SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

sometimes i wish i had gone with an LS1. the aftermarket is very strong for them and the potential for power is alot more apparent. but i still love my LT1... even with all the bs headachs it gives me lol

thanks man i am too lol if i dropped a valve through my piston i woulda just parted the car then killed myself.

that was the route i was thinking about taking. either the golds or the Xtreme duel springs from them. i want to figure it out today/tomorrow so i can order them

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Deja Vu.
I got a set of the proven defective Comp 918 beehives a few years ago. Busted the top coil on three in just 20 miles. Called Comp and they were helpful and more than made the situation good.

I then went with the Patriot extremes and have been pleased with them and have not encountered any valve float or other issues. When I had the PAC beehives, I had massive float at 6K RPM and the motor fell on its face.

I know some have had success with the beehives but I still believe they simply work better on the lighter LS1 valves than our heavier LT1 valves.

I will never run a beehive again.

ThreeHonks

iTrader: (10)

Patroit Extreme Dual Springs FTW

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

thanks for the reply i was thinking about the pac's but i opted against it

i just ordered a set of the patriot extremes' hopefully theyll be as good as everyone says they are

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

The PAC's were definitely better than the Comps in the sense that they did not break for at least a year.

You will love the Patriots but just one word of warning. I installed some extremes on a friends LT1 and the valve seals they sent were the wrong size on the OD and the inner spring made contact and actually pulled the seal off of the guide. Clearly this ain't no good.

I called Patriot and they said a wrong batch of seals made it out for the LT1 extreme kits. Obviously you have to have a tight OD to ensure they don't make contact with the inner spring. Once they sent the right seals, all was good. IIRC, the clearance on each side of the seal was about .010" from hitting the springs. Now thats close.

Just make sure you dont have the same problem.

At the time my heads were off of the car for some work so I had my engine builder machine my guides down to .500" just like LS1 heads. This allows me to use any spring combo practically under the sun and there is plenty of room for the seal without having to go thin wall thickness.

Some good advice for anyone doing LT1 head work. Have the guides machined down to .500". It was rather cheap to do.

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

thanks wrd1972, ill def pay close attention to that. and in fact ill order a new set of valve spring seals just to be safe. im going to be doing it with my heads on the car so no machine work will be done. but if i ever take them off ill be sure to keep what you said in mind

BLK,97,T/A,M-6

Ive been running the patriot gold extreme's for a while now also. Car gets its *** kicked regularly, and often see's 6700 to 6850, and have had no issues. (except the stock opti crapping out) I'd love to hear the things this guy heard 'around his car club'. I'm sure Lloyd wouldnt use them as his upgrade springs if they had a flawed history. I think mad hatter is just running his mouth to hear his voice.

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

to each there own. i appreciate any input on the matter. byunspeed shipped my patriots out already so i should have them sometime early next week.. expect an update/new post of the install with pics. i cant wait to have my car run again.... 3 months of torture not having it be working. its been bad

madhatter

Yes I have love to hear myself talk. 170 post in nearly five years. Get a ******* life man.

I clearly recall two members on AZFBA dropping valves with Patriots and toasting their engines. They were LS1s, but Patriots still. God forbid I post something helpful.

LS1 SPEED

iTrader: (22)

Patriot Xtreme would be my suggestion as well

They are a great spring and the price you can't touch with anything else. I run them in my car and hundreds, maybe thousands of LSx cars with not 1 single issue.

JAKEJR

Interesting. A few months back i was doing some research on valve springs and when I checked out the Beehive I saw a "small print" caution to the effect of something like "Recommened for occasionally race use only". To me, 6700 is definitely "race use" even if you're NOT at the track.

Those springs were 26918s and I found the site, and that caution, using Google.

Just thought I'd pass this along.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

skip the patriot golds, they're junk. Run pac 1518s, the springs live forever with aggresive lobes. All you guys running into float have the springs installed too high, i had the same problem because i misread the PAC spec for coil bind. New set of springs and a 1.74 installed height and i'm spinning to 7k no problem.

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

Here I'll run my mouth, if you think you're getting a good quality american made dual spring for 270 bucks WITH titanium hardware, you're a moron. There's a reason you see PAC as probably the most popular valvespring in drag racing, and there's a reason patriot doesn't even try to tap into this market.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

Wicked have you ran Patriot Gold Extremes?

Having a hard time believing they're junk based on what you "say" when I look at Larrys post that "PROVES" otherwise. If anyone would be able to recognize a trend -good or bad- with an aftermarket part it would be spped inc. Thousands of cars running the patriots with zero issues is simply too much to dismiss.

I know you paid a lot more for your PACs and I'm not saying theyre a bad spring, or even that the Patriots are better. The 1518's are a badass spring for being able to do what they do in a single spring but that does not automatically make the Patriots "junk". I just dont see how you can say that, but whatever. I'll keep running and enjoying my "junk" $270 springs.


.02

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

i refuse to run them in my car for the same reason madhatter posted. Know too many people who ran into problems with them. From what I've heard they fatigue early when using very intense lobes. My pac 1518s were 230 bucks from speed inc, and the retainers are small enough that i can get away with running steel instead of expensive titanium. They're controlling my heavy 11/32 2.08 intake valve fine in my AFRs, with what i would call intense HR lobes. Not chancing my motor on chinese springs.

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

wow i never thought that this post would turn into such a good feud lol i respect everyones thoughts on this matter. i bought the patriots because i dont have that much money with it being the holidays and all. but i have never heard of any bad rep fromt he patriots except for in this post. to each there own. atleast i wont have a spring thatll snap like comp's 918's lol

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Again I ran the 918's, three busted in 20 miles.

I ran PAC 1218's. They floated but never broke for nearly a year.

I did not run 1518's but if I recall, its the same spring but its nitrited (spell check) so I will assume they would perform the same but obviously hold pressure longer. Two sets of 1218's were installed at 1.750" IIRC exactly as Lloyd and Brett suggested. Still floated.

Installed PSI (Nascar quality springs IIRC) LS1 beehives which were a bit stronger than the PAC's. They floated too.

Installed Manley (forgot the p/n) beehives and the float was gone but 5 were busted in two weeks. Manley claimed to have a bad batch similar to Comp.

Installed the Patriot Extremes, zero float and have been running strong for nearly two years.

Personally have seen loads of posts on many boards about busted beehives regardless of brand. I dont recall a single post on busted Patriots. Not saying there are not any, but I have not seen any. Maybe someone can produce them?

They may be Chinese junk, but the gov'ment is taking all my damn money.

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

agreed; i have never seen anything bad about the patriots. im not here to bash or anything tho. i just cant f#cking wait to have my car running right again after it being down for nearly 3 months!!!!!

James Montigny

iTrader: (13)

I run the patriots as well ... reasonable price, good quality and no problems so far.

JAKEJR

When I first read OP's post I recalled all the previous posts of failures posted by guys several months ago and since OP's failures were NEW, I decided to pass that info along to guys on a couple of other Forums who were either considering or running Beehives. As can be expected, it started a back and forth exchange. Not too heated, but definitely strong views both pro and con.

My intent was just to pass along the latest news on a Beehive failure, not to start a "my spring selection is better than your spring selection" type of exchange. I did it just for informational purposes and I tried to make that clear. I think reading comprehension, personal bias and the knee-jerk need to defend one's purchase of Beehives played a part.

Some assumed they were from original batch offering, but I reminded them that, at first, it was thought to be only a bad batch or two, but as it turned out there were many batches involved in failures. IIRC, one Forum member (forgot which Forum since I visit so many) was compiling a list all the batch numbers involved and it seemed to be getting lengthy. Suopposedly, the problem(s) have been corrected now.

I'm wondering from what batch the OP's springs came from - original or newer. Are they from the batch of supposedly corrected springs? Knowing that would be important to others considering buying them.

Maybe it was a bad batch of wire from which several spring batches were made, I don't know, but however it came about, it certainly speaks to the failure of quality control in their manufacture.

Also, I don't if Comp winds their springs from material bought from a separate supplier or whether they buy them already wound. Anybody know?

Personally, I'm not a fan for single springs in performance applications, but for those who like them I say: to each his own, mine's just a personal preference thing. I do recall that in the most recent LT1 cylinder head shoot-out done by GM High Tech Performance mag, all the heads, except Edelbrock's, were tested with dual springs. IIRC, no mention was made of the brand, etc., of specific springs being run though. In spite of that, there's no proof of how well any of the those springs would hold up over repeated high RPM use.

The springs on the new Dart Pro 1s I bought for my son's 96 Vette came with doubles with a damper and I'm running Crane duals on my 96 Vette.

I do know that LE highly recommends Golds and from what I've read, PACs seem to have a good rep. As with all springs, they must be set up correctly and total valve train weight is definitely something to be factored in, especially if the springs are being called on for regular high RPM use. So let's all agree to keep the revs under 3 grand and all of our springs will live forever.

When I use to build 8 second quarter mile BB engines, springs were considered an expendable item, even with the triples we ran.

As with most things, I don't believe there's ever going to be universal agreement on this issue but I believe the exchange of information and views is helpful. The more feed-back we have the better, more informed choices we can make.

Just my thoughts.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!