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500 rwkw is totally believable for this build. On an honest engine dyno, should be an 800 hp build. Figure drivetrain losses to put it in the high 660-700 range, which puts you right there. These mamo 265 heads have the dyno record for many dyno operators. It's pretty amazing how many guys have posted that exact comment on a mamo ls7 headed build
I have never seen a 454 being able to make that much NA even a well optimised combination.
I'm just comparing it to the LSX 468 Which made 380rwkw with a low lash solid roller and Mast Black Label 305CC LS7 heads plus a fast 102.
Are mamo's 265 heads that much better?
I have never seen a 454 being able to make that much NA even a well optimised combination.
I'm just comparing it to the LSX 468 Which made 380rwkw with a low lash solid roller and Mast Black Label 305CC LS7 heads plus a fast 102.
Are mamo's 265 heads that much better?
Which 468 is that??? I made more than that with a 346, as did PatG
This is the dyno sheet with ls3 heads and ls3 intake
Engine now has mms ls7 heads , mms msd intake, cam is a 259/265 solid roller, crower solid lifters..... The new engine set a record on MPW's dyno
Maybe you havnt read build specs of this engine, 400rwkw is 536rwhp
I have no reason to fabricate misinformation.....
I just noticed that's a dyno dynamics. Those are notoriously stingy. When I hit 519 on a previous build, I redynoed on a dynamics and got 480. Very likely, if you could find a 4000 lb roller dynojet, you'll clear 700 rwhp.
Which 468 is that??? I made more than that with a 346, as did PatG
It's an engine I have mentioned numerous times.
Remember that 468 I was telling you about with the low lash solid roller from Cam motion?
It has a 252/264 114LSA+4 camshaft from Pat G.
I also thought the power figure was quite low myself especially with those mast heads on it.
305CC is a big intake runner.
Might be too big for that size engine?
It's an engine I have mentioned numerous times.
Remember that 468 I was telling you about with the low lash solid roller from Cam motion?
It has a 252/264 114LSA+4 camshaft from Pat G.
I also thought the power figure was quite low myself especially with those mast heads on it.
305CC is a big intake runner.
Might be too big for that size engine?
I remember you mentioning one yes, but it gets lost in the clutter. Is there a build thread?
I don't know enough about the mast heads to make an intelligent comment, but I would not suspect the heads were killing 100 hp or more. Now that Darin Morgan is at Mast, I keep looking to see if there are any sudden advancements in their LS7 stuff.
I thought maybe you meant fnbadaz's build, which was high 700's flywheel before some of the upgrades and made 577 rwhp six years ago. And that was in Arizona, with their DA and heat, SAE power would likely be 600 range.
I just noticed that's a dyno dynamics. Those are notoriously stingy. When I hit 519 on a previous build, I redynoed on a dynamics and got 480. Very likely, if you could find a 4000 lb roller dynojet, you'll clear 700 rwhp.
Now that you mentioned Dyno dynamics this was the very first dyno my vehicle was ever put on.
I went to a renowned shop in Melbourne who did a fantastic job for tune only with headers, exhaust and OTR.
About one or two years later was when I first met my current tuner.
When we put the car on his dyno the tune needed a bit of a touch up but when he was done power was within 1kw compared to the first place I went to.
I think in Australia the stingy dynos are the mainline.
Speaking of threads, I found a very interesting article about cathedral port heads where it lists all the flow numbers of all the popular brands and I'm thinking of starting one to see what you guys think for a future build.
There is no build thread of that 468.
All i know is that the owner also purchased the same lifters as you and he was running the same springs as us and I think he had jesel shaft mount rockers too.
Will be interesting to see what Mast come up with now with Darin there.
As I mentioned here in Australia at Higgins Heads, all his port programs are from Darin.
I have never seen a 454 being able to make that much NA even a well optimised combination.
I'm just comparing it to the LSX 468 Which made 380rwkw with a low lash solid roller and Mast Black Label 305CC LS7 heads plus a fast 102.
Are mamo's 265 heads that much better?
Built by the guy doing your set up now, fast 102 doesnt compare either to the mamo ported msd.
Built by the guy doing your set up now, fast 102 doesnt compare either to the mamo ported msd.
I know the Mamo MSD is better,
Just like me the owner wanted that intake.
Tuner wanted to fit something else.
If I had LS7 heads I would either go a Mamo or try that new Fast tunnel ram.
It's an engine I have mentioned numerous times.
Remember that 468 I was telling you about with the low lash solid roller from Cam motion?
It has a 252/264 114LSA+4 camshaft from Pat G.
I also thought the power figure was quite low myself especially with those mast heads on it.
305CC is a big intake runner.
Might be too big for that size engine?
380rwkw (510 RWHP) from a built 468ci with ls7 heads and 252/264 solid roller is honestly a bit sad. The owner should be asking where his extra 50 rwkw's went (at least). Was it down a cylinder?
Not sure if I've ever seen anything very special from mast ls7 heads but that said even I wouldn't think they'd be down so much power. Like already mentioned 346's have made 500 RWHP.
Higgins heads aren't anything that great either. His cathedrals for 5.7's don't make the power of many of the american CNC cathedrals. I made more power with a 346 with cnc factory 5.3 heads and basic stuff, than Higgins cnc catherdrals typically do. I see typically 280rwkw from his heads/cam 5.7's, and I was at 320rwkw with my sbe heads/cam 346 naturally aspirated back in the year 2004 in my 99 HSV R8 Holden. I submitted the timeslips of my car and a vid at the time here on this forum, which is why I have 11 second club under my username. It was 3700lbs and ran 120mph in the 1/4 mile with lots of things not optimised.
380rwkw (510 RWHP) from a built 468ci with ls7 heads and 252/264 solid roller is honestly a bit sad. The owner should be asking where his extra 50 rwkw's went (at least). Was it down a cylinder?
Not sure if I've ever seen anything very special from mast ls7 heads but that said even I wouldn't think they'd be down so much power. Like already mentioned 346's have made 500 RWHP.
Higgins heads aren't anything that great either. His cathedrals for 5.7's don't make the power of many of the american CNC cathedrals. I made more power with a 346 with cnc factory 5.3 heads and basic stuff, than Higgins cnc catherdrals typically do. I see typically 280rwkw from his heads/cam 5.7's, and I was at 320rwkw with my sbe heads/cam 346 naturally aspirated back in the year 2004 in my 99 HSV R8 Holden. I submitted the timeslips of my car and a vid at the time here on this forum, which is why I have 11 second club under my username. It was 3700lbs and ran 120mph in the 1/4 mile with lots of things not optimised.
Im going to find out more info on that 468.
380rwkw is too low.
My 408 when it was running right was only 10rwkw down.
I thought higgins cathedral port programs are pretty good too.
Maybe only his LS3 and LS7 stuff is?
Those are great numbers for the 346.
And good times too.
My brother had a set of higgins heads done for his LS1.
He used a camshaft that was just a waste because he was afraid it would be too aggressive.
A 211/218 113LSA.
It made 280rwkw but there was potential to make so much more.
I got to say when he did the heads the throttle was more responsive and torquier,
My cam at the time was only a 230/230 so it wasn't huge. Back when I got my heads it was said they were as high as 240cc intake runners (not advertised by the head porter), which a lot of people at the time thought were too large for a n/a 346. Well his heads were running some of the most impressive ET's at the time over in USA and my car gained 4 tenths and I think 6mph from memory just from the heads swap, which I did at the time with no other changes. My car had more torque and HP everywhere after the heads. If I had tried I could have got it in the 10.9 1/4 mile. I still had all stock HSV suspension which was rock hard (if you ever driven a VT R8 you would know they felt like they used solid shock absorbers). It never got full traction. I'm not saying Higgins heads are bad, but they're not as heavily cnc'd as great ones. Even the chambers aren't as worked. That said, the 5.3 truck heads have smaller chambers and end up a better head with a good cnc program. than the 5.7 stuff. My heads were CNC 5.3 heads. I'm sure Higgins can do better cathedrals if he wanted, his own personal car ran 8's naturally aspirated LSX. But the generic 5.7 cnc cathedrals he sells aren't anything special.
That sounds crazy low for a 468. I'd be expecting closer to 750 wheel hp for that type of build. There's a 440 LS7. Same build as mine but he got his finished first. Made over 700 and it's not even a radical 440. With a plastic intake I might add lol
I just noticed that's a dyno dynamics. Those are notoriously stingy. When I hit 519 on a previous build, I redynoed on a dynamics and got 480. Very likely, if you could find a 4000 lb roller dynojet, you'll clear 700 rwhp.
Ill hit my goal.... very close to it now , 18rwhp... I pick it up today
The mainline dynos read higher , dyno dynamics are stingy bastards. I have read that dynos in the U.S read higher than here in Aus
I knew it was going to dyno around tht mark, butt dyno was saying it was far quicker than last engine..
As has been said all over the internet, Dynos are a tuning tool....My test will be hitting 300kmh down the straight at Phillip Island and doing the same at Bathurst down conrod.
When i booked car in for dyno i said to tuner that i wanted 500rwkw , id be happy at 480rwkw...He didnt say much at all then, but, when i went saw him yesterday he was all over it asking question of everything. Actually told me he thought i was full of ****... He was mighty impressed.
As i said earlier, I studied and planned for months with this engine build. I didnt take any advice from engine builder and told him what parts we were using. It was machined and assembled once.Due dilligence, its called. The cam was the only item that always is 2nd guessing.
I saw the video on YouTube the other day actually.
its a good build. I see it has trickflows.
Seems to me you might have to build me an engine one day.
Look forward to seeing the dyno sheet.
Ill hit my goal.... very close to it now , 18rwhp... I pick it up today
The mainline dynos read higher , dyno dynamics are stingy bastards. I have read that dynos in the U.S read higher than here in Aus
I knew it was going to dyno around tht mark, butt dyno was saying it was far quicker than last engine..
As has been said all over the internet, Dynos are a tuning tool....My test will be hitting 300kmh down the straight at Phillip Island and doing the same at Bathurst down conrod.
When i booked car in for dyno i said to tuner that i wanted 500rwkw , id be happy at 480rwkw...He didnt say much at all then, but, when i went saw him yesterday he was all over it asking question of everything. Actually told me he thought i was full of ****... He was mighty impressed.
As i said earlier, I studied and planned for months with this engine build. I didnt take any advice from engine builder and told him what parts we were using. It was machined and assembled once.Due dilligence, its called. The cam was the only item that always is 2nd guessing.
Often the cam is the hardest part. Sometimes I see people do it backwards. "I picked this $350 cam, now how do I find heads that maximize the cam?" Much rather focus on the heads. Get those right. If you're off on the cam by a degree or two, it won't matter, because the heads will always perform. put more simply, fantastic heads gives you more margin for error on cam selection. Just my opinion.
I'm just really happy for you on this motor. I've been in that dyno situation before. One time, I went in and dyno'd the 346. This was my first over 500, when I hit 510. Car went back, he did a few baseline pulls. Took the car off the dyno, ran a few routines, put the car back on, and it gained power. Then he came out and asked me what my displacement was. I told him 346, he didn't believe me. THen the shop owner came out and asked if I knew the car had cleared 500. I told him I expected it to. He shook his head and laughed. Said I had the highest NA LS1 on his dyno by 40 hp. He'd never seen one over 470 before that. After they were done and had decided it was as good as it would get, we spent at least an hour going over the particulars. Makes for a cool story, at least.
Often the cam is the hardest part. Sometimes I see people do it backwards. "I picked this $350 cam, now how do I find heads that maximize the cam?" Much rather focus on the heads. Get those right. If you're off on the cam by a degree or two, it won't matter, because the heads will always perform. put more simply, fantastic heads gives you more margin for error on cam selection. Just my opinion.
I'm just really happy for you on this motor. I've been in that dyno situation before. One time, I went in and dyno'd the 346. This was my first over 500, when I hit 510. Car went back, he did a few baseline pulls. Took the car off the dyno, ran a few routines, put the car back on, and it gained power. Then he came out and asked me what my displacement was. I told him 346, he didn't believe me. THen the shop owner came out and asked if I knew the car had cleared 500. I told him I expected it to. He shook his head and laughed. Said I had the highest NA LS1 on his dyno by 40 hp. He'd never seen one over 470 before that. After they were done and had decided it was as good as it would get, we spent at least an hour going over the particulars. Makes for a cool story, at least.
How good does it feel.
I have E85 9-12rwhp, EWP 5-6rwhp, vacuum pump 12-15rwhp, 2inch extractors 8-12 rwhp, still up my sleeve.... Thats 32 rwhp only need 18 so im good
Often the cam is the hardest part. Sometimes I see people do it backwards. "I picked this $350 cam, now how do I find heads that maximize the cam?" Much rather focus on the heads. Get those right. If you're off on the cam by a degree or two, it won't matter, because the heads will always perform. put more simply, fantastic heads gives you more margin for error on cam selection. Just my opinion.
I'm just really happy for you on this motor. I've been in that dyno situation before. One time, I went in and dyno'd the 346. This was my first over 500, when I hit 510. Car went back, he did a few baseline pulls. Took the car off the dyno, ran a few routines, put the car back on, and it gained power. Then he came out and asked me what my displacement was. I told him 346, he didn't believe me. THen the shop owner came out and asked if I knew the car had cleared 500. I told him I expected it to. He shook his head and laughed. Said I had the highest NA LS1 on his dyno by 40 hp. He'd never seen one over 470 before that. After they were done and had decided it was as good as it would get, we spent at least an hour going over the particulars. Makes for a cool story, at least.
That would.be a great thing to experience.
Thanks to those afr 205cc if I remember correctly.
That would.be a great thing to experience.
Thanks to those afr 205cc if I remember correctly.
No, I ran one of Tony's earliest sets of 220's. I don't want to clutter up Micky's thread, so I'll just refer you to the 346 link in my signature. The thread is VERY long, but I kept the OP updated so the build list is complete. it evolved several times as I got more and more "out there". I miss that engine sometimes. It hurt a lot of butts. AKAIK, it still has the SBE NA record for a LS1/LS6.
I like the AFR 205's. I actually would like to see how they would do in a 5.3, if the valves would fit the bore.
Very inspiring build Mickey, well done mate. Can imagine what they were thinking when you told them you expect it to make 500rwkw lol. Makes me want to start from scratch with my 427 LS3... It's only making 350rwkw (shambles of a build from HT-P in QLD)
I saw the video on YouTube the other day actually.
its a good build. I see it has trickflows.
Seems to me you might have to build me an engine one day.
Look forward to seeing the dyno sheet.
The trick flows are what Tony Mamo uses as a base and then modifies them to make his MMS LS7 heads. I believe that's what Micky has since we were talking Mamo stuff earlier. Same as Me and Darth as well. I don't know what version Micky has but Darth's are a little more updated than mine. I think they flow a touch more
01-15-2020, 07:19 AM
