KevinR

Considering his name...I doubt he is a SEAL..

J1D2warrior

iTrader: (2)

I agree. no legitimate SEAL would ever call himself by such a name.

It'llrun

A SEABEE wouldn't get mad about the bee either... Because that's their chosen mascot, just like the bulldog was chosen be Marines... As was "Bill the goat" by the Navy as a whole.

Btw, when you added your post, there were hardly any made at all... so to claim "all the nutswinging" is merely your "out" ... Nobody's all pissed off about it, but the facts remain, that's all.

JIBBBY

Just reading over this thread now, I overlooked this post..

Well, in this case of long distant fire fights, I would venture to guess a prepared Navy Seal team would come equiped with either the M4 or the Mark 12 rifles and not an M16 or M14. Just a wild guess...

According to this vid the M16 was indeed more accurate at 200 yards and it wasn't even close, but the AK47 is a much more powerful weapon for penetrating objects.. Have a look for yourself..

This is one of the better comparison vids that I've seen...4.29 seconds of very good ballistic knowledge on both weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI...eature=related

JIBBBY

Just incase some on lookers aren't familiar with these.. I'm obviously trying to make this an informative thread of sorts.. Any thoughts on these two weapons of choice for long distant fire fights?

The M4 is a very capable weapon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pKehYJGCFs

The Mark 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx_RX-IAI-I

JIBBBY

This is the incident, the book is a great read (Lone Survivor), the book practically just puts you right their in the fire fight practically.. Very well written, and it's frigg'n nuts!! Very discriptive and accurate accounts of the tragic events that transpired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FPLC...eature=related

Personally, I think they should have wasted those two goat herders and the boy that discovered that Seal team on the mountain top, even though they were presumed innocent and not Taliban.. The liberal media put the fear of jail in that Seal team, and that ultimately swayed the vote to let those bastards go free and report their position to the Taliban forces.

That single act cost the lives of 16 elete special force soldiers in the end.. Not just Navy Seals either..

geoffreymexico

iTrader: (5)

that seems a little harsh my friend it would take a lot out of a man to just kill a kid because he might go rat you out

It'llrun

It almost happened. These guys work in secrecy or face what Luttrell and his buddies did. If you're in that situation, killing someone to stay alive probably sounds fairly tempting to say the least.

J1D2warrior

iTrader: (2)

I have had the pleasure of firing both the M4 and the AK47 in fully automatic trim thanks to a good friend of mine. I loved the M4.

I didnt do any kind of in depth research or testing. Just picked them up and emptied a couple of clips into a target. The M4 was my favorite by far as far as rate of fire, ease of handling, and ability to keep the front end down and stay on target (as much as a civilian who had never picked one up before is able to stay on target)

JIBBBY

I know, but it's either that or compromise yourself and the team to some people you really can't trust or can't even communicate with? It's such a tough decision to kill someone in cold blood. Some of these Seals were Christians and just could not do it.. Flip side, one must think casualties of war do happen and it can't be your fault if your faced with making that harsh of a decision to save the mission and your brothers in arms... Although, killing a kid is something you would have to live with on your conscience for the rest of your life. Then agian, that kid could have been the next Taliban recruit and leader for all you know. Look at the alternative, this team could not run and evade once in that position, and a team of 4 seals were aware of this huge Taliban force sitting right under their noses (200 strong). What do you do? You can't give up your position like that and compromise your mission, but they did and let them go anyways. In the end the goat herders ratted them out and it cost many more American lives anyways..

Tough call no dought.. I'm in no position to make that call either, it's just unfortunate the way it played out regardless. That Seal Team knew it may cost their lives to let them go and they did it anyways.. Brave men..

JIBBBY

Yeah, but isn't the M4 a much larger gun to handle and run around with? The AK47 seems like such a smaller gun to be mobile with?

It's crazy to me how the AK47 barrel flex's under fire. I'm sure the M4 is a steady pig..

Thanks for the lowdown, love hearing about the comparisons with people that actually fired both weapons..

Yun Gunz

I dont know how all the branches and what it breaks down to your basic weapon, but you have never shot a M4? If you have a M16 then just imagine it lighter and more compact, hence why tankers carry them, they fit in our vehicles nice and snug in holders. The AK can be accurate but at times when it hits the fan it turns into a spray and pray, kinda explains why alot of youtube videos is us sending rounds down range until we go black. Even at that moment, the M4/16 is more stable and controllable when you are sending lead the other way. Plus it is easier to get the Nato 5.56 in bulk.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

You guys will have to excuse Jibby. He's got an insanely bad habit of saying incredibly dumb **** with very little or zero knowledge to state his case other than what he reads/sees on the internet or watches on TV.

Jibby, SEALS are not the end-all of elite military force. They're just one team, and there are several others. Each team has their own designated agenda, and each team will probably be better than the next at what they're specifically trained to do.

JIBBBY

Right Damian^^^ I thought we got passed this already and were moving on. What are you doing in the Military section anyway Damian?

Yes, these days I do get most of my information off the internet, books TV and tours.. However, is that all false information that I am recieving, I think not? That's all I can do at this point in my life. I was actually just trying to learn more by starting this thread and hearing from some of the actual Navy Seals first hand.. Is that so wrong?

If it makes people feel better I can start a tribute thread for Rangers, Marines, Green Berets, etc. Find hero's and brave soldiers in every Military division.. I would be happy to do that...

Can't you just have a tribute thread to Navy Seals in the Military section without being accused of knocking other elete military groups????? Damn this is pathetic!!!!!! Just because I am hyping the Seals doesn't mean I don't have equal respect for all other Military forces and groups.

JIBBBY

I have fired and used the M16 in AF basics many years ago... The M4 I have not fired and would like to try it out one day just for thrills.

J1D2warrior

iTrader: (2)

of course you can. Theres nothing wrong with your thread so just ignore anyone that gives you a hard time for it.

the problem is, most SEALs dont go around admitting they are SEALs or telling people they are SEALs. So getting any to come in here and give you serious input on what they do on a daily basis isnt likely.

I am fortunate enough to get to speak to one regularly, and I get to pick his brain quite often. He probably gets tired of being bombarded wtih idiotic questions but I am just fascinated by what they do.

I am just as fascinated by all other branches and military groups. All of them deserve our praise and appreciation. I do not however see a problem with asking about one certain group and inquiring about what they do.

While some people think the stuff you read about the SEALs is hype and overblown fantasy, it is my opinion from what I have seen first hand and learned from communicating with them personally that they are elite to say the least. They take their jobs very seriously, while not taking themselves nearly as seriously. These guys are the best at what they do. Period.

So, someone can call me a nutswinger if they want. They can make fun of me for "hyping" the SEALs or "perpetuating the myth" all they want.

I would give the same props and show the same appreciation to a recon Marine, and Army Ranger, a Green Beret, or anyone else for that matter. The only difference is that I dont know any of those guys on a personal level.

But you are ALL, each and EVERY ONE worthy of respect. From the guy fixing jet engines to the guy making 1 mile sniper shots.

Thanks to every one of you.

JIBBBY

I just read your post after posting ^^^^^^ I figured that part out, Seals are steathy.. No problem.. I will give this thread a rest..Do have one final question that I do hope will be answered though...



So what happens to the Navy Seals that graduate everything and don't get chosen to join a specific Seal team?

Do most end up in desk jobs after that? Wrenching on military boats and what not? Are some placed on back up or on standbye to become team replacements in the event of an emergency? What happens to those guys?


My nephew is getting really close to joining the Navy, he has set his mind on becoming a Navy Seal.. Big Unc is just trying to gather as much info as possible to pass on to him..

KevinR

They go back to their old unit. I'm not a SEAL, but in the Marines, if you try to go Recon and don't make it, you are sent back to your grunt unit.

geoffreymexico

iTrader: (5)

Same goes for army, if you go to Special Forces training and dont make it all the way through you go back to your line unit.

SonicBoom

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. SEALs, Recon, and SF are all the same (I'm sure this is true of just about all SO and SO-capable units) in the regard that just because you passed the course, doesn't mean that you made the cut. In all of them, you have to be interviewed by Instructors as well as Senior and Veteran members (and approved) multiple times before all is said and done. Just because someone has the physical aptitude to complete the course does NOT mean that they have the emotional stability and maturity needed or that they possess the required mindset and character that will reflect the values and core qualities of their unit, branch, and the Special Operations community as a whole (among other things).