c4hybrid2007

Guys just got my first manual car last week and will start driving it this week. Took out the z28 today and did pretty well. Didnt kill the car at all but do have a few questions as far as clutch wear and downshifting techniques. I preety much have coming out of first good and am not to bad on hills. Well here are my questions.

When shifting under normal driving is not fully pushing the clutch to the floor to shift causing excessive wear on the clutch?

When shifting to 2nd i dont ever have a smooth shift. I think im popping the clutch and the car jerks. Its just not a smooth shift. I have tried adding more gas but it doesnt help. Do i have to ease off the clutch on the shift. I dont want to ride it and cause wear.

When downshifting to gain speed or even roll race (future plans :-)) is it necessary to rev match. If so can someone please give a technique to practice with when doing this.

Any other tips and tricks please post.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

1. Rev matching is needed to the point where you just have to be in the vicinity. Doens't have to be exact. I just push into the throttle really fast, probably harder than you think it would take. The RPM will overshoot moderately and that gives you time to let off the clutch without making a jerky shift.

2. If you want a smoother 1-2 shift try waiting until you are moving faster or try 1->3 shift. If you aren't used to it maybe you aren't letting off the clutch fast enough before the revs come down too low and the shift is jerky.

3. Beat the box and pay for it in 20K miles.

erikthegoalie

iTrader: (29)

dude just drive, a lot...and one day you wont believe how good you are at it, thats all i can say....

good luck

SuperSport4life

iTrader: (7)

Sgt. Spuds

iTrader: (1)

I use a lot of clutch, I perfer a smooth ride vs a jerky one. Face it, clutches are cheap, abuse them as needed lol

No but for real, when your clutch goes out (dont beat on it and it should last as long as my stock peice, 140k so far) just replace it with a nicer one, and start all over again

c4hybrid2007

When shifting under normal driving is not fully pushing the clutch to the floor to shift causing excessive wear on the clutch?

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

I'd be more worried about the synchros when not pushing the clutch in all the way on shifts. With the clutch pushed in all the way the synchros only have to work against the inertia of the transmission internals, the clutch disk, and maybe a little friction from the pilot bearing. If you don't push in the clutch all the way, the synchros also have to fight against the inertia of the engine.

You can make your upshifts smoother by engaging the clutch at the right rpm. For example shifting from 1st to 2nd, if you shift at 2000 rpm you want to let the rpms fall to around 1400 rpm before you release the clutch smoothly. You can to it by timing or by sound or by looking at the tach but eventually you'll get a feel for it.

That's basically revmatching for upshifts. The same concept applies for downshifts except you put the rpms where you want them with the gas pedal. When downshifting 2 gears the rpms will roughly double. When downshifting by 1 gear the rpms will increase about 50%. So at 2000 rpm in sixth if I want to go to fifth, use the throttle to get 3000 rpm. If you want to go to 4th, 4000 rpm.

(For any musical people out there 2 gears = 1 octave)

Ripper415

iTrader: (6)

yeah, i did the same thing as you. i didn't know how to drive stick when i bought my manual 02 SS, so i hadda learn on it. i learned to drive it enough so i could get around town without the fear of dying in a good solid weekend of practice. but it took MONTHS of driving it before i got the the point where i was 100% confident in all weather/terrain (huge hills and such). from what i've heard, these 300+ hp cars aren't exactly the easiest to learn on but I guarantee a few months down the road youll be 10x better than you are now and really happy you got a manual instead of an automatic. my only advice to you is try not to get caught in stop and go traffic on a hill lol.

now as for your questions....
1)YES. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE CLUTCH TOUCHING THE FLOOR BEFORE YOU SHIFT!!! otherwise it will put extra wear on the car. everyone messes up doing that once in a while and you then hear that aweful grinding sound when you shift (very bad). if you do that for every shift you make the car wont last 10,000 miles.
2)when shifting from 1st to 2nd you cant just pop off the clutch like you do in the higher gears. you have to bring it up gradually as you simultaneously give it a little gas. but you cant do it too slowly or else youll burn up your clutch. the trick is finding the middle area between each extreme. the only way to get good at this is practice. this kinda thing is what i meant by it taking me months to get good at stick. eventually it'l become second nature and you wont even think about it.
3) yes you have to rev match when downshifting or else the car will buck. just push in the clutch, move the shifter, then right before you let off the clutch give the throttle a little blip with your foot, then let off the clutch. like the 1st to 2nd shift, this will get better with time.

i hope this helps. i couldn't resist posting because i went through the exact same thing you are. like most things in life, practice makes perfect. and once you start getting good at stick you can try more advanced maneuvers, like the heel-toe downshift around corners. that makes for a helluva fun time driving around windy back roads

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Why would you do that? Push it to the floor or give a reason why you're not! I hear all the time about people either not doing this or others giving advice to do it.

Why is this necessary? Why does anyone, anywhere think it's OK to not push the pedal all the way to the floor? Last time I checked, we don't have to tell people not to put hamburgers in their eyes, so why this?!?

old and good

iTrader: (3)

i actualy find these cars exelent to stick drive. they are super smooth on shifts and the engine power helps you in some cases from messing up and they also handle it well if you select a wrong gear (to high gear for to low speed)

i also wuld recomend that you dont use 1 gear exept when the car is stopped and/or taking off or just doing 1-3mph, these cars have long gears and it dosnt matter so much but its a good habit to learn as many other cars have much shorter gears and act funny if you use 1 gear while moving

DustinSS

iTrader: (1)

On this same note, how do you basically stock guys launch @ the track? I'm on street tires, with the stock clutch...just tryin to figure out the best launch technique @ the track..

Segselah

iTrader: (1)

The only time I don't push the clutch in all the way is when I'm racing. Just stab it and and shift. it's not that I'm not trying to push the clutch to the floor, its more that it just doesn't get there before i bring it back out.


And just practice man, you'll get it. IMO everyone should know how to drive a stick. That way, there is no car in world you can't drive. Good luck!!

Charging TA

Heres some advice: Just go out and drive, if you have a big open area go out there, stop alot and make scenarios where you have to shift alot (downshift, etc...). The key is just to do it, drive alot.

Our cars are gonna be alot easier to learn on than "imports" due to torque.

The jerkiness you may be experiencing could actually be if you are pushing the clutch all the way to the floor (your foot action may be too slow, causing the car to buck a bit). No you dont need to push the clutch all the way to the floor, as Spuds said dont be afraid to use the clutch (its meant to be slipped, professional racing clutches cannot be slipped).

People will argue "dont downshift to slow the car", "push the clutch in all the way" stating everything causes excess wear... Heres a fact though: In Europe automatics are pretty rare (most being cars imported from the US), I dont believe Ive ever road with someone who doesnt downshift, pushing the clutch all the way to the floor may also cause you to want to release it faster and thus the jerkiness. Dont just pop your foot off the clutch or move it to the shift, just smoothly let it out while giving it a bit of throttle.

Shifting technique wise, dont wait to push the clutch in and then get your hand motion going... Hold the shifter (heres a tip: Some guys hold the shifter in their hand like they would a beer bottle, I would recommend placing your hand on it like it was your computer mouse, this way your pulling/pushing straight back) right before you know your going to shift, at the same time as you touch the clutch push/pull the shifter... It sounds like a "duh" thing but you gotta make shifting a single fluid action.

You just gotta practice and get a feel for it. When you do stall dont freak out, just start the car back up and just ease the clutch out slower.

Hope this helps.

TransAmMan

^^^^

Best way I can say to learn is the same thing he did... another thing I found is useful... watch someone that drives a manuall... watch everything they do... you can get a basic idea from that as well.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Good luck with that. The only way to be sure it's disengaged is to push it all the way to the floor. Jerkiness isn't caused by pushing it all the way to the floor; it's caused by how you push it and let back in.

Not pushing the clutch to the floor... good way to wreck things.

c4hybrid2007

well i actually picked up a ford zx2 for really cheap today so this is my new practice car (whoo hoo no more wear to the camaro). Thanks guys for all the excellent info. The zx2 is actually a bit harder to drive due to the less amount of torque and shorter gears so it should be good practice. Im still doing the same things on the car though. The 2ns gear has gotten better as i now slowly let off the clutch and as im letting out give it gas. The shift is much better but sometimes i still get a bit jerky. On both cars it seems as though things are fine when i dont push the clutch all the way in. I never grind the gears or smell the clutch. BUt i will make it more of a habit to push it all the way down. Though it seems we have conflicting posts above. 2002 z28 six speed i appreciate the post and it seems u really know were im coming from. When upshifting, do u mean push the clutch in wait for the rpms to fall a bit then let the clutch out fast(almost pop it) and give gas, or let the rpms drop a bit and steadily let the clutch up while giving throttle? Any more tips as well i would appreciate it. Well gonna go to the grocery store. Practice time :-)

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

The thing is, there is no reason NOT to do it so I don't know why so many people don't want to. Could you clue me in as to why you don’t?

If you don't do it, then you might reach the disengage point. If you do push it in all the way, then you are certain that you will.

Take your pick: "maybe" or "certain." Maybe you’ll wreck your car, or certain that you won’t.

c4hybrid2007

black_knight i understanf were ur coming from its just easier and i get less of a jerk when i do it. I have started pushing it all the way in tonight it. It jsut seems i jerk more when i do it. I also have a tendency to once in about every 20 shifts rev it a bit and slip the clutch for a second. THis i know is not good. Well i guess practice makes perfect.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

That's the key. With practice, you will be able to do it right. Don't sacrifice your long-term good technique for the sake of smooth shifts "now." Learn to do it the right way and you will be rewarded.

And again, not jerking has more to do with smooth clutch operation. Pushing it all the way to the floor doesn't mean stomping on it every time.

*98Formula*

iTrader: (2)

Pushing the clutch all the way to the floor is not always necessary. When I am just casually driving I know what my disengagement point is at. It is just something I know don't even have to think about it. The best advice anyone can give you is to learn the car. Practice driving as much as you can. After that just learn your car so you know where the clutch disengages at. As long as the tranny goes into gear smoothly your not hurting the tranny any. Now bouncing around on the clutch will beat the hell out of the clutch but everyone jerks around sometimes. Even after driving hundreds of manual cars I still jerk mine around every so often. Having a work out clutch doesn't help either. Just practice 1-3 shifts the rest are simple. Go out in a big parking lot somewhere and stop. Practice taking off in 1st over and over until you can get the car moving with minimal burn on the clutch. After that try taking off in 2nd. These cars have the torgue to take off just fine in 2nd it just takes a little more effort on the clutch. This will help you get your foot trained for holding the clutch while giving it gas.