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Here we go. A guy in a stock TA ran a 9.2 @ 79. It’s faster than a Maxima, but not blown out of the water faster. Stock ‘99’TA 1/8 mile
Looks like you found an example on the slower end, and even THEN it's still 6mph faster than your Maxima. As Roarin_8 mentioned above, that's significant if you think about the difference between not moving at all and 6mph of forward movement. And a typical stock LS1 will trap over 80mph in the 1/8th (I think mine did 83 or 84?...low/mid 80s is typical), so most of them will be about 8-10mph faster than your Maxima in the 1/8th. If you think a Maxima that traps at 73mph in the 1/8th is going to keep up with a (proper running) stock LS1 from 50-100mph, I think you might be surprised by the margin at which said Maxima loses that race.
As for the bolt-ons, as mentioned above it all adds up, but the sum of those parts is worth more than the gains from just any one of those items (e.g. an air lid will give bigger gains with a H/C setup, or vice-versa). So these things aren't money wasted if they are part of a long term strategy, and you're not going to see the most out of any big ticket "power" modification if you don't do supporting stuff.
But it sounds like you're looking for a huge improvement from single ticket items...in which case, I'd suggest a torque converter and a super/turbo or N2O. However, any/all of those items will need supporting stuff to work properly and reliably, which is really no different than buying an air lid or exhaust system to maximize the gains from an H/C/I package, etc.
If your goal is to buy one single item to be competitive with new muscle, then you're correct that there is no point. Even N2O is going to require some supporting accessories and other upgrades (like fuel system) to be reliable and minimize risk (since you mentioned longevity as being important).
I don't personally agree with the concept that (relatively) small gains can't be fun, that it's always gotta be 50-100hp at a time to be worthwhile, etc., but then I also don't concern myself with the competition aspect at this point in life. If there's something I can do to make the car a little more fun to me, and the various trade-offs of doing such fit within the realm I'm willing to accept, then it's worthwhile IMO. Whether or not it puts me in league with a new Hellcat is pretty meaningless to me. But, that's just my opinion.
I do think you'd be quite happy with a torque converter upgrade. Big gains from just that one mod are not only possible but typical (as several of us have outlined above). But supporting stuff is still going to be necessary for best overall experience and reliability (likely a bit of tuning tweaks, a trans cooler, and some decent tires).
Looks like you found an example on the slower end, and even THEN it's still 6mph faster than your Maxima. As Roarin_8 mentioned above, that's significant if you think about the difference between not moving at all and 6mph of forward movement. And a typical stock LS1 will trap over 80mph in the 1/8th (I think mine did 83 or 84?...low/mid 80s is typical), so most of them will be about 8-10mph faster than your Maxima in the 1/8th. If you think a Maxima that traps at 73mph in the 1/8th is going to keep up with a (proper running) stock LS1 from 50-100mph, I think you might be surprised by the margin at which said Maxima loses that race.
As for the bolt-ons, as mentioned above it all adds up, but the sum of those parts is worth more than the gains from just any one of those items (e.g. an air lid will give bigger gains with a H/C setup, or vice-versa). So these things aren't money wasted if they are part of a long term strategy, and you're not going to see the most out of any big ticket "power" modification if you don't do supporting stuff.
But it sounds like you're looking for a huge improvement from single ticket items...in which case, I'd suggest a torque converter and a super/turbo or N2O. However, any/all of those items will need supporting stuff to work properly and reliably, which is really no different than buying an air lid or exhaust system to maximize the gains from an H/C/I package, etc.
If your goal is to buy one single item to be competitive with new muscle, then you're correct that there is no point. Even N2O is going to require some supporting accessories and other upgrades (like fuel system) to be reliable and minimize risk (since you mentioned longevity as being important).
I don't personally agree with the concept that (relatively) small gains can't be fun, that it's always gotta be 50-100hp at a time to be worthwhile, etc., but then I also don't concern myself with the competition aspect at this point in life. If there's something I can do to make the car a little more fun to me, and the various trade-offs of doing such fit within the realm I'm willing to accept, then it's worthwhile IMO. Whether or not it puts me in league with a new Hellcat is pretty meaningless to me. But, that's just my opinion.
I do think you'd be quite happy with a torque converter upgrade. Big gains from just that one mod are not only possible but typical (as several of us have outlined above). But supporting stuff is still going to be necessary for best overall experience and reliability (likely a bit of tuning tweaks, a trans cooler, and some decent tires).
I understand that bolt-ons are “supporting mods” and that the entire system (starting with heads) is what makes power. It’s not that I want just one big ticket item. It’s more along the lines of I don’t have the funds to build a “complete system” so I’d just be stuck with a couple of “supporting mods.” The bolt-on game wouldn’t be so bad if we weren’t talking about several thousand dollars equating to a few mph added to a drag strip run. My Mustang for example runs around 80 mph in the 1/8, the fastest being 82 mph. To me it’s not worth a $1k on a set of long-tubes so it can possibly run 85 mph. The 85 is an arbitrary number of course, but the long-tubes wouldn’t get me up to 95 mph which is closer to what the new stockish V8’s were running. So $1k or so later I’d still have the slowest nag at the track.
So circling back to the Z28 project since I probably won’t ever get a new top end (maybe when I’m 60, I’m 39 now) stock motor parts and $2k invested in a converter makes more since to me than $3k in bolt-ons to go from 280-300 rear horse (arbitrary numbers) since I probably can’t do both.
On another rant, I wish someone made a good “quick strut.” I need to r&r the suspension and it’s too bad there’s not a good name brand (Koni, Bilstein, etc) pseudo performance oriented ready to mount “quick strut.” I don’t really want lower it and I’m kinda chicken to take the old spring off the front and install it on the new assy. Stinks.
On suspension, check out Strano Performance one of our sponsors. Sam won many SCCA events and is an outstanding suspension guru.
He offers his custom spring kit with Koni SRT.T shocks. It can be ordered already assembled, so it's just a simple parts swap. It's well worth a call to Sam to discuss what's right for your car. If best ride is critical the assembeled package can be ordered with Bilsteins also.
I ordered the Strano custom spring kit with Koni SRT.T shocks assembled a few weeks ago and just had it installed on my 02 Z28.
Very happy with the firmer suspension, better ride & improved handling on my quarter million mile 02 Z28.
BTW - same 02 Z28 picked up ~46 whp with headers, Y pipe, SLP dual/dual, 92mm TB, 90mm snout LS6 intake, 85mm Maf & 98mm lid. Gained enough to feel improvement in normal driving.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-13-2022 at 10:57 AM.
On suspension, check out Strano Performance one of our sponsors. Sam won many SCCA events and is an outstanding suspension guru.
He offers his custom spring kit with Koni SRT.T shocks. It can be ordered already assembled, so it's just a simple parts swap. It's well worth a call to Sam to discuss what's right for your car. If best ride is critical the assembeled package can be ordered with Bilsteins also.
I ordered the Strano custom spring kit with Koni SRT.T shocks assembled a few weeks ago and just had it installed on my 02 Z28.
Very happy with the firmer suspension, better ride & improved handling on my quarter million mile 02 Z28.
BTW - same 02 Z28 picked up ~46 whp with headers, Y pipe, SLP dual/dual, 92mm TB, 90mm snout LS6 intake, 85mm Maf & 98mm lid. Gained enough to feel improvement in normal driving.
Good lookin grew you got there. On a scale from chuckwagon to Cadillac how stiff is the Strano & Str.t combo? Once upon a time I had a car with Eibach Sportlines and str.t’s and it was pretty rough and jarring. It was on the chuckwagon end of the scale and I don’t want that. At this juncture in my life I want a minimal drop (under an inch) or maybe none, and a decent ride vs all out handling. But I don’t want it out there floating around like a pontoon boat either. My rear new control arms arrived today. So that’s a step in the right direction. Too bad they don’t come assembled but the ***** work well.
Last edited by Y2K_Frenzy; 03-13-2022 at 01:20 PM.
Looks like a nice set of RLCA's. I had similar adjustable's on my 02 Z28 last week, plus adjustable panhard to ensure rear was centered and thrust angle good.
Sam will provide honest advice on selecting best parts for what you're looking for in suspension.
My judgment of ride quality, the Bilsteins & Strano's springs would be the better riding combo. That's based on my two 4th Gens's & a 3rd Gen not pictured.
The black Trans Am above has Eibach Sportlines & Bilsteins. It rides a bit softer than the 02 Z28 with Strano's springs & Koni SRT.T's. The Eibachs are good in front but too soft for the rear. The rear gets unsettled on bad pavement due to the Eibach spring rate - plus Eibach seems to sag a little over the years. However, seemed like best choice back in 2001 😀😃🙂🙃😊
Just wrapped doing ~800 miles over the last few days in the 02 Z28. Very happy with ride. Could easily do another ~800 miles tomorrow. My 02 Z28 only dropped ~.5 to .75 inch with the new springs & shock package instead of 1.4 inches often mentioned. I think that 20+ years & 257,000 miles had taken away some of the "stock" ride height out of the stock parts. Compression of rubber, fatigue etc. FWIW - My 99 T/A dropped .75 inch with the Eibachs & SLP Bilstein's but the car was only a few years old when they went on.
Beautiful car I love the color. I'd imagine that runs pretty good stock but full exhaulst, intake and tune will really wake it up. And a cam, LS bolt ons really make a huge difference and 100 more hp is really easy on a stock LS
...So $1k or so later I’d still have the slowest nag at the track.
Maybe so, and that's probably an important consideration if you're building a competitive track car. But, using the arbitrary(ish) numbers, if you can afford enough bolt-ons to go from ~80mph to ~85mph in the 1/8th, that's going to feel noticeably quicker and more fun to drive on the street. So, assuming you do want more power than stock, I think that's better than being relegated to 80mph until you can afford the WHOLE package to get to 95mph - especially if those same parts are going to be beneficial for a future build anyway. But that's just my opinion.
Originally Posted by Y2K_Frenzy
So circling back to the Z28 project since I probably won’t ever get a new top end (maybe when I’m 60, I’m 39 now) stock motor parts and $2k invested in a converter makes more since to me than $3k in bolt-ons to go from 280-300 rear horse (arbitrary numbers) since I probably can’t do both.
Well yes, if your budget is limited to ~$2-3k over the next 20 years then I would definitely recommend doing the converter (and a cooler, and any necessary tuning tweaks - such as shift points - which are sometimes needed) before spending all that same cash on "power" bolt-ons. Just keep in mind, all those bolt-ons plus an optimized converter (and, of course, proper provisions for traction) will get you surprisingly close to those newer muscle cars (obviously not the ~700hp ones) - all without needing to break open the engine or buy FI. It's pretty shocking how quick some bolt-on LS1 F-bodies have managed to hit over the years, and I'm not just talking about gutted "max effort" race cars either. Induction, exhaust, and stall speed optimization can unlock a lot of power and performance without ever breaking into the short block.
Beautiful car I love the color. I'd imagine that runs pretty good stock but full exhaulst, intake and tune will really wake it up. And a cam, LS bolt ons really make a huge difference and 100 more hp is really easy on a stock LS
Thanks man. The motor is in good shape and I think the trans is in fair shape. With such low miles I was hoping to not have to R&R the suspension right away but that’s not the case. I don’t know how “right away” it’ll be, since the darn rear end is fixing to eat a chunk of money (hope just bearings, seals, etc) but it needs shocks in the rear for sure. The fronts seem ok at the moment. Twenty + year olds are always gonna be money-pits I guess. This one I’m hoping not as big as others though. It mostly just needs wear items. If someone such as KYB made a “quick strut” with an OEM replacement V8 spring I might would even go that route because honestly that would probably suit my needs. But it looks like of the quick-strut makers list the same part number for V6’s & V8’s and I’m betting that the springs are the “V6 springs.” If my research is correct the V8’s had a stiffer front spring rate that the V6, which would make sense since I imagine that the V8 weighs more.
Last edited by Y2K_Frenzy; 03-13-2022 at 07:57 PM.
With such low miles I was hoping to not have to R&R the suspension right away but that’s not the case. I don’t know how “right away” it’ll be, since the darn rear end is fixing to eat a chunk of money (hope just bearings, seals, etc) but it needs shocks in the rear for sure. The fronts seem ok at the moment. Twenty + year olds are always gonna be money-pits I guess. This one I’m hoping not as big as others though. It mostly just needs wear items.
I'm a bit surprised that you're having so many suspension/bushing, bearing, seal and other issues at such low mileage. Do you have full ownership history on the car? Sorry if I missed that earlier in the thread. I just wonder if it got driven a lot early on and then sat for many years at some point, or if usage was limited but consistent over time? Mine is two years older than yours, and only slightly less mileage (19k) but it hasn't needed any of the aforementioned - and I've owned this particular car since 2004. Granted, the stock shocks were pretty much crap right off the assembly line, except for examples ordered with the 1LE package (or suspension upgrades from SLP on an SS/Firehawk), but mine really haven't gotten much worse over the years with such limited use. And so far, the only bushings that are exhibiting any noticeable signs of wear are the rear sway bar bushings (they squeak just a bit in the cold, but that's a pretty recent problem).
Either way, it sucks to be ironing out issues on a car that's still pretty fresh in terms of mileage; hopefully you won't be facing too much more trouble once you get past the initial stuff. Mine has not been a money pit at all, in spite of now being 24 years old, so perhaps that might ease your mind a bit. But I've always been very strict about fluid and fuel system maintenance over the years, plus never letting it sit completely untouched for any longer than winter storage periods (<6 months).
I'm a bit surprised that you're having so many suspension/bushing, bearing, seal and other issues at such low mileage. Do you have full ownership history on the car? Sorry if I missed that earlier in the thread. I just wonder if it got driven a lot early on and then sat for many years at some point, or if usage was limited but consistent over time? Mine is two years older than yours, and only slightly less mileage (19k) but it hasn't needed any of the aforementioned - and I've owned this particular car since 2004. Granted, the stock shocks were pretty much crap right off the assembly line, except for examples ordered with the 1LE package (or suspension upgrades from SLP on an SS/Firehawk), but mine really haven't gotten much worse over the years with such limited use. And so far, the only bushings that are exhibiting any noticeable signs of wear are the rear sway bar bushings (they squeak just a bit in the cold, but that's a pretty recent problem).
Either way, it sucks to be ironing out issues on a car that's still pretty fresh in terms of mileage; hopefully you won't be facing too much more trouble once you get past the initial stuff. Mine has not been a money pit at all, in spite of now being 24 years old, so perhaps that might ease your mind a bit. But I've always been very strict about fluid and fuel system maintenance over the years, plus never letting it sit completely untouched for any longer than winter storage periods (<6 months).
I’m the second owner but that’s all I know. It’s not riding real floaty, but it’s pretty easy press down on the rear of the car to make the shocks compress. Maybe they’re just that soft?
I ordered a set of rear KYB GR2’s for $55 shipped. Shocks are more of a need than a want at this time, and $54 and some change for two rears is hard to beat. No they’re no Bil’s or Koni’s, they’re better than a blown set. I’ve had the GR2’s on my other car prob 9 years or more and they’ve held up paired with a moderate drop spring. I’ve pretty much decided that I’m going to keep the stock springs on this one. Even if I only get a year out of them $55 still isn’t too bad. I’ll do the fronts in the not so distant future and possibly this weekend I’ll install the LCA’s. I have the same LCA’s on the car that has the KYB’s and the handling and launch from a dig is pretty decent for a street car with street tires. The LCA’s made a huge improvement with that one.
I ordered an ES torque mount bushing and it arrived, still waiting on the Delco trans mount. But no hurry on those exactly because I’m gonna farm that out along with the rear end job and I don’t have an appointment yet. Hopefully in the next week or two though. If the diff is in good shape I’m gonna roll with it. If the R&P are bad I’m still uncertain what I’ll do. Maybe get another 3.23 or try something else and get a tune. I don’t want 3.73’s though and I’m thinking 3.55’s would split the difference. However, I dunno if 3.55’s would leave a mail order tuner scratching his head or not. I got a new pcv and I’m gonna change it this weekend. I may or may not Seafoam the ole gal. It kinda works but not all that much. By the way, Seafoam burns white. Carbon does not.
I agree with keeping the 3.23s if they are fine - no need to change these if you plan on a ~3500 stall speed converter in the future (gains from a 3.23 to 3.73 swap are generally limited to about one tenth of ET reduction once stall speed is optimized on an LS1 + 4L60E combo, and some won't even see that much, but the gains are bigger if you plan to stick with the stock converter). And if 3.73s are numerically higher than you want anyway, then any other ratio is going to show even less gains once stall speed is optimized. With that said, obviously if you need new gears no matter what then there is no harm in picking a more favorable ratio (other than the need for tuning) - I'd probably pick 3.42 as there are more brands available in this ratio for the 7.5" rear (even going with factory gears from an M6 car is then an option, stock gears are more likely to be quieter). IMO, the difference between 3.42 and 3.55 is, for a street car, not enough to be concerned with in terms of performance (even with a stock converter).
The PCV boot sometimes comes apart on these, causing a vacuum leak. Usually that happens at higher mileage, but it's something to be cautious of when changing the valve as it puts the boot under stress (honestly I probably wouldn't even change it at your mileage, probably nothing to be gained there). The boot itself is not available from the dealer separately, you have to buy the whole PCV line/boot assembly which I remember being pretty expensive (over $100).
I agree with keeping the 3.23s if they are fine - no need to change these if you plan on a ~3500 stall speed converter in the future (gains from a 3.23 to 3.73 swap are generally limited to about one tenth of ET reduction once stall speed is optimized on an LS1 + 4L60E combo, and some won't even see that much, but the gains are bigger if you plan to stick with the stock converter). And if 3.73s are numerically higher than you want anyway, then any other ratio is going to show even less gains once stall speed is optimized. With that said, obviously if you need new gears no matter what then there is no harm in picking a more favorable ratio (other than the need for tuning) - I'd probably pick 3.42 as there are more brands available in this ratio for the 7.5" rear (even going with factory gears from an M6 car is then an option, stock gears are more likely to be quieter). IMO, the difference between 3.42 and 3.55 is, for a street car, not enough to be concerned with in terms of performance (even with a stock converter).
The PCV boot sometimes comes apart on these, causing a vacuum leak. Usually that happens at higher mileage, but it's something to be cautious of when changing the valve as it puts the boot under stress (honestly I probably wouldn't even change it at your mileage, probably nothing to be gained there). The boot itself is not available from the dealer separately, you have to buy the whole PCV line/boot assembly which I remember being pretty expensive (over $100).
Oh dang yeah? The boot is known to tare when removing the pcv? Well dang.. The reason I was thinking about changing it is because I had a dirty TB & MAF and I figured it’d be good to change the valve. Well now I dunno. Thanks man for the heads up.
FWIW - when cleaning TB & PVC on my 99 T/A, it fell apart back in ~2012, might as well clean it as it may already be falling apart and needs replacing.
FWIW - when cleaning TB & PVC on my 99 T/A, it fell apart back in ~2012, might as well clean it as it may already be falling apart and needs replacing.
Oh dang yeah? The boot is known to tare when removing the pcv? Well dang.. The reason I was thinking about changing it is because I had a dirty TB & MAF and I figured it’d be good to change the valve. Well now I dunno. Thanks man for the heads up.
If you are going to spend over $100 for the new PCV, personally I'd just go with the ls6 valley cover and not have to worry about it. Costs less and has a built in PCV. I had this done when the cam got replaced with a used set of 243s.
I put the link up for part number 12577927 because it has a built in PCV IE has small holes in the bottom of the black piece. You will NOT have to run the PCV valve outside the manifold that's shown in the ls1howto post since that's the older style LS6 valley cover part number 12568002.
If you are going to spend over $100 for the new PCV, personally I'd just go with the ls6 valley cover and not have to worry about it. Costs less and has a built in PCV. I had this done when the cam got replaced with a used set of 243s.
I put the link up for part number 12577927 because it has a built in PCV IE has small holes in the bottom of the black piece. You will NOT have to run the PCV valve outside the manifold that's shown in the ls1howto post since that's the older style LS6 valley cover part number 12568002.
Just info for when you are ready. Mine would always break the rubber pieces too because of the hot oil.
I just came home on my lunch break and I was able to replace the PCV without incident. I sprayed around the base and inside the hose best I could w silicon lube and it was able to wiggle free with some needle nose pliers. The new one is in and I think sealing. I hadn’t driven it yet but I let it idle and it was steady.
Last edited by Y2K_Frenzy; 03-18-2022 at 12:42 PM.
03-11-2022, 01:27 PM
