liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

Most people say only to go with longtubes, well i'm going to share my experience and research with you all. So I had shorty headers on my car made by JBA, then your typical cats and exhaust into a lm2. Well I couldn't see who made my headers until we had them off the car last night. What we did was gut the cats and hook up a piece made by stainless works that connects directly to the shorties and all the way back to the lm2 I have. Most people on here say that you get 1-2 hp out of shorty's and that the cats only restrict about 1-2 hp. Well my car went from that stock feel, and quick, to now I could actually feel it 'pulling'. By that I mean my car was always faster than most other cars I lined up against, and it would move about quickly if you will. Now when i'm on it, I can actually feel it pressing me back into my seat. It made a huge! huge difference. Also we plugged in the first o2s but not the 2nd, and my ses light never popped on! What a huge bonus. I'm here to also bust the 1-2 hp gains. My shorty headers were made by a company called JBA. They have very very! nice collecters on them and are extremely easy to take in and out. Here is also a dyno showing the results, and this is with the cats still on! http://products.jbaheaders.com/dyno.asp# Click on Chevy "5.7L Chevrolet Camaro / Pontiac Firebird dyno test of JBA Headers" It's about 12 lbs tqe inc. and a 15 hp gain increase. Keep in mind this is without gutting the cats, and it has the EGR.

Product: Cat4ward® Shorty
Header Material: Stainless steel
Header Finish: Natural
Header Style: Shorty
Primary Tube Diam (in): 1 5/8”
Flange Style: 1 Piece
Flange Thickness (in): 3/8"
Collector Style: JBA Firecone®
Collector Attachment: Stock Flange
Hardware Included: Yes
Gaskets Included: Yes
Reducers Included: No
Mid-Pipe Required: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair
CarbEO #: D-216-28
Instructions: Download Instructions
Install Time: 5 Hours
List Price: $977.00
Factory Direct Price: $718.10
Notes: (view notes) 16

Now i'm not saying I would spend this much money on shorties, but they do pack one hell of a performace increase. I'm saying based on what I felt, I had to do some research because it was a night and day difference! Also my car didn't throw a ses light, which I thought was odd, after driving home about 30 miles from my buddy's. I have a small exhaust leak somewhere to, but it sounds good. I have to finish up some laundry here on my day off and i'll run downstairs and post up a video. I think this is a great idea for people who have to do admissions testing and a visual inspection or people who want to retain cats and still want the performance.

This also busts the myth on here that shorty's only do 1-2 hp. I wish I would have taken some pictures of the collectors on them, there as nice as any lt.

Ryan.

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

I'm a fan of shorties when a car needs to stay emissions legal. They do provide substantial gains, especially when you have a cam or other mods that need a little more exhaust flow. Longtubes or bust is not the best attitude, because when longtubes aren't an option, stock isn't the best alternative

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

Here's a video I just ran downstairs and made, sorry it's on an old 5 mega pixel camera... but still okay quality... http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2...d-9836010309e4

Doesn't look like it's loaded to streetfire yet, the link works, there not done processing the video yet.. give it a few minutes.

SlayerMaro

iTrader: (3)

If you're going to say everyone is wrong, at least have back to back dyno pulls or track passes that YOU did to prove it. I'm skeptical of the numbers that companies claim because they're quite often inflated.

406malibu

what was the reason for going with shorties if you got rid of the cats? do you just have a visual inspection?

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

There are many dyno sheets that prove that shorties are good for some power, they are superior to stock manifolds in design and power capabilities. When longtubes aren't an option, shorties are a great choice. Of course longtubes are better for power, but that doesn't make them the only option or the best option in every situation.

Here is a picture for reference to the differences in two different shorty headers, and the stockers on the bottom. The individual primaries do make a measurable difference. The stock setup is far short of optimal.

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

Slayer, I wouldn't have ever even looked for dyno results or into it very much, but the significant increase it made in power, i can't even explain it. It feels like a completely different car! What i'm trying to get on, sitting in the drivers seat if you will, is that there numbers arn't inflated. Most people say that you can't 'feel' any difference with a 5-15 hp mod on a 350 hp car. What I'm saying is, the second I opened it up for the first time, I actually said "HOLLY $HIT". It was that much of a difference.

And mr 406, I have a hard time throwing away a perfectly good performance part, even if it's not "top of the line" or buying something to fix something that already works. I'm just sharing my experience with everybody. These were on the car when I bought it, I didn't go out and specifically buy them, what I did do is gut the cats last night and add stainless works ory which is a super nice system btw. No banging like the slp - y did, everything fits snug, excellent stainless quality, easy to install. As far as admissions go the place I go to just plugs in, and checks the gas cap. No rollers or visual inspection for me.

I'm just sharing my experience so people that may benefit from this type of mod arn't shyed away by false numbers people thrown out there.

redracer1

iTrader: (2)

JBA's shorty's with Random Tech high flow cats just wait'n for the 50,xxx mark.

thanks for the post.

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

Most people on here could careless for smog, which is why shorties were made for. Granted, if you can't run long tubes but feel like spending over $700, go for it. Most people do not see spending over $700 for ~15rwhp (best scenario) when they can spend under $600 and get ~20rwhp (typical) or more! The fact is, you butt meter is not as calibrated as a real dynamometer, so unless you have a dyno sheet showing your car with before and after results, your driving impression won't fly here. Never trust company dyno sheets, as they are optimized to be a marketing tool to get you to purchase their product.

You said it your self that you wouldn't spend this kind of money on shorties, plus your car already had the shorties. Should you have been in the market for headers, I doubt you would have gone with shorties if you had the option of LTs. Hell, I am in CA and I went with LTs.

AR15 guy

iTrader: (1)

If I ever get another f-body I will probably get Mids personally. I'd like to lower this one.

L3THAL_Z28

iTrader: (5)

LTs F.T.W!!!

brandotron

iTrader: (1)

Good read, but I'll probably just stick with my stock manifolds for now. Seems too pricey and too much of a pain in the *** for not much gain. It would be different if the engine was already on a stand or if I had a lift. ******* California visual inspection!

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

You can get good shorties for $300. The fact is that shorties gain HP, and are still legal. They have their place, and they do give dyno proven results. I prefer longtubes too, but we can't take away from the fact that shorties DO provide gains and they do have a place in the performance world.

SladeX

The thing about shorties is that you have to look at what you had prior to shorty headers.

In the case of a 98-2000 car, you will find some decent gains over stock. Why? It's because of the fact that those headers are LOG STYLE HEADERS.

If you have a 01-02, the gains will be minimal. this is where the whole 1-2HP myth comes. 01-02 exhaust manifolds ARE shorty designs. Not the best design as it's cast, but the general shape and flow resemble shorties.

Now why would someone tout longtubes? Well I DO have dyno sheets comparing the 2. I have one dyno sheet showing 325ft/lb of torque and 306HP, then I have ONLY the exhaust done, Longtubes + true duals with cats and full size mufflers out the back.

That dyno run on the same dyno showed 359ft/lb of torque and 349HP. So while you may have gained 15HP, you could have potentially gained 40HP with longtubes. The price was about $800 for my longtubes so unless emissions are vital to you, I'd keep off the shorties are for everyone bandwagon and take into account which year car and what area someone lives in before indicating we are making huge errors about shorties. It's simply a generalization of something that does have some substantial truth to it, but to keep people from making decisions they regret it's sometimes necessary to push in the longtube direction. It's all because in the end, we've been there and realize that no matter what you do, its NEVER ENOUGH. You will always want more power and you will always want to spend the least amount possible to make that happen.

Finally you state you gutted the cats making the whole keep emissions legal a pointless reason for going shorties in the first place?!? Mind you I've got longtubes and I've tuned it to pass emissions, AIR is still on AND I still use EGR... so I'd only fail a visual, which thankfully I don't have to worry about.

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I said they were already on the car when I bought it, and it was a San Diego car which is why I bought it. I already indicated for that kind of money I would go long tubes because I don't have to pass a visual inspection. This was also not a long tube vs shorty discussion I was starting. I was saying what kind of increases I felt, and what the dyno sheet said. This option won't work for everybody, but for some people in certain areas, it's a great alternative.

Plus they are super easy to work with and install for people who are new to ls1s and want to diy and just dd or street run there car. I'd like to see what I dyno just to be able to share, but other than that, it only matters if you win or lose races, not how much hp you have

Hopefully some people can find this post usefull. I just wanted to also dispel the myth that is all over this site about the 1-2 hp gains.

That is it, may comment if anything else comes up.

Ryan.

2000_SS

iTrader: (24)

did i miss something? if i understood the OP correctly, the car already had the headers...he/she notced the SOTP gains after doing nothing more than gutting the cats, correct? what's that have to do with header gains?

Blackhawk777

So the 98-00 cars have the log manifolds huh?? That's kindof shitty.

406malibu

ah, well i can understand that. id have no problem bolting them on if they were free, esp since im still on stock manifolds i was just curious. they sound good in your vid btw aside from the exhaust leak.

SladeX

This makes no sense anymore... 15hp gain from what then??? You only have dyno results after you gutted the cats and put on a cat back??

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

No sir, the 15 hp is just from replacing the stock mainfolds with the JBA shorties leaving all emission equiptment. If you take it one step further and gut the cats, that's even more power (which I did yesterday). Off to bed, i'll check this at work tomorrow.