Whose making 550rwhp N/A on a 402 LS2 stroker
04-05-2007, 09:36 AM
#61
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Who is steering you in this direction to buy the TFS stuff? You've spent more in cylinder heads in the last 2 combos that I could have set you up with a set of Dart 225s that will make more power then the last 2 or 3 setups would have done and saved you money had you listened a year ago. You still gotta buy shaft mount rockers for the TFS stuff because the stock rockers just wont operate at the 13.5 degree angle. People are ripping the rocker stands out and tearing up valves. For the same amount of money you are about to drop to make that stuff work why not get a set of Darts done by my guy and re cam the car through him and I GUARANTEE it will make more power then youve ever made NA by 50 rwhp!
JK 
04-05-2007, 10:20 AM
#62
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Who is steering you in this direction to buy the TFS stuff? You've spent more in cylinder heads in the last 2 combos that I could have set you up with a set of Dart 225s that will make more power then the last 2 or 3 setups would have done and saved you money had you listened a year ago. You still gotta buy shaft mount rockers for the TFS stuff because the stock rockers just wont operate at the 13.5 degree angle. People are ripping the rocker stands out and tearing up valves. For the same amount of money you are about to drop to make that stuff work why not get a set of Darts done by my guy and re cam the car through him and I GUARANTEE it will make more power then youve ever made NA by 50 rwhp!
04-05-2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
Hey Mike, don't hold back, tell him how you feel. JK
JKLast edited by V6 Bird; 04-05-2007 at 11:35 AM.
04-05-2007, 12:05 PM
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Please tell me what you end up with iam also looking for a something similiar for my C5 Z06 427+ that can produce 550 rwhp on pump and take a 150 shot of NOS.
Originally Posted by Chicago Crew UnderBoss
Wow, this thread has turned into being quite an entertaining one at that!
I decided to take a pass on the motor I referenced here after many long hours of soul searching, b/c the compression (primarily dynamic) is too high for my own peace of mind for a street motor (that will only see limitied track use).
I am now talking with LME and Canadian Perf. about building me a Trick FLow headed 416 L92 motor and even possibly a 430 CID Trick Flow headed LS7 motor (the engine i really want but exceeds what i want to spend). Either motor would have 11:7 to 1 compression with a dynamic compression of 8:6 to 1, and should make 550rwhp in my C5 Z06 with pump gas, a ported fast 90 and a nice cam in the range of a 244/250, on a 112 lsa!
If i don't pull the trigger will just keep my current blown LS6 motor for another year and this time next year build a 600rwhp, 482 CID LSX motor!
I decided to take a pass on the motor I referenced here after many long hours of soul searching, b/c the compression (primarily dynamic) is too high for my own peace of mind for a street motor (that will only see limitied track use).
I am now talking with LME and Canadian Perf. about building me a Trick FLow headed 416 L92 motor and even possibly a 430 CID Trick Flow headed LS7 motor (the engine i really want but exceeds what i want to spend). Either motor would have 11:7 to 1 compression with a dynamic compression of 8:6 to 1, and should make 550rwhp in my C5 Z06 with pump gas, a ported fast 90 and a nice cam in the range of a 244/250, on a 112 lsa!
If i don't pull the trigger will just keep my current blown LS6 motor for another year and this time next year build a 600rwhp, 482 CID LSX motor!
04-05-2007, 05:21 PM
#65
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Who is steering you in this direction to buy the TFS stuff? You've spent more in cylinder heads in the last 2 combos that I could have set you up with a set of Dart 225s that will make more power then the last 2 or 3 setups would have done and saved you money had you listened a year ago. You still gotta buy shaft mount rockers for the TFS stuff because the stock rockers just wont operate at the 13.5 degree angle. People are ripping the rocker stands out and tearing up valves. For the same amount of money you are about to drop to make that stuff work why not get a set of Darts done by my guy and re cam the car through him and I GUARANTEE it will make more power then youve ever made NA by 50 rwhp!
The TFS heads do not require "shaft mount" roller rockers, they do require "any" type of roller rocker arms, and if you had any idea of the amount of testing that TFS has performed, then you would also know that the roller rocker is the only way to go on any type of aftermarket head.
I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, I hope it's not the same place as the 18cfm TFS 215 gain from "changing one thing", cause I know what happened there better than you do, and the head did get hurt significantly before this "one thing" happened.
If you have someone who can get a Dart head to flow more than 280 @ .400" then you may have a head that will make more power than the TFS 225's, but I would like to see it with my own eyes first, cause the best we have seen from anything else is 270 @ .400" If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
The AFR, Dart and other heads we do would generally make consistent 510-520 RWHP on 402-408 engines, with pump gas compression and a smallish hyd roller cam. This new TFS 225 head makes consistent 540-550 RWHP on the same setup's, backed up by numerous dyno shops.
If you would like to know that truth about many things feel free to PM or call me.
04-05-2007, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I have not steered him in any direction, however, I can say that the TFS heads should make more power on a hyd roller cam, pump gas 414 than any Dart head made. For that matter more than any 15 degree head made. We port Dart heads, we have Dart heads running 7's on Mikes turbo car. The TFS heads in place of the Darts would make even more power, they have a stronger chamber due to relocating the spark plug away from the seats, which is important on a turbo car, just ask Kurt at W2W. The TFS heads also have a more efficient chamber in general.
The TFS heads do not require "shaft mount" roller rockers, they do require "any" type of roller rocker arms, and if you had any idea of the amount of testing that TFS has performed, then you would also know that the roller rocker is the only way to go on any type of aftermarket head.
I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, I hope it's not the same place as the 18cfm TFS 215 gain from "changing one thing", cause I know what happened there better than you do, and the head did get hurt significantly before this "one thing" happened.
If you have someone who can get a Dart head to flow more than 280 @ .400" then you may have a head that will make more power than the TFS 225's, but I would like to see it with my own eyes first, cause the best we have seen from anything else is 270 @ .400" If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
The AFR, Dart and other heads we do would generally make consistent 510-520 RWHP on 402-408 engines, with pump gas compression and a smallish hyd roller cam. This new TFS 225 head makes consistent 540-550 RWHP on the same setup's, backed up by numerous dyno shops.
If you would like to know that truth about many things feel free to PM or call me.
The TFS heads do not require "shaft mount" roller rockers, they do require "any" type of roller rocker arms, and if you had any idea of the amount of testing that TFS has performed, then you would also know that the roller rocker is the only way to go on any type of aftermarket head.
I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, I hope it's not the same place as the 18cfm TFS 215 gain from "changing one thing", cause I know what happened there better than you do, and the head did get hurt significantly before this "one thing" happened.
If you have someone who can get a Dart head to flow more than 280 @ .400" then you may have a head that will make more power than the TFS 225's, but I would like to see it with my own eyes first, cause the best we have seen from anything else is 270 @ .400" If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
The AFR, Dart and other heads we do would generally make consistent 510-520 RWHP on 402-408 engines, with pump gas compression and a smallish hyd roller cam. This new TFS 225 head makes consistent 540-550 RWHP on the same setup's, backed up by numerous dyno shops.
If you would like to know that truth about many things feel free to PM or call me.
Don't all head porters lose cfm when they touch new materials? Thats what R&D is for. Bottom line here seems to be that you guys claim they cant be picked up and you arent denying the fact that they weren't. Regardless of what happened before they are up 18 over the baseline out of the box numbers. Clarification is needed.
04-05-2007, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/659257-et-245-s-flow-down-low-pics.html
Last edited by Cobraeater; 04-06-2007 at 06:40 PM.
04-06-2007, 12:44 AM
#70
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I have not steered him in any direction, however, I can say that the TFS heads should make more power on a hyd roller cam, pump gas 414 than any Dart head made. For that matter more than any 15 degree head made. We port Dart heads, we have Dart heads running 7's on Mikes turbo car. The TFS heads in place of the Darts would make even more power, they have a stronger chamber due to relocating the spark plug away from the seats, which is important on a turbo car, just ask Kurt at W2W. The TFS heads also have a more efficient chamber in general.
The TFS heads do not require "shaft mount" roller rockers, they do require "any" type of roller rocker arms, and if you had any idea of the amount of testing that TFS has performed, then you would also know that the roller rocker is the only way to go on any type of aftermarket head.
I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, I hope it's not the same place as the 18cfm TFS 215 gain from "changing one thing", cause I know what happened there better than you do, and the head did get hurt significantly before this "one thing" happened.
If you have someone who can get a Dart head to flow more than 280 @ .400" then you may have a head that will make more power than the TFS 225's, but I would like to see it with my own eyes first, cause the best we have seen from anything else is 270 @ .400" If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
The AFR, Dart and other heads we do would generally make consistent 510-520 RWHP on 402-408 engines, with pump gas compression and a smallish hyd roller cam. This new TFS 225 head makes consistent 540-550 RWHP on the same setup's, backed up by numerous dyno shops.
If you would like to know that truth about many things feel free to PM or call me.
The TFS heads do not require "shaft mount" roller rockers, they do require "any" type of roller rocker arms, and if you had any idea of the amount of testing that TFS has performed, then you would also know that the roller rocker is the only way to go on any type of aftermarket head.
I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, I hope it's not the same place as the 18cfm TFS 215 gain from "changing one thing", cause I know what happened there better than you do, and the head did get hurt significantly before this "one thing" happened.
If you have someone who can get a Dart head to flow more than 280 @ .400" then you may have a head that will make more power than the TFS 225's, but I would like to see it with my own eyes first, cause the best we have seen from anything else is 270 @ .400" If you said you had a ET 11 degree head that would outpower the TFS heads, then you would have a more believable story.
The AFR, Dart and other heads we do would generally make consistent 510-520 RWHP on 402-408 engines, with pump gas compression and a smallish hyd roller cam. This new TFS 225 head makes consistent 540-550 RWHP on the same setup's, backed up by numerous dyno shops.
If you would like to know that truth about many things feel free to PM or call me.
So you're saying put these heads on a 408" engine, you will make 700 HP on pump gas?
If so, I'll buy a set today!... Then I'll "engine Dyno" the motor and post the results... You just tell me what cam you want me to run and the desired static C/R... Deal?
04-06-2007, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicago Crew UnderBoss
If yes, what compression, heads and cam specs you running and any 1/4 mile ets and mph? I believe this is going to be my next set-up and my goals are a reliable, bullet proof N/A LS2 402, that will run 10.5s at the track at over 130 mph in my C5 Z06, and the next weekend can be flogged all afternoon at a road race track!! 
You may be able to do it BUT ask your self do you want a car that works for a few weeks months???? not streetabl or something that your can drive for years to come making good pwr 475 - 500 safely???
04-06-2007, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I have not steered him in any direction, however, I can say that the TFS heads should make more power on a hyd roller cam, pump gas 414 than any Dart head made. For that matter more than any 15 degree head made. We port Dart heads, we have Dart heads running 7's on Mikes turbo car. The TFS heads in place of the Darts would make even more power, they have a stronger chamber due to relocating the spark plug away from the seats, which is important on a turbo car, just ask Kurt at W2W. The TFS heads also have a more efficient chamber in general.
04-06-2007, 04:38 AM
#73
Originally Posted by Cobraeater
So you're saying that the TFS will make more power than any 15 degree head, but if that's true why are the ETP's with even a smaller valve angle of 11 degrees making less power than your TFS 13.5 degree heads on the 215cc and 225cc size heads.
where did you get that info? god there's a ton of BS out there abotu what heads are making what for power LOL.
04-06-2007, 07:44 AM
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Valve angle plays an important role at .400 lift. the advantage will go to the TFS heads for sure though. Where exactly did that casting originate from anyway before it was tweaked? Was it come up with on your own or copied from an existing cylinder head?
Are you saying that a mildly ported set of L92s vs your out of the box TFS 225's didnt make more power on a recent dyno? Something to the effect of ~50 ft lbs more torque...That tells me the power is there but its in the tuning to find the rest of it to match the torque numbers.
Im not taking nothing away from the TFS...Those are BADDDD mothas. But for a year worth of R&D vs a day on the mildly ported L92s and they make a pretty good amount more torque. Im saving $1000 and going with some more reasonable to make the same power.
Are you saying that a mildly ported set of L92s vs your out of the box TFS 225's didnt make more power on a recent dyno? Something to the effect of ~50 ft lbs more torque...That tells me the power is there but its in the tuning to find the rest of it to match the torque numbers.
Im not taking nothing away from the TFS...Those are BADDDD mothas. But for a year worth of R&D vs a day on the mildly ported L92s and they make a pretty good amount more torque. Im saving $1000 and going with some more reasonable to make the same power.
Last edited by 1936FordPU; 04-06-2007 at 08:30 AM.
04-06-2007, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6
where did you get that info? god there's a ton of BS out there abotu what heads are making what for power LOL.
How many ls1's have hit 500rwhp with ETP 215's, when the ETP first came out Andy at A@A was posting up a 480rwhp ls1 and 500rwhp ls2s which isn't exactly ground breaking anymore and was right in line with what AFR heads have achieved on a few occasions.
How many times have AFR and ETP hit 500rwhp compared to the TFS.
I guess you think the ETP's make the most power, but where are the results then. The ETP heads have been out since late 2005.
BTW. I'm talking about the ETP 215 and 225cc heads only.
And other than Miami's 511rwhp ETP 215cc car, name another example.
04-06-2007, 04:51 PM
#76
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Don't all head porters lose cfm when they touch new materials? Thats what R&D is for. Bottom line here seems to be that you guys claim they cant be picked up and you arent denying the fact that they weren't. Regardless of what happened before they are up 18 over the baseline out of the box numbers. Clarification is needed.
Originally Posted by Cobraeater
So you're saying that the TFS will make more power than any 15 degree head, but if that's true why are the ETP's with even a smaller valve angle of 11 degrees making less power than your TFS 13.5 degree heads on the 215cc and 225cc size heads.
Originally Posted by LSmonster
So you're saying put these heads on a 408" engine, you will make 700 HP on pump gas? If so, I'll buy a set today!... Then I'll "engine Dyno" the motor and post the results... You just tell me what cam you want me to run and the desired static C/R... Deal?
If so, I'll buy a set today!... Then I'll "engine Dyno" the motor and post the results... You just tell me what cam you want me to run and the desired static C/R... Deal?
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Valve angle plays an important role at .400 lift. the advantage will go to the TFS heads for sure though. Where exactly did that casting originate from anyway before it was tweaked? Was it come up with on your own or copied from an existing cylinder head?
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Are you saying that a mildly ported set of L92s vs your out of the box TFS 225's didnt make more power on a recent dyno? Something to the effect of ~50 ft lbs more torque...That tells me the power is there but its in the tuning to find the rest of it to match the torque numbers. .
.
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Im not taking nothing away from the TFS...Those are BADDDD mothas. But for a year worth of R&D vs a day on the mildly ported L92s and they make a pretty good amount more torque. Im saving $1000 and going with some more reasonable to make the same power.
Last edited by Brian Tooley Racing; 04-11-2007 at 03:04 PM.
04-06-2007, 05:08 PM
#77
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BRIAN/TEA
Set you a pm about buying complete top end package regarding TRS 225, rockers, intake, etc., etc., for a 427 LS7 shortblock. Looking forward to hearing back from you bro and enjoy the EASTER HOLIDAY!
Set you a pm about buying complete top end package regarding TRS 225, rockers, intake, etc., etc., for a 427 LS7 shortblock. Looking forward to hearing back from you bro and enjoy the EASTER HOLIDAY!
Last edited by Chicago Crew UnderBoss; 04-06-2007 at 05:57 PM.
04-06-2007, 07:07 PM
#78
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
The heads WERE NOT PICKED UP 18 CFM FROM BASE LINE NUMBERS. The heads were worked on, lost a good bit of flow, and then one area was massaged and got 18cfm back.
The ET heads had issues that kept them from making the power, the extra weight of the .550” longer than stock valves for one.
I don't know where you came up with 700HP, but us and TFS have numerous customers that make that power. One customer who bought his TFS 225 heads from TFS (Summit) took off AFR 225's and installed the TFS 225's and his power went from 493 RWHP to 541 RWHP. How long do you think that post stayed around?
TFS has their own casting, that they designed and made, and has their name on it, and only TFS has it. You can buy it from Summit, TFS and any TFS dealer.
I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you have the dyno data handy?
Can you get a set of L92 heads ported to make close to the power of the TFS heads complete with springs for $1400?
The ET heads had issues that kept them from making the power, the extra weight of the .550” longer than stock valves for one.
I don't know where you came up with 700HP, but us and TFS have numerous customers that make that power. One customer who bought his TFS 225 heads from TFS (Summit) took off AFR 225's and installed the TFS 225's and his power went from 493 RWHP to 541 RWHP. How long do you think that post stayed around?
TFS has their own casting, that they designed and made, and has their name on it, and only TFS has it. You can buy it from Summit, TFS and any TFS dealer.
I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you have the dyno data handy?
Can you get a set of L92 heads ported to make close to the power of the TFS heads complete with springs for $1400?
I'll bite... I sent you a email. I'll try a set. <(Install them on a 402" engine and engine dyno & chassis dyno it)... Where I'm from a Mustang Dynos has at least a 20% drive trail loss and a Super Flow 901 engine dyno will back up that percentage... But Hey...Maybe you're right and this is the best set of heads out there... But it's gotta be a pump gas, hydraulic cam, stock style intake manifold with a 90mm T/B... No sheet metal intakes...
04-07-2007, 12:47 PM
#79
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
One customer who bought his TFS 225 heads from TFS (Summit) took off AFR 225's and installed the TFS 225's and his power went from 493 RWHP to 541 RWHP.
I believe there must be more to this story. No way you're going to get on AFR by 48 rwhp.
Disclaimer: I'm not "picking" on you Brian, I'm just disagreeing. So there's no need to PM me about this post or to call any of our mutual friends to whine about it.
04-07-2007, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Who is steering you in this direction to buy the TFS stuff? You've spent more in cylinder heads in the last 2 combos that I could have set you up with a set of Dart 225s that will make more power then the last 2 or 3 setups would have done and saved you money had you listened a year ago. You still gotta buy shaft mount rockers for the TFS stuff because the stock rockers just wont operate at the 13.5 degree angle. People are ripping the rocker stands out and tearing up valves. For the same amount of money you are about to drop to make that stuff work why not get a set of Darts done by my guy and re cam the car through him and I GUARANTEE it will make more power then youve ever made NA by 50 rwhp!
one occasion where i agree with ole Hutto 100%!!!! Jerm.... take his advice!
Jerm.... dont spend all that extra cash if it is not worth the gains. There are other things you can do to the car with the money and get better benifit... such as improving the suspension, EWP, Nitrous, Intake changes etc etc etc..... save your cash, get a well ported L92 setup with a good intake or Dart setup and be done with it. You dont need shaft rockers to make good power. If you want shafts..... just go with a solid roller and use the truck as a daily.
Last edited by WizeAss; 04-07-2007 at 05:58 PM.