Help with rocker studs
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Help with rocker studs Hi guys
I bought my son a 96 TA, the owner told
me that if I run it hard that the rocker studs
would back out of the heads.
So on the way home I put my foot in it and sure enough
1 rocker started making noise.
The motor had a few oil leaks so I pulled the motor and stripped it down to the short block and replaced every gasket and seal.
I pulled all the studs in the heads, cleaned the holes with
carb cleaner, cleaned the studs, blowed the holes out with shop air and put red Locktite on the studs and torqued them down.
My wife drove the car to town the other day and called me and said the car was shaking.
The motor had a dead miss on #3 CYL.
The intake stud had backed out and the push rod had come off the rocker.
The guy I bought it from said that it had been a problem
the whole time he owned the car.
All the heily coils are in good shape and all the studs
are in good shape.
This is not a hot rod, it is bone stock with all the cats
and stock muffler.
What can I do to keep this from happening?
Chris
I bought my son a 96 TA, the owner told
me that if I run it hard that the rocker studs
would back out of the heads.
So on the way home I put my foot in it and sure enough
1 rocker started making noise.
The motor had a few oil leaks so I pulled the motor and stripped it down to the short block and replaced every gasket and seal.
I pulled all the studs in the heads, cleaned the holes with
carb cleaner, cleaned the studs, blowed the holes out with shop air and put red Locktite on the studs and torqued them down.
My wife drove the car to town the other day and called me and said the car was shaking.
The motor had a dead miss on #3 CYL.
The intake stud had backed out and the push rod had come off the rocker.
The guy I bought it from said that it had been a problem
the whole time he owned the car.
All the heily coils are in good shape and all the studs
are in good shape.
This is not a hot rod, it is bone stock with all the cats
and stock muffler.
What can I do to keep this from happening?
Chris
are they screw in studs? It sounds as though they were done with the wrong size tap. I'd start doing some asking, since factory are pressed in studs. If you're pulling the pressed studs out, then look into getting screw-ins. Hopefully things will work out for you.
They are screw-in studs on the aluminum heads, press-in on the iron.
Very odd that the stud keeps backing out. Also, you need to use thread sealant on the studs. You might want to look into picking up some ARP studs and seeing if that does the trick.
Very odd that the stud keeps backing out. Also, you need to use thread sealant on the studs. You might want to look into picking up some ARP studs and seeing if that does the trick.
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 1
From: CT/NJ
Guys, if he wants to suck all his oil in thru the rocker stud threads, who cares?
He sounds like the guy I used to work next to at one of the dealerships, thought he could set valve lash with an impact gun and nobody could tell him different, even though every single one came back with 1 or more studs pulled out...
He sounds like the guy I used to work next to at one of the dealerships, thought he could set valve lash with an impact gun and nobody could tell him different, even though every single one came back with 1 or more studs pulled out...
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Look guys I’m no rooky.
When you have a stud that has a flange built
into the bottom of the hex and it seats flat on the stud boss it seals the stud to the hole it will not leak.
Now if you have slotted guide plates there will be a portion of the slot exposed and the oil will puddle in the slot under the head of the stud and it will be sucked thru the threads into the runner, sealant is need for these.
The lash is set to ½ turn past zero lash.
The stud is not being pulled out of the head.
It is working it self loose and un screwing it’s
self out of the head.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’ve been around
SBC’s for a long time and this shouldn’t be happening
on a bone stock daily driver.
I’m posting in here to see if any one has run into this before.
Chris
When you have a stud that has a flange built
into the bottom of the hex and it seats flat on the stud boss it seals the stud to the hole it will not leak.
Now if you have slotted guide plates there will be a portion of the slot exposed and the oil will puddle in the slot under the head of the stud and it will be sucked thru the threads into the runner, sealant is need for these.
The lash is set to ½ turn past zero lash.
The stud is not being pulled out of the head.
It is working it self loose and un screwing it’s
self out of the head.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’ve been around
SBC’s for a long time and this shouldn’t be happening
on a bone stock daily driver.
I’m posting in here to see if any one has run into this before.
Chris
Look guys I’m no rooky.
When you have a stud that has a flange built
into the bottom of the hex and it seats flat on the stud boss it seals the stud to the hole it will not leak.
Now if you have slotted guide plates there will be a portion of the slot exposed and the oil will puddle in the slot under the head of the stud and it will be sucked thru the threads into the runner, sealant is need for these.
The lash is set to ½ turn past zero lash.
The stud is not being pulled out of the head.
It is working it self loose and un screwing it’s
self out of the head.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’ve been around
SBC’s for a long time and this shouldn’t be happening
on a bone stock daily driver.
I’m posting in here to see if any one has run into this before.
Chris
When you have a stud that has a flange built
into the bottom of the hex and it seats flat on the stud boss it seals the stud to the hole it will not leak.
Now if you have slotted guide plates there will be a portion of the slot exposed and the oil will puddle in the slot under the head of the stud and it will be sucked thru the threads into the runner, sealant is need for these.
The lash is set to ½ turn past zero lash.
The stud is not being pulled out of the head.
It is working it self loose and un screwing it’s
self out of the head.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’ve been around
SBC’s for a long time and this shouldn’t be happening
on a bone stock daily driver.
I’m posting in here to see if any one has run into this before.
Chris
And honestly, if the stud keeps working its way loose, you're perfect interference fit isn't so perfect, is it?
JMHO.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Woodlawn IL
This thread got me to thinking I might be crazy so I went out to the shop and pulled some rocker studs. I have 4 sets of LT1 heads that are Bone stock they are all off of 95 Model Year Camaros and Firebirds. I pulled several rocker studs out and NONE of them go into the port on either the intake or exhaust. So if you guys have a 95 MY LT1 that is sucking oil into the intake port through the rocker stud threads you might want to check and see if there is a bigger issue at hand (like a cracked head in the intake port very unlikely but if your sucking oil there must me somthing amiss)
Now to the OP question.
If the studs were put in too tight or somwhere along the line somebody got a little to aggresive with a tap cleaning the threads they may be worn and allowing the stud to rock a little. If this is whats happening you can put all the locktite in the world on them and they will eventually come loose.
I would start with a brand new set of rocker studs I use ARP and they have never let me down. If that does not take care of it you are going to have to either replace the heli coils or replace the heads all together.
Take care
Rob
Now to the OP question.
If the studs were put in too tight or somwhere along the line somebody got a little to aggresive with a tap cleaning the threads they may be worn and allowing the stud to rock a little. If this is whats happening you can put all the locktite in the world on them and they will eventually come loose.
I would start with a brand new set of rocker studs I use ARP and they have never let me down. If that does not take care of it you are going to have to either replace the heli coils or replace the heads all together.
Take care
Rob
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Elwood,il
This thread got me to thinking I might be crazy so I went out to the shop and pulled some rocker studs. I have 4 sets of LT1 heads that are Bone stock they are all off of 95 Model Year Camaros and Firebirds. I pulled several rocker studs out and NONE of them go into the port on either the intake or exhaust. So if you guys have a 95 MY LT1 that is sucking oil into the intake port through the rocker stud threads you might want to check and see if there is a bigger issue at hand (like a cracked head in the intake port very unlikely but if your sucking oil there must me somthing amiss)
Now to the OP question.
If the studs were put in too tight or somwhere along the line somebody got a little to aggresive with a tap cleaning the threads they may be worn and allowing the stud to rock a little. If this is whats happening you can put all the locktite in the world on them and they will eventually come loose.
I would start with a brand new set of rocker studs I use ARP and they have never let me down. If that does not take care of it you are going to have to either replace the heli coils or replace the heads all together.
Take care
Rob
Now to the OP question.
If the studs were put in too tight or somwhere along the line somebody got a little to aggresive with a tap cleaning the threads they may be worn and allowing the stud to rock a little. If this is whats happening you can put all the locktite in the world on them and they will eventually come loose.
I would start with a brand new set of rocker studs I use ARP and they have never let me down. If that does not take care of it you are going to have to either replace the heli coils or replace the heads all together.
Take care
Rob
The rocker stud hole is only a problem on cleaned-up or ported heads, where the rocker stud hole is easily seen. On stock castings though it is rare. Either way, you don't want oil leaking into the rocker stud. Thread engagement is fairly minimal (only about 8 threads of engagement) and adding lubricant is never a good idea. Here's a picture of my heads where the hole is visible (top left):
I suggest starting with a new set of rocker studs (or at least just replacing the one problematic one, adding some thread sealant per GM spec.).
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,145
Likes: 61
From: Little Rock, AR
This thread got me to thinking I might be crazy so I went out to the shop and pulled some rocker studs. I have 4 sets of LT1 heads that are Bone stock they are all off of 95 Model Year Camaros and Firebirds. I pulled several rocker studs out and NONE of them go into the port on either the intake or exhaust.
For the OP, I find it very strange that factory studs would back out. Perhaps they need to be redrilled/helicoiled. I suspect that the original owner may have known more about the situation than he let on.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Woodlawn IL
Ramair95ta
Did you fill the bottom of the rocker stud hole back in form inside the port to smooth the top of the port back out? If not next time you have these heads on a flow bench try it I think you will like what it does for your flow numbers. Reher Morrison sells some nice epoxy to do this.
Did you fill the bottom of the rocker stud hole back in form inside the port to smooth the top of the port back out? If not next time you have these heads on a flow bench try it I think you will like what it does for your flow numbers. Reher Morrison sells some nice epoxy to do this.
Ramair95ta
Did you fill the bottom of the rocker stud hole back in form inside the port to smooth the top of the port back out? If not next time you have these heads on a flow bench try it I think you will like what it does for your flow numbers. Reher Morrison sells some nice epoxy to do this.
Did you fill the bottom of the rocker stud hole back in form inside the port to smooth the top of the port back out? If not next time you have these heads on a flow bench try it I think you will like what it does for your flow numbers. Reher Morrison sells some nice epoxy to do this.
That's what I thought, too (the factory holes are blind), but I did not have a head to go out and verify. The only time I have heard of any leakage is when someone ports them too far and breaks into the bottom of the stud hole.
For the OP, I find it very strange that factory studs would back out. Perhaps they need to be redrilled/helicoiled. I suspect that the original owner may have known more about the situation than he let on.
For the OP, I find it very strange that factory studs would back out. Perhaps they need to be redrilled/helicoiled. I suspect that the original owner may have known more about the situation than he let on.
I agree!
I've had 3 different sets of studs in my '96 LT1 heads....the OEs, and both the long and short ARPs, when I used two different styles of poly locks. Never did I have any problem with them backing out. Torque spec for the studs to the heads, BTW, is 50 ft/lbs.