked ok. After that comp cam I installed a futral 230/230 590 112 which was a cam motion grind, with stge2.5 cnc 5.3 heads that were putting down some of the best et's at the time and the car picked up 5 mph and 3.5 tenths (never hooked well and I never returned to optimise the car). If I had to guess the cam didn't seem to do all that much over the smaller 224 I think most of it was the heads from seeing what others were gaining swapping to those heads, members that were here on tech. The little 224 xe-r had some people very surprised back at the time that such a heavy car with a basically stock ls1 could break into the 11's n/a. I really don't know much about camshafts I could if i wanted to but I haven't delved into it. I look at what has worked for others and then buy that if I can.

Apologies if this came across as cricising cam motion. I'm not at all. I'd buy one of their llsr's if I knew what to spec for my build. I just don't get why people want to keep re-inventing the wheel with some things. Really we haven't come that far, some of the record holding n/a ls cars back from the early 2k's their records still stand. How many were xe-r grinds, a lot of them. Why are xe-r lobes the devil all of a sudden? When I was running that 224 xe-r I had single tool room 295-d isky springs and shift points at 7k which it saw very often and I did at least 30k miles on the street/track abusing the hell out of my car at the time with that combination before I swapped over the cam/heads, and it never missed a beat. When i removed the cam it was still like new.

It's like fast forwards 10 years and now.. "the t-rex" is a donkey dick pos etc etc etc. Well someone get their car up to beat the top 5 cam-only n/a records with another brand camshaft or even comp lobes other than xe-r, then you can call it.

 

Great post.
I have heard the same things about the xer grinds.
Weren't they famous for giving the LS engines a sewing machine type noise?
Most people these days are switching to cam motion and Texas speed by the looks of things.

 

Yes the xe-r was a bit sewing machiney but not bad enough to have been obnoxious.
People are switching but is it really for the better. I'm not in a position to call it as I haven't tried other LS cams as I took a 10 year break from messing with cars. Except for now the current cam in my Camaro which is an older gm motorsports blower cam and I didn't even write the engravings down at the time I installed it and I've forgotten what lobes it was, it's very possibly also an xe-r but maybe not as i don't think it as sewing machine sounding as i remember my 224 xe-r was. I never got a cam card with it as i bought it used.
I'm waiting to see your results with the new llsr and i will have to go back and read your build thread again to remember what your previous cam was.

 

Previous camshaft was a cam motion and it turned out pretty well.
Very quiet running.
Just want more top end power now.
It's all in the thread.

 

@Launch-- just to clear things up. I have ls7 heads. I'm swapping to Mamo. The dyno I posted was the baseline pull. Prior to the swap.

 

When will you dyno it with Mamo heads, MSD and other new items? You mention only 40 hp from 346 how much TQ did you gain? Was more of the gain down lower at say 4,000 rpm? I think the Lingenfleter heads are pretty good remember the test that was done about 6 years ago on a 495 CID motor in a magazine on like 6 heads. The Mast was the winner at like 810 hp the Lingenfelter did pretty good at like 795 hp. TQ I think was within 10-15 of the MAST 305 head. This was done with a Holley Dominator style manifold. The Tony set up should do well. Your TQ to HP delta of 90+ points is pretty good your TQ is a little low if you can get that up and still keep the 90 point delta that would get you the 600rwhp.

 

You said it brother... There's no F"ing way 429 and 12.2+ compression with 250 degrees of durations Would not make 730 min. Hp @ the crank. 12.2 compression with 250 plus ='s 700 @ the crank with nothing more than a 402. Stingy maybe but if the mph is there you know what's going on as a Dyno typically doesn't put a load on the motor like the track will. Some tuneups in a car can be done on the dyno for hero pulls.....looked over Hammers build and times....Sniper works! Mph says so....intake wants more RPM. ° think of where Hammer makes hp & mph.

 

Think about this..... If you swap heads and get 640 rwhp you should net what for ET and mph. Keep it simple with basic math.

Key reason I like a vehicle under 3000 lbs for Any kind of build. Instantly fast as if you've got mere normal power levels it's fast. 6.0 hyd roller* Hatchback stang runs 9's as a DD. I'd say 690 @ the crank on a good day with Jesus in the background. Similar build on YB with a t350 & 6.0 dialed in does 1.20's 60 ft times...Wow! Makes me carry on.


BTW .....Happy turkey day to all U ....... MF'ers.
LMAO!

 

Gobble til ya s wobble!!! Good read sofar guys...learning i am!