Another Hall's deal!!!
04-07-2010, 06:20 PM
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Anyone miss me lol just stopping in to say hey!! Workin on gettin the new ARH headers ordered and on, c6z06 rotors and cts-v calipers done and just got off the phone with CCW bout some wheels! Callin IForged tomorrow! Hope to be out soon!
04-07-2010, 07:15 PM
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Anybody weld a sump or have one welded into their factory fuel tank? what did you do about the baffling? Any issues with starvation with less than a 1/3 of a tank? I'm on the edge between buying a purpose built sumped fuel tank, or having a custom sump put into my factory tank.
Along with that first question, Need suggestions for inlet and outlet fittings. -10 outlet -8 return, or -8 outlet -6 return? I'm not 100% sure on what i'll be using for fuel pumps, but Beast suggested some bosch 044's.
3rd question- Whats your opinions on boost with compression ratios of pistons? some are saying that the old way (out of date) of doing it, is to drop the compression ratios of the motor so you can add more boost and timing. ( this will add more heat to the intake as you have to compress more air, and it also sucks more HP to drive the SC.
Some say run 10/1 compression, run less boost and still have the same power output. with more mechanical compression by the cylinders, you will make more h.p. per pound of boost and have less parasitic losses.
Along with that first question, Need suggestions for inlet and outlet fittings. -10 outlet -8 return, or -8 outlet -6 return? I'm not 100% sure on what i'll be using for fuel pumps, but Beast suggested some bosch 044's.
3rd question- Whats your opinions on boost with compression ratios of pistons? some are saying that the old way (out of date) of doing it, is to drop the compression ratios of the motor so you can add more boost and timing. ( this will add more heat to the intake as you have to compress more air, and it also sucks more HP to drive the SC.
Some say run 10/1 compression, run less boost and still have the same power output. with more mechanical compression by the cylinders, you will make more h.p. per pound of boost and have less parasitic losses.
If only
There are a few guys on the v8 rx7 boards that run a bulkhead fitting as a sump. IDK if it's something you'd want to do or not, but it's an option I hadn't seen before til just recently and they've had good results.
As for the whole boost vs cr deal, go turbo then you don't have to worry about turning the boost up and losing power
Also tell knock and detonation I said hi if you go high cr and low boost.I thought you were dead?!?!
Last edited by The Beast; 04-07-2010 at 07:21 PM.
04-07-2010, 11:41 PM
Kenny, you know we miss ya. 
Got mine all put back together on the new mounts:
And Luke, I have a sump welded to a stock tank, no issues so far. You can come take a look see anytime you want. I'm planning on adding fuel pressure monitoring to my datalogger (already have a gauge), but going by AFR logging (wideband) I've not had any troubles, though I keep it above 1/4 tank at all times.
Got mine all put back together on the new mounts:
And Luke, I have a sump welded to a stock tank, no issues so far. You can come take a look see anytime you want. I'm planning on adding fuel pressure monitoring to my datalogger (already have a gauge), but going by AFR logging (wideband) I've not had any troubles, though I keep it above 1/4 tank at all times.
04-08-2010, 12:30 AM
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About the cr & boost thing here is something to consider. This was posted by Billyman a while back on the TBSS site, the same Billyman who is a mod on yellow bullet.
OEM vs. Forged
I get really tired of old “yesteryear” ways of thinking and acts applied today. It literally drives me nuts and for whatever reason, in some cases, pisses me off.
Take any vehicle you like that has readily available supercharger or turbo kits. Depending on the vehicle and engine, one could be looking at as little as 3psi or as much as 12psi worth of boost and deemed “safe level” for that application. Increases can be as little as 30% and as much as 60%+. All this added power with boost and the systems designed to be “safe” on BONE STOCK ENGINES. Somewhere along these lines we get greedy and want a little more. We want more power and more boost and we push the envelope. Add-ons such as methanol injection and custom tuning come into play. With either/or or both, the “safe levels” are pushed up a notch or two…..or three. It doesn’t take long before “safe” no longer applies and the “let’s see what happens” takes its place.
Whether it be actual engine failure or apprehension there of, one turns to the “built motor” or “forged bottom end”. The part about the “built and forged” motor is what kills me. Most engine builders and parts manufacturers will automatically recommend a combo to lower your compression ratio while supplying and recommending forged components.
So let’s get this straight………(example)
One had a 40% gain at 10:1 CR and at 6psi of boost. A factory rod that was rated well under ones HP level has failed because it couldn’t take the stress. The general consensus is to build forged @ 9:0 CR.
WHY?????
The problem to begin with was the parts used--not the compression ratio. Now you upgrade those parts to handle what you’re doing and beyond and for some reason you’re going to lower the CR in the midst of it all? Where you were making 550 RWHP with 6psi @ 10:1 static CR, you are now making 470 RWHP with 6psi @ 9.0 static CR. And now you have a bottom end that will withstand much, much more. At this point you spend more money in smaller pulley’s or you adjust your boost controller to get more boost just to regain your before 550 RWHP. In order to go beyond that point you have turn those blowers even harder or cap those turbo’s a lot later. In the midst of it all, you’ve surpassed the blower or turbo size and although you see increased boost pressure, you’re at the peak of the cfm flow and raised your IAT’s significantly. Not to mention that now you’re out of injector and have more cylinder to fill.
I don’t get it. Someone please explain to me the part I’m missing.
If you have a stock engine with 10:1, boost of 6psi, and see 500 RWHP. Then when you build your forged engine for the same setup, build the engine (stroker or not) with 10:1.
On the stroker forged engine, because of the increase in swept volume, the dynamic compression will be higher and you will see more HP at the same boost levels with an S/C………….on a turbo setup, the turbo(s) will spool quicker.
Discuss
OEM vs. Forged
I get really tired of old “yesteryear” ways of thinking and acts applied today. It literally drives me nuts and for whatever reason, in some cases, pisses me off.
Take any vehicle you like that has readily available supercharger or turbo kits. Depending on the vehicle and engine, one could be looking at as little as 3psi or as much as 12psi worth of boost and deemed “safe level” for that application. Increases can be as little as 30% and as much as 60%+. All this added power with boost and the systems designed to be “safe” on BONE STOCK ENGINES. Somewhere along these lines we get greedy and want a little more. We want more power and more boost and we push the envelope. Add-ons such as methanol injection and custom tuning come into play. With either/or or both, the “safe levels” are pushed up a notch or two…..or three. It doesn’t take long before “safe” no longer applies and the “let’s see what happens” takes its place.
Whether it be actual engine failure or apprehension there of, one turns to the “built motor” or “forged bottom end”. The part about the “built and forged” motor is what kills me. Most engine builders and parts manufacturers will automatically recommend a combo to lower your compression ratio while supplying and recommending forged components.
So let’s get this straight………(example)
One had a 40% gain at 10:1 CR and at 6psi of boost. A factory rod that was rated well under ones HP level has failed because it couldn’t take the stress. The general consensus is to build forged @ 9:0 CR.
WHY?????
The problem to begin with was the parts used--not the compression ratio. Now you upgrade those parts to handle what you’re doing and beyond and for some reason you’re going to lower the CR in the midst of it all? Where you were making 550 RWHP with 6psi @ 10:1 static CR, you are now making 470 RWHP with 6psi @ 9.0 static CR. And now you have a bottom end that will withstand much, much more. At this point you spend more money in smaller pulley’s or you adjust your boost controller to get more boost just to regain your before 550 RWHP. In order to go beyond that point you have turn those blowers even harder or cap those turbo’s a lot later. In the midst of it all, you’ve surpassed the blower or turbo size and although you see increased boost pressure, you’re at the peak of the cfm flow and raised your IAT’s significantly. Not to mention that now you’re out of injector and have more cylinder to fill.
I don’t get it. Someone please explain to me the part I’m missing.
If you have a stock engine with 10:1, boost of 6psi, and see 500 RWHP. Then when you build your forged engine for the same setup, build the engine (stroker or not) with 10:1.
On the stroker forged engine, because of the increase in swept volume, the dynamic compression will be higher and you will see more HP at the same boost levels with an S/C………….on a turbo setup, the turbo(s) will spool quicker.
Discuss
04-08-2010, 07:22 AM
On the CR bit, I'd personally shoot for mid 9s. No reason to go super low compression (like mine), but I personally like the safety margin provided by ~9.4-9.5:1 vs. 10.0-10.5:1. Forged or not, you have NO room to breathe on 10+ compression and boost.
04-08-2010, 01:25 PM
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FWIW, the only stock headed LSx's I've seen break the 1000rwhp mark are all in the 8.8-9.1 range. But I agree with what Blake said, 9.5 is the highest I'd want to go on a pump gas street car.
Luke, if you don't know the effective compression ratio formula it's: ((boost psi / 14.7) + 1) x motor compression
Luke, if you don't know the effective compression ratio formula it's: ((boost psi / 14.7) + 1) x motor compression
04-08-2010, 06:51 PM
They're 3 exposures done with mirror locking, lightly HDR processed; I couldn't get good detail without crappy shadows in my garage light without doing that.
I was waiting for you to catch that.
I was waiting for you to catch that.
04-08-2010, 10:50 PM
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CR with Boost Luke the high vs low CR with boost varies with each application. Fuel type, intercooling, cam profiles(LSA and overlap), exhaust restriction/turbo sizing, and many other factors play into it.
Im def not an expert, but the tune of the engine is most important, its whats going to keep the engine alive if its built "on the edge". There are a few guys on the bullet running 18+lbs on a 12.5:1 motors; they all say the same thing its all in the tune/combo. But just because others have done it doesnt mean it will work for everyone.
I wouldnt worry about boosting a 10:1 if thats what the engine was optimized to run at and I was comfortable with the tune. I would worry about an engine that was built with sub-par parts / miss matched parts for the combo or on a poor tune.
Im def not an expert, but the tune of the engine is most important, its whats going to keep the engine alive if its built "on the edge". There are a few guys on the bullet running 18+lbs on a 12.5:1 motors; they all say the same thing its all in the tune/combo. But just because others have done it doesnt mean it will work for everyone.
I wouldnt worry about boosting a 10:1 if thats what the engine was optimized to run at and I was comfortable with the tune. I would worry about an engine that was built with sub-par parts / miss matched parts for the combo or on a poor tune.
04-08-2010, 11:40 PM
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I thought they were, but I love how you didn't overcook it and make it obvious. Well done man!
did you use photomatix or photoshop to merge them all?
did you use photomatix or photoshop to merge them all?
04-09-2010, 12:38 AM
Those were done with Photomatix, though I have CS4 with the tone mapping plugin from Photomatix also.
Yeah, I tried to make it not-obvious. I thought they came out pretty good for only taking 3 sets of photos and spending a couple minutes editing.
Yeah, I tried to make it not-obvious. I thought they came out pretty good for only taking 3 sets of photos and spending a couple minutes editing.
04-11-2010, 04:59 PM
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To save the hassle of swapping front brakes, I have decided that when I am able to afford them, I will purchase these wheels for the back. Close enough to the ZR1's?
http://lrcraceparts.com/15x10-275-rt..._store=default
http://lrcraceparts.com/15x10-275-rt..._store=default
04-11-2010, 06:16 PM
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Got a pretty much new dual channel LM-2 and 2 BNIB ProSport digital A/F gauges I need to sell with a quickness:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...-f-gauges.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...-f-gauges.html
04-11-2010, 09:57 PM
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[QUOTE=SS1875;13171869]To save the hassle of swapping front brakes, I have decided that when I am able to afford them, I will purchase these wheels for the back. Close enough to the ZR1's?
Darren,Why the hell are selling what you got and buying something that looks different but will do exactly the same thing as what your have??? I don't understand you sometimes. Just get the thing on the road with what you got and enjoy it. Your already on version 8.5678 I would throw a bottle on it and buy a set of DR's and have some fun. Hell with the money you got in that you could of had a new ZR1 and been able to drive it to Florida and back and still have a quick *** car??
Darren,Why the hell are selling what you got and buying something that looks different but will do exactly the same thing as what your have??? I don't understand you sometimes. Just get the thing on the road with what you got and enjoy it. Your already on version 8.5678 I would throw a bottle on it and buy a set of DR's and have some fun. Hell with the money you got in that you could of had a new ZR1 and been able to drive it to Florida and back and still have a quick *** car??
04-12-2010, 10:27 PM
To save the hassle of swapping front brakes, I have decided that when I am able to afford them, I will purchase these wheels for the back. Close enough to the ZR1's?
http://lrcraceparts.com/15x10-275-rt..._store=default
http://lrcraceparts.com/15x10-275-rt..._store=default
04-13-2010, 10:07 AM
