Cam and supporting mods question!
12-14-2009, 01:01 PM
#1
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Cam and supporting mods question! alright well i ended up spinning a rod bearing in my 170k motor and now i plan on buying another motor... a guy about 10 miles from my house has an lt1 with under 50k miles on it that he is wanting to sell, and i figured if i bought that motor and kept mine i could have another motor to eventually build up to what i really want after i graduate college, but still have a motor in my car that makes enough power right now to keep me happy and also get me back and forth to school.... so here are my questions
first of all, i am looking for a cam that i can still daily drive and that i dont have to spin to the moon to make power, can be used on stock heads or maybe mildly ported heads, and i still want it to be at least somewhat noticeable that it has a cam... i like the way the lt4 hotcam sounds even, but i know i probably won't be happy with buying the whole kit and it sounds like the valve springs aren't even really compatible with lt1 valves anyway... the only thing is, i'm sort of on a budget on this whole deal, but i don't know if it is really worth cutting cost on NSA vs SA rockers and cheaper valve springs.... i dont want to necessarily cut any corners, but i do want to cut down on costs in the safest but yet the most bang for the buck way... if i could throw together a kit for around 800 i would def. be happy, and it sounds like that is pretty easily done
so if you guys don't care to help me out with this part, maybe even adding part numbers if you can get them, please let me know
also, since this motor will already be out of the car, what else would you guys look into freshening up before the motor goes into the car?
thanks!
first of all, i am looking for a cam that i can still daily drive and that i dont have to spin to the moon to make power, can be used on stock heads or maybe mildly ported heads, and i still want it to be at least somewhat noticeable that it has a cam... i like the way the lt4 hotcam sounds even, but i know i probably won't be happy with buying the whole kit and it sounds like the valve springs aren't even really compatible with lt1 valves anyway... the only thing is, i'm sort of on a budget on this whole deal, but i don't know if it is really worth cutting cost on NSA vs SA rockers and cheaper valve springs.... i dont want to necessarily cut any corners, but i do want to cut down on costs in the safest but yet the most bang for the buck way... if i could throw together a kit for around 800 i would def. be happy, and it sounds like that is pretty easily done
so if you guys don't care to help me out with this part, maybe even adding part numbers if you can get them, please let me know
also, since this motor will already be out of the car, what else would you guys look into freshening up before the motor goes into the car?
thanks!
Last edited by squeals99; 12-14-2009 at 01:10 PM.
12-14-2009, 01:44 PM
#4
You could do things for reasonably cheap if you shop around for the best prices. Also, the cc503 as mentioned seems like it would fit your bill nicely. I ran SA 1.6's with the cc503 and that was fine but I am a fan of NSA personally. However, going NSA is alot more expensive with the addition of guideplates, studs, etc. One thing that is very important that we do not know is whether the car is auto or manual?
cc503: $230
Crane 10308-1 Springs: $140-160 if you can find them
Comp SA Magnum 1.6's or something similar: <$200
Trick Flow Hardened Chromemoly Pushrods: $87
Gaskets: $100+
GM Valve Stem Seal: $20ish
GM Timing Chain: <$50
GM LS7 Lifters: $125 (I wouldn't reuse your stock 170k lifters but if the motor your buying comes with original lifters and they still spin freely you could reuse them)
That would give you a solid setup, not the best out there but certainly not bad. I ran that particular setup in my car when it was a DD and it performed well on and off the track for me.
cc503: $230
Crane 10308-1 Springs: $140-160 if you can find them
Comp SA Magnum 1.6's or something similar: <$200
Trick Flow Hardened Chromemoly Pushrods: $87
Gaskets: $100+
GM Valve Stem Seal: $20ish
GM Timing Chain: <$50
GM LS7 Lifters: $125 (I wouldn't reuse your stock 170k lifters but if the motor your buying comes with original lifters and they still spin freely you could reuse them)
That would give you a solid setup, not the best out there but certainly not bad. I ran that particular setup in my car when it was a DD and it performed well on and off the track for me.
12-14-2009, 02:21 PM
#5
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yeah its an auto car... sorry i thought i had that in my sig lol
but the trans is a jasper rebuilt and i actually had an appointment for today for it to go in the shop because i started having shifting issues, but my trans guy is my neighbor and he said more than likely he would be able to get me a totally new unit from them so i feel safe about the internals... and the motor i am gonna get has less than 50k on it, so i have a good feeling the lifters will be in good shape and the chain probably should be also but not sure, although i may throw another one on it just to make sure since its not too big of a purchase for the insurance...
also, i searched all over the place for those springs and the only style on jegs and summit that came up said they were for ls based motors...
also, i plan on putting a new torque converter in it sometime, just not like RIGHT now... probably within a year or so i'll put a mild one in it, but i'm not worried about it having like stock manners on the street, but i dont want it stalling at every light
will stock injectors be alright with just a mild build like this? or should i look into a little bit bigger ones?
but the trans is a jasper rebuilt and i actually had an appointment for today for it to go in the shop because i started having shifting issues, but my trans guy is my neighbor and he said more than likely he would be able to get me a totally new unit from them so i feel safe about the internals... and the motor i am gonna get has less than 50k on it, so i have a good feeling the lifters will be in good shape and the chain probably should be also but not sure, although i may throw another one on it just to make sure since its not too big of a purchase for the insurance...
also, i searched all over the place for those springs and the only style on jegs and summit that came up said they were for ls based motors...
also, i plan on putting a new torque converter in it sometime, just not like RIGHT now... probably within a year or so i'll put a mild one in it, but i'm not worried about it having like stock manners on the street, but i dont want it stalling at every light
will stock injectors be alright with just a mild build like this? or should i look into a little bit bigger ones?
12-14-2009, 02:39 PM
#6
I ran the cc503 with the stock converter for awhile and that was a mistake. Pulled the brakes at stop lights, surged a bit and basically just was a pain. Only the small cams work ok with stock converters. The correct way to do things is to put a nice stall in the car then get a cam that matches it. But if your willing to put up with it for awhile you can do it anyway you want.
I ran stock injectors and the stock pump and was good to go.
I would just grad a new chain because it's possible that the chain has some slack and for the cost it's worth doing.
Dunno why it says the springs are for LS1's but they work and are used by many in LT1's.
I ran stock injectors and the stock pump and was good to go.
I would just grad a new chain because it's possible that the chain has some slack and for the cost it's worth doing.
Dunno why it says the springs are for LS1's but they work and are used by many in LT1's.
12-15-2009, 12:12 AM
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well just got done looking at the motor... and while i was at the guy's house and found out a lot more **** about it lol
he told me he had a ton of interior stuff from it because its a long story, but in like 2000 a guy had this car and let someone test drive it and the owner didn't have insurance on the car and the guy test driving the car wrecked the car and ran basically, so the owner ended up putting the full interior and motor and trans in a 69 firebird.... the owner now bought the car from that guy and is now turning that car into a 69 camaro and didn't want the lt1... and so he is giving me all the interior parts from it, and we went into his attic and looked at all the interior parts off of the car, and the motor and trans only have 27k on it judging by the cluster that was in it.... and the guy that put the lt1 in the firebird never actually got all the wiring correct to get the car to totally run right in the 69... and i also have the glove box from the wrecked car with the vin in it and the production codes and everything, so i may do a check on that just to see if anything was documented on it, but its def. a legit story cuz the guy has pictures of the wrecked car and the car it went into and everything else.... but the only spot the motor has an oil leak is at the dipstick and it was just a very minute leak.... so i'd say i'm getting a hell of a deal on this motor because it comes with pcm and everything and i can def. part most of it out that i don't need....
and actually i just found those crane springs, but on jegs they go for $200 and they are out of stock and don't know when they will ever have them again... so any other options?
what about a part number for some SA rockers?
he told me he had a ton of interior stuff from it because its a long story, but in like 2000 a guy had this car and let someone test drive it and the owner didn't have insurance on the car and the guy test driving the car wrecked the car and ran basically, so the owner ended up putting the full interior and motor and trans in a 69 firebird.... the owner now bought the car from that guy and is now turning that car into a 69 camaro and didn't want the lt1... and so he is giving me all the interior parts from it, and we went into his attic and looked at all the interior parts off of the car, and the motor and trans only have 27k on it judging by the cluster that was in it.... and the guy that put the lt1 in the firebird never actually got all the wiring correct to get the car to totally run right in the 69... and i also have the glove box from the wrecked car with the vin in it and the production codes and everything, so i may do a check on that just to see if anything was documented on it, but its def. a legit story cuz the guy has pictures of the wrecked car and the car it went into and everything else.... but the only spot the motor has an oil leak is at the dipstick and it was just a very minute leak.... so i'd say i'm getting a hell of a deal on this motor because it comes with pcm and everything and i can def. part most of it out that i don't need....
and actually i just found those crane springs, but on jegs they go for $200 and they are out of stock and don't know when they will ever have them again... so any other options?
what about a part number for some SA rockers?
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12-15-2009, 03:39 AM
#9
Originally Posted by StealthFormula
However, going NSA is alot more expensive with the addition of guideplates, studs, etc.
Studs arent necessary, and you already have him buying hardened pushrods in that list...
Saying going NSA under those circumstances is absolutely false...
12-15-2009, 10:21 AM
#10
They are a single wire spring with 140 lbs seat pressure & 370 Lbs open pressure.
12-15-2009, 01:46 PM
#11
I'm factoring in the price for studs, guideplates, and how typically the NSA Rockers are more money atleast in my ventures. I have ran both and personally only with run NSA but that doesn't mean SA will work for some people who want to keep things under a strict budget. BTW I recommended the "Hardened Pushrods" because he says in his original post that he may be running some ported heads. Typically people mill the heads and run thinner head gaskets when they have ported heads aka the pushrod length is different aka why he will more than likely need new length pushrods. Might as well get hardened when your at it.
12-15-2009, 02:00 PM
#12
cc503: $230
Crane 10308-1 Springs: $140-160 if you can find them
Comp SA Magnum 1.6's or something similar: <$200
Trick Flow Hardened Chromemoly Pushrods: $87
Gaskets: $100+
GM Valve Stem Seal: $20ish
GM Timing Chain: <$50
GM LS7 Lifters: $125 (I wouldn't reuse your stock 170k lifters but if the motor your buying comes with original lifters and they still spin freely you could reuse them)
Crane 10308-1 Springs: $140-160 if you can find them
Comp SA Magnum 1.6's or something similar: <$200
Trick Flow Hardened Chromemoly Pushrods: $87
Gaskets: $100+
GM Valve Stem Seal: $20ish
GM Timing Chain: <$50
GM LS7 Lifters: $125 (I wouldn't reuse your stock 170k lifters but if the motor your buying comes with original lifters and they still spin freely you could reuse them)
SA vs NSA is a debate all in itself.
12-15-2009, 07:34 PM
#14
and actually i just found those crane springs, but on jegs they go for $200 and they are out of stock and don't know when they will ever have them again... so any other options?
what about a part number for some SA rockers?[/QUOTE]
Yeah sorry about that I just bought the last set that jegs had last week. The guy I talked to said crane is out of buisness so thats prob the last set they will get. Sorry. Im doing the same thing with the CC503 cam and all that stuff.
You might try and google the part number and see if any vendors have any in stock at some other places. Just a thought.
what about a part number for some SA rockers?[/QUOTE]
Yeah sorry about that I just bought the last set that jegs had last week. The guy I talked to said crane is out of buisness so thats prob the last set they will get. Sorry. Im doing the same thing with the CC503 cam and all that stuff.
You might try and google the part number and see if any vendors have any in stock at some other places. Just a thought.
12-15-2009, 09:20 PM
#15
I am pretty much going with this same setup. Used cc503, new 10308-1, new Comp SA Magnums, LS7 lifters, Cloye's chain, and a ton of gaskets. I didn't buy the pushrods yet but will most likely get whatever is hardened and local. It'll be matched with a 4000ish stall.
SA vs NSA is a debate all in itself.
SA vs NSA is a debate all in itself.
12-15-2009, 11:03 PM
#16
NSA essentially prevents the rocker from slipping off the valve tip like an SA rocker could. I've ran SA rockers up to ~6600rpm without ever having an issue but others have had some issues. In my opinion SA's are fine for someone on a budget and keeping rpm's in the low 6000's and under. With my car hitting 6400rpm regularly I run NSA's for peace of mind.
12-15-2009, 11:35 PM
#17
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you sure you wanna run the cc503 on a stock converter even if it's for a short period of time? Granted it is a really nice off the shelf cam but IMO it's a bit too much for the stock converter. I'm running a LPE 219/219 .560 lift cam (I know I know I should've gone with the 211/219...) on a stock converter and even it could use a 3200-3600 stall.
Also you could save some money by grabbing a set of used RR's..I picked up a set of 1.6 Crane Gold RR's with low miles on them for $150 from a member on here.
Also you could save some money by grabbing a set of used RR's..I picked up a set of 1.6 Crane Gold RR's with low miles on them for $150 from a member on here.
12-16-2009, 02:37 AM
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i dunno... the more and more i think about it the more i want to go with a lighter setup... like the (flame suit on!) hot cam kit with some different valve springs...
i mean with me being in college and commuting and only working on my days off, i just dont know if i will actually be able to keep throwing money at it just to make it run right when i can just put a small cam in it and be happy with a small gain and still have a car that i can drive back and forth to school without any problems... and i mean ill have my other motor that i can put money into once i get an actual job that makes money...
i mean im not trying to build an 11 second car... just something that is different and not your average stock lt1... i wouldnt mind the cam surge and all that good stuff that comes with it, but i mean this is basically my daily driver and sometimes even have to drive it in snow... and i know that sure as hell wouldnt be a fun ride
and im sure ill still have the problems of the surging with the hotcam even, but it wont be as bad i wouldnt figure.... and for the budget i don't see it hurting anything
i mean heck if i went with the hotcam kit and got some springs that i can reuse the locks and retainers on (like those vs2700 springs) i could kinda do a good enough for now stall converter and just buy a performabuilt one or something like that...
i mean with me being in college and commuting and only working on my days off, i just dont know if i will actually be able to keep throwing money at it just to make it run right when i can just put a small cam in it and be happy with a small gain and still have a car that i can drive back and forth to school without any problems... and i mean ill have my other motor that i can put money into once i get an actual job that makes money...
i mean im not trying to build an 11 second car... just something that is different and not your average stock lt1... i wouldnt mind the cam surge and all that good stuff that comes with it, but i mean this is basically my daily driver and sometimes even have to drive it in snow... and i know that sure as hell wouldnt be a fun ride
and im sure ill still have the problems of the surging with the hotcam even, but it wont be as bad i wouldnt figure.... and for the budget i don't see it hurting anything
i mean heck if i went with the hotcam kit and got some springs that i can reuse the locks and retainers on (like those vs2700 springs) i could kinda do a good enough for now stall converter and just buy a performabuilt one or something like that...
Last edited by squeals99; 12-16-2009 at 04:26 AM.
12-16-2009, 12:16 PM
#19
i dunno... the more and more i think about it the more i want to go with a lighter setup... like the (flame suit on!) hot cam kit with some different valve springs...
i mean with me being in college and commuting and only working on my days off, i just dont know if i will actually be able to keep throwing money at it just to make it run right when i can just put a small cam in it and be happy with a small gain and still have a car that i can drive back and forth to school without any problems... and i mean ill have my other motor that i can put money into once i get an actual job that makes money...
i mean im not trying to build an 11 second car... just something that is different and not your average stock lt1... i wouldnt mind the cam surge and all that good stuff that comes with it, but i mean this is basically my daily driver and sometimes even have to drive it in snow... and i know that sure as hell wouldnt be a fun ride
and im sure ill still have the problems of the surging with the hotcam even, but it wont be as bad i wouldnt figure.... and for the budget i don't see it hurting anything
i mean heck if i went with the hotcam kit and got some springs that i can reuse the locks and retainers on (like those vs2700 springs) i could kinda do a good enough for now stall converter and just buy a performabuilt one or something like that...
i mean with me being in college and commuting and only working on my days off, i just dont know if i will actually be able to keep throwing money at it just to make it run right when i can just put a small cam in it and be happy with a small gain and still have a car that i can drive back and forth to school without any problems... and i mean ill have my other motor that i can put money into once i get an actual job that makes money...
i mean im not trying to build an 11 second car... just something that is different and not your average stock lt1... i wouldnt mind the cam surge and all that good stuff that comes with it, but i mean this is basically my daily driver and sometimes even have to drive it in snow... and i know that sure as hell wouldnt be a fun ride
and im sure ill still have the problems of the surging with the hotcam even, but it wont be as bad i wouldnt figure.... and for the budget i don't see it hurting anything
i mean heck if i went with the hotcam kit and got some springs that i can reuse the locks and retainers on (like those vs2700 springs) i could kinda do a good enough for now stall converter and just buy a performabuilt one or something like that...
12-18-2009, 11:34 AM
#20
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is this an absolutely horrible idea for my goals though?
i mean i dont care if i make x amount or power, its just my daily driver anyway right now, and with driving (depending on my schedule for next semester) every day back and forth 45 minutes one way to school and then anywhere else i have to go... including driving in the snow sometimes and shitty weather... i don't see this being that terrible of an idea...
i dont know... steer me the other way if i am totally messing up, but i didn't mind the power my 170k mile motor with just boltons was making before it took a **** on me... hell i raced a totally stock ls1 before this happened and held it off by about 3 cars to 100... so i mean i'm totally happy with that... not looking for the world beater, just something that sounds aggressive but can still be streetable with hiccups every once in a while
i mean i dont care if i make x amount or power, its just my daily driver anyway right now, and with driving (depending on my schedule for next semester) every day back and forth 45 minutes one way to school and then anywhere else i have to go... including driving in the snow sometimes and shitty weather... i don't see this being that terrible of an idea...
i dont know... steer me the other way if i am totally messing up, but i didn't mind the power my 170k mile motor with just boltons was making before it took a **** on me... hell i raced a totally stock ls1 before this happened and held it off by about 3 cars to 100... so i mean i'm totally happy with that... not looking for the world beater, just something that sounds aggressive but can still be streetable with hiccups every once in a while