Does Ram Air actually up your HP?
#101
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#103
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COme on man, a good head/cam package can achieve over 100% VE...GEEZ. Doesn't have to be a "well built race engine" How do you think these 500 rwhp stock bottom end LS1's make that power???????????????
How do you think a Head/cam LT1 makes 430 rwhp????????? Both are over 100% VE
You stated a 350 ci engine will pull "X" amount of air in, no matter what. Well you are WRONG, If that was the case ALL 350's would make the same power. Or "top out" at the same power.
How does a Nascar 358 inch engine make 800hp????????????????? VE is through the roof! It is able to cram more air in the cylinder than the typical 350, HOW? Better heads, intake, exhaust etc which makes VE go up.
Well anyway, I am gonna take MAF readings with the hood nostrils open AND blocked....we will see. Car will be running again this weekend.
David
How do you think a Head/cam LT1 makes 430 rwhp????????? Both are over 100% VE
You stated a 350 ci engine will pull "X" amount of air in, no matter what. Well you are WRONG, If that was the case ALL 350's would make the same power. Or "top out" at the same power.
How does a Nascar 358 inch engine make 800hp????????????????? VE is through the roof! It is able to cram more air in the cylinder than the typical 350, HOW? Better heads, intake, exhaust etc which makes VE go up.
Well anyway, I am gonna take MAF readings with the hood nostrils open AND blocked....we will see. Car will be running again this weekend.
David
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Theoretically, do you think if you cut off the top of an intake manifold so it got all the air it could ever use, it will make more power on a stock 350 LT1 then the same stock engine with an accufab ~1350 CFM???? OF COURSE NOT! It already has the capability to move twice as much air as it could ever use without forced induction!
Will a huge chambered 220 headed/4barrell accufab on a stock cube/stock cam LT1 make it faster at the track?? HELL NO!
There is such thing as "too much". Your kind of reasoning is why there are so many overcammed LT1s stuck in the 12s.
Last edited by Puck; 12-29-2007 at 08:09 AM.
#105
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#106
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Going waaaay back:
![](https://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/299872.jpg)
![](https://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/299873.jpg)
![](https://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/299874.jpg)
![](https://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/299875.jpg)
![](https://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/299876.jpg)
#107
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that's what he most recently ran. Trust me, my best friend
raced him a million times in SSO. Here's a vid of my boy
beating Billy. vid
Notice how Billy was in front by 2 cars...he got beat by 2 cars.
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Last edited by unit213; 12-29-2007 at 08:44 AM.
#109
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Once again, you are completely mistaking my words!!! I said a 350ci can only possibly fit a certain amount of air into its cylinders without forced induction. If a XXX volumed cylinder is filled and emptied XXX times per minute, a set amount of air has passed through it in that time period - there is no getting past that! Of course not every 350 moves that same air - that is rediculous!
Cam, heads, intake, altitude, weather, and humidity all effect how much air passes through an engine at a certain rpm - although without forced induction it still cannot pass that size limit of the chambers...a fancy hood does not either
In an N/A engine more power is made by moving the air in and out faster, thereby filling the cylinders more completely during the cams durations - not by cramming more into the cylinders! That is BASIC engine theory! Ram air on a ws6 is NOT forced induction, and therefore CANNOT get past the same air limits all 346/350ci engines face! I really cannot believe your thought processes are so backwards.
Theoretically, do you think if you cut off the top of an intake manifold so it got all the air it could ever use, it will make more power on a stock 350 LT1 then the same stock engine with an accufab ~1350 CFM???? OF COURSE NOT! It already has the capability to move twice as much air as it could ever use without forced induction!
Will a huge chambered 220 headed/4barrell accufab on a stock cube/stock cam LT1 make it faster at the track?? HELL NO!
There is such thing as "too much". Your kind of reasoning is why there are so many overcammed LT1s stuck in the 12s.
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
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Theoretically, do you think if you cut off the top of an intake manifold so it got all the air it could ever use, it will make more power on a stock 350 LT1 then the same stock engine with an accufab ~1350 CFM???? OF COURSE NOT! It already has the capability to move twice as much air as it could ever use without forced induction!
Will a huge chambered 220 headed/4barrell accufab on a stock cube/stock cam LT1 make it faster at the track?? HELL NO!
There is such thing as "too much". Your kind of reasoning is why there are so many overcammed LT1s stuck in the 12s.
You contradict yourself over and over and over. You way of thinking(which is PURELY what you have read on message boards and repeated, nothing else) makes it impossible to do anything outside the box, a 220CC head is NOT too big for an EFI 350 inch engine PERIOD!
I have a 250CC port on a 383, Mindgame on Cz28.com back in the day had a 18* head converted for a 383 LT1 with a similar port size that made 540 to the wheels through a six speed and ran 9's normally aspirated. My engine in a six speed car with a 12 bolt would make 510+ to the wheels on stock electronics under 7000 rpm, in a 3000 lb car would run high 9's on pumpfuel, idles great, drives great.....explain that one smart guy. I guess MY heads are too big? I would go faster with smaller heads?
600 flywheel hp on 23* heads on pumpfuel is pretty impressive, I guess my combo is ALL wrong? Smaller throttlebody, heads and cam...I would go quicker? Power peaks at 6500 rpm....I have HUGE everything..right? Not possible? Well it does.
In a month or so I will have my 10 second slip in a 3800lb, drag radial pumpgas streetcar WITH overdrive. If my car had a 3500 lb raceweight(like you) it would run 10.60's No problem.
Here is the dyno graph, this is JUST like it is driven on the street AND raced at the track, I change NOTHING.
Filter in the box, FULL mufflex exhaust, no cutout. These numbers were with two hurt pistons(bad fuel) now it makes at least 475 to the tires through a 4L60E, Steel driveshaft and a 9 inch rear with a Detroit locker...ALL heavy. I did not build a dyno queen OR a one hit wonder...it is built to be durable and live.
![](http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4056/dyno002sm9.jpg)
Your old school theories that you read about do not apply anymore.
As for the hood deal, if it stops raining and I get the rear back in the car this weekend. I will do my test with the scan tool.
Read what 9 Ball posted above, it made his car quicker.....
David
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right, but also read what tony posted several pages back.. everyone agrees it works, just not hardly at all. i have free ram air on mine because every little bit helps. but i didn't cut it and expect to be lined up with John Force
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Are you guys "discussing" that a Ram Air compresses more air into the motor over a CAI or simply which one yields lower IAT's? I think the gains get miscontrued when lower IAT's are obtained (more hp) and people classify that as a "raming" effect.
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
Pressure bonuses can be had on the intake just as easily as they are in the exhaust. The bonuses from a WS6 "Ram Air" setup are probably negligible even if it is sealed to the hood though. Isn't the front of the car designed to push the air above the canopy? That means mostly over the openings on the hood right?
It is a very good location for a CAI tho (if it was sealed up well)... much better than from in front of the radiator (depending on design) and lower IAT is something that is nice regardless of the ram air effect.
#112
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Ram air only works if the airbox is completely sealed to the hood and no leaks are present. Then it only works at high speeds, maybe over 100+ mph. Until then, it is just a cool air setup, which is also effective. At the drag strip, we tested normal hood setups vs ram air hoods and found that the hood was worth about 0.05 sec and 1 mph trap speeds, on cars running low 12s. That isn't bad for something that looks cool yet also functions.
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#113
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As for the table showing hp limits at rpms, I would guess that is for at sea level N/A and could be changed greatly by applying a positive pressure differential on the intake (nPSI at the intake, ie. forced induction), which would increase the density, which would cram more molecules through in the same rpm causing more power.
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The Performance difference comes from Cold, fresh air.
The 'Ram Air' effect is so small you might as well consider it bullshit.
It doesn't help your car.
People get more HP from switching to a good oil.
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The 'Ram Air' effect is so small you might as well consider it bullshit.
It doesn't help your car.
People get more HP from switching to a good oil.
![Werd](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/werd.gif)
The argument was NOT whether ram air works or not. I happen to have a nice 03 zx-6r with a fully functional ram air system from the factory. Very effective around the 130 mark, but makes a difference on that lil engine at around 40mph too! Too bad that has NOTHING to do with a v8 f-body...
The debate was about it being useful in a STREET CAR only trapping in the 120's. All that professional pro stock crap is USELESS in this argument.
If you believe an 11 second car will get a huge benefit from two little nostrils "ram air" effect, maybe you should ditch dyno tunes and prochargers for Hypertech's and electric "turbos". They claim TONS of benefits too
.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836138
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In particular pay attention to our very own Nine Ball's post: :https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....64&postcount=9 <-TESTED
/thread.
The debate was about it being useful in a STREET CAR only trapping in the 120's. All that professional pro stock crap is USELESS in this argument.
If you believe an 11 second car will get a huge benefit from two little nostrils "ram air" effect, maybe you should ditch dyno tunes and prochargers for Hypertech's and electric "turbos". They claim TONS of benefits too
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836138
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In particular pay attention to our very own Nine Ball's post: :https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....64&postcount=9 <-TESTED
/thread.
![Nod](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_nod.gif)
If you believe an 11 second car will get a huge benefit from two little nostrils "ram air" effect, maybe you should ditch dyno tunes and prochargers for Hypertech's and electric "turbos". They claim TONS of benefits too
.
![Rolleyes](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/rolleyes.gif)
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Last edited by burnzilla; 12-29-2007 at 04:00 PM.
#115
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my friend has a 99 z28 and he put a SLP CAI in it and we both noticed a huge difference from stock, im not sure but isn't that the difference in a z28 and SS is the factory SLP CAI?
#116
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That means nothing because you don't have to maintain flow for a gauge, if you blew into an intake with a psi guage, you wouldn't get it to rise unless you kept blowing it up like a balloon, but you can't begin to compare to the flow of 100 mph.
Now don't get me wrong, ram air is only going to really help you any on high/top speed runs. As I made my point in the 3rd or so post in this thread.
Now don't get me wrong, ram air is only going to really help you any on high/top speed runs. As I made my point in the 3rd or so post in this thread.
#119
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I'm not sure how that will work out for you if it's sealed from your nostrils to the air box, you'll get 0 flow?
As for the table showing hp limits at rpms, I would guess that is for at sea level N/A and could be changed greatly by applying a positive pressure differential on the intake (nPSI at the intake, ie. forced induction), which would increase the density, which would cram more molecules through in the same rpm causing more power.
As for the table showing hp limits at rpms, I would guess that is for at sea level N/A and could be changed greatly by applying a positive pressure differential on the intake (nPSI at the intake, ie. forced induction), which would increase the density, which would cram more molecules through in the same rpm causing more power.
The front of the box is open, there is a passage for it to get air from in the hood latch area.
If the MONSOON in south Alabama will stop I will go piddle around and take some readings.
David