Does YOUR Clutch Setup need a Shim?
09-09-2010, 08:04 PM
#121
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Sorry, switched it to a thumbnail.
I wasn't sure if I was seeing brake fluid coming from the bellhousing, or if I still had residue from an oil leak I had so I pulled the trans to check out the slave. I haven't had my brake reservoir going down, so I was pretty sure it wasn't a leak, but wanted to be sure.
The main thing I just need to know is how far the slave needs to be pushed in for an accurate measurement for the shim.
09-09-2010, 08:22 PM
#122
just push the slave down as far as it will go by hand because that is what it will act like when its intalled. Its not necessary to remove the spring to try and bottom out the slave for measurement like earlier in this thread states. Some slaves do not bottom out to the base and that is fine its just the way they are designed.
rx7's have to use and adapter fitting or custom hybrid line to adapt from aftermarket clutch master cylinders to the t56 tranny line so make sure your line was made good with no leaks.
rx7's have to use and adapter fitting or custom hybrid line to adapt from aftermarket clutch master cylinders to the t56 tranny line so make sure your line was made good with no leaks.
09-09-2010, 08:46 PM
#123
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just push the slave down as far as it will go by hand because that is what it will act like when its intalled. Its not necessary to remove the spring to try and bottom out the slave for measurement like earlier in this thread states. Some slaves do not bottom out to the base and that is fine its just the way they are designed.
rx7's have to use and adapter fitting or custom hybrid line to adapt from aftermarket clutch master cylinders to the t56 tranny line so make sure your line was made good with no leaks.
rx7's have to use and adapter fitting or custom hybrid line to adapt from aftermarket clutch master cylinders to the t56 tranny line so make sure your line was made good with no leaks.
The line is good with no leaks. I didn't remove the spring either, it would be easier to measure without it but I didn't want to disassemble the slave at all.
09-10-2010, 10:18 AM
#125
The bearing must be fully seated at the bottom of it's travel wherever that point may be. If all it travels is to within 1/4" of the base then that is how far it will travel when installed. You can't falesly add a 1/4" of travel into your measurement when in fact in reality it doesn't travel that far.
I think the slaves are just designed differently, maybe one has a thicker base then the other so the bearing will bottom out to one of the bases with one style but not the other. However the travel on both designs is the same.
I've seen both designs and they both worked, my ACT clutch needed no shim with both types of slaves I've used. One bottomed out to the base and one didn't but I measured both and neither required a shim.
I think the slaves are just designed differently, maybe one has a thicker base then the other so the bearing will bottom out to one of the bases with one style but not the other. However the travel on both designs is the same.
I've seen both designs and they both worked, my ACT clutch needed no shim with both types of slaves I've used. One bottomed out to the base and one didn't but I measured both and neither required a shim.
09-13-2010, 10:26 AM
#126
The clutch "self/auto" adjusts to the appropriate range over its life. I would assume the clamping force would vary across the adjustment range depicted due to the geometry changes, which if installing a shim with this clutch, then "would" alter the clamping force from its original design. My guess is the engineers did a pretty good job at keeping the clamping force consistent enough to not be an issue over the clutch life span with the power ratings the clutch is designed for, again just my guess. I don't have the means to measure the clamping force at both extremes to know for sure.
The clutch is self-adjusting and from my understanding of how it works, (the link below and in my original post), the adjustment is set the little yellow springs fully compressed. Then once installed and the clutch pedal is fully pressed, the adjusters adjust themselves to the "proper" dimension, "automatically" for the given disc thickness. As the disc wears, the adjusters keep adjusting.
http://paceperformance.com/files/pdf/zo6clutchadj.pdf
From the same position as outlined in the first post of this thread.
I did take note of all three of my slaves, 1 new, 2 used, all are different, 2 are plastic, one metal. I recall alll were within approx .010" of each other fully compressed, (thickness of the seal will affect fully compressed height), and fully open, again within .010"-.020", which is dependent on the retaining clip that keeps the piston together.
Hope that helps,
Paul
http://paceperformance.com/files/pdf/zo6clutchadj.pdf
Hope that helps,
Paul
Last edited by BRAAPZ; 11-01-2010 at 10:55 AM.
10-28-2010, 09:44 AM
#128
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The link did not work. I found the instructions here:
http://paceperformance.com/files/pdf/zo6clutchadj.pdf
http://paceperformance.com/files/pdf/zo6clutchadj.pdf
12-06-2010, 12:34 AM
#129
how do I go about getting a set of shims I am thinking 1/8" and 2 1/16" shims just incase won't know till I measure it all up. I would prefer to get them through summit if I can?
01-15-2011, 01:51 AM
#133
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I've got shims CNC laser cut out of T3 aluminum. 0.125in for $10.00ea and .050in shims for $7.00ea
The .050's are great to use when using a re-surfaced flywheel
The .050's are great to use when using a re-surfaced flywheel
03-02-2011, 09:54 PM
#135
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I had a stage 3 with no shim for 5 years no problem with clutch. I installed a SPEC stage 2+ this weekend, new slave, new flywheel. I measured both "a" and "b" had 1/16th diff. So I opted not to put in the shim. Now my pedal is near the floor after bleeding the system. It is hard shifting and will not go in reverse. If you start the car in gear it will creep forward, obviously the clutch is not fully disengaging. I will pull it this week and put in the shim. Even when measureing you may still need to shim. If you are having problems getting the car in gear, after you have bled the clutch you may have to shim it for proper engagement even if your measurements were in tolerance.
04-25-2011, 12:34 AM
#136
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Symptom of needing shim ? This seemed the best thread to post on .
For someone who has put everything back togeather and then comes across this thread . . . Lol
What are the synptoms of needing a shim ? I have new PP , clutch flywheel , throw out bearing combo , and a Ram slave cylinder , have done the drill mod .
Bleed system many times , home and had a shop do it . The pedal is very solid , I have pedal pressure almost immediately .
The car creeps in gear with the clutch in and it grinds into all gears with the engine running , With the engine off it goes into the gears correctly .
My conclusion is that the slave is not pushing the throwout bearing in far enough to disengage the clutch . And yes the clutch manafacture says not to use a shim .
Anyone agree or disagree ?
For someone who has put everything back togeather and then comes across this thread . . . Lol
What are the synptoms of needing a shim ? I have new PP , clutch flywheel , throw out bearing combo , and a Ram slave cylinder , have done the drill mod .
Bleed system many times , home and had a shop do it . The pedal is very solid , I have pedal pressure almost immediately .
The car creeps in gear with the clutch in and it grinds into all gears with the engine running , With the engine off it goes into the gears correctly .
My conclusion is that the slave is not pushing the throwout bearing in far enough to disengage the clutch . And yes the clutch manafacture says not to use a shim .
Anyone agree or disagree ?
04-25-2011, 02:10 AM
#137
This seemed the best thread to post on .
For someone who has put everything back togeather and then comes across this thread . . . Lol
What are the synptoms of needing a shim ? I have new PP , clutch flywheel , throw out bearing combo , and a Ram slave cylinder , have done the drill mod .
Bleed system many times , home and had a shop do it . The pedal is very solid , I have pedal pressure almost immediately .
The car creeps in gear with the clutch in and it grinds into all gears with the engine running , With the engine off it goes into the gears correctly .
My conclusion is that the slave is not pushing the throwout bearing in far enough to disengage the clutch . And yes the clutch manafacture says not to use a shim .
Anyone agree or disagree ?
For someone who has put everything back togeather and then comes across this thread . . . Lol
What are the synptoms of needing a shim ? I have new PP , clutch flywheel , throw out bearing combo , and a Ram slave cylinder , have done the drill mod .
Bleed system many times , home and had a shop do it . The pedal is very solid , I have pedal pressure almost immediately .
The car creeps in gear with the clutch in and it grinds into all gears with the engine running , With the engine off it goes into the gears correctly .
My conclusion is that the slave is not pushing the throwout bearing in far enough to disengage the clutch . And yes the clutch manafacture says not to use a shim .
Anyone agree or disagree ?
-do the wheels stop soon? or keep turning, they should eventually stop completely.
-if they keep turning then, you got to get more pedal travel adjustable slave or time to shim, I have 1/16" air gap works good.
also proper oil in trans? should be dexron 3 or 4 tranny fluid if I recall, do not use, gear oil, that would definitely, cause grinding?
