Look at my Plugs
04-06-2010, 02:16 PM
#1
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Look at my Plugs Here is a picture of the #1 cylinder spark plug after a 200 shot on the dyno with an a/f in the 10.5 range and 16* timing (-10 from 26 NA tune). That was with the 78N and 41F jets. I had stepped down from the recommended 46F. Had a mix of 91 and 103 in the tank and C14 in the tank. Plugs were NGK BR7EF.
Here is a few pictures of the #7 after a 200 shot on the street for a full 1/4 mile run with a 38F jet and the same timing except run 1, lol. Had 109 in the tank and C14 in the dedicated.
Run #1 was with the n/a tune, lol.(I forgot to flash in the nitrous tune). Fuel pressure at 55PSI in the dedicated:
Run #2 was with nitrous tune(10 degrees less timing). Fuel at 60PSI. Some hesitation:
Run #3 was with nitrous tune again. Fuel at 45PSI. Felt better. New plug in #7 cylinder:
Run #4 nitrous tune again. Fuel at 38PSI. Felt the best. No pic of plug as it was dark out.
Here is a few pictures of the #7 after a 200 shot on the street for a full 1/4 mile run with a 38F jet and only -8 timing except. Had 92/109 in the tank and C14/C16 in the dedicated. A/F was in the 11:1 range throughout the run
Run #1 was with fuel pressure at 40PSI in the dedicated:
BTW, according to the G-Tech we did a 11.00 on that run. When comparing runs from the G-Tech to the slips at the track the actual runs were always .2 higher in the G-Tech.
Have since dropped to a 35F jet and less fp and then a 33F and got down to 11.5 A/F and a 10.9 in the G-Tech with me and the guy helping me tune in the car. Thinking of dropping to a 31F jet and going back up to 58 PSI in the dedicated. Also, I think the timing is to high even though there is no sign of knock in the logs(HPT) or audibly. It looks like the timing mark on the plugs is right at the strap close to the threads.
This is in a 2010 Camaro with forged pistons(10.5 cr) and steel top rings.
Let me know what you guys think I should do about timing and fuel. Want to step it up to a 300 shot once we finish dialing in the 200 shot.
It has been a struggle getting to where it is now with fuel spikes, running really rich on the recommended fuel jets etc. Also forgetting to turn the bottle on and just spraying fuel or not flashing in the nitrous tune(lucky we had race gas in the tank and dedicated.
Here is a few pictures of the #7 after a 200 shot on the street for a full 1/4 mile run with a 38F jet and the same timing except run 1, lol. Had 109 in the tank and C14 in the dedicated.
Run #1 was with the n/a tune, lol.(I forgot to flash in the nitrous tune). Fuel pressure at 55PSI in the dedicated:
Run #2 was with nitrous tune(10 degrees less timing). Fuel at 60PSI. Some hesitation:
Run #3 was with nitrous tune again. Fuel at 45PSI. Felt better. New plug in #7 cylinder:
Run #4 nitrous tune again. Fuel at 38PSI. Felt the best. No pic of plug as it was dark out.
Here is a few pictures of the #7 after a 200 shot on the street for a full 1/4 mile run with a 38F jet and only -8 timing except. Had 92/109 in the tank and C14/C16 in the dedicated. A/F was in the 11:1 range throughout the run
Run #1 was with fuel pressure at 40PSI in the dedicated:
BTW, according to the G-Tech we did a 11.00 on that run. When comparing runs from the G-Tech to the slips at the track the actual runs were always .2 higher in the G-Tech.
Have since dropped to a 35F jet and less fp and then a 33F and got down to 11.5 A/F and a 10.9 in the G-Tech with me and the guy helping me tune in the car. Thinking of dropping to a 31F jet and going back up to 58 PSI in the dedicated. Also, I think the timing is to high even though there is no sign of knock in the logs(HPT) or audibly. It looks like the timing mark on the plugs is right at the strap close to the threads.
This is in a 2010 Camaro with forged pistons(10.5 cr) and steel top rings.
Let me know what you guys think I should do about timing and fuel. Want to step it up to a 300 shot once we finish dialing in the 200 shot.
It has been a struggle getting to where it is now with fuel spikes, running really rich on the recommended fuel jets etc. Also forgetting to turn the bottle on and just spraying fuel or not flashing in the nitrous tune(lucky we had race gas in the tank and dedicated.
Last edited by SRTKLLR; 04-06-2010 at 02:22 PM.
04-06-2010, 03:22 PM
#2
Pull 3-4* of timing and lean it out a little more.
Post pics of that tune up.
May want to go to a #8 plug also it wont hurt anything to have a lil colder plug in there.
Need to cut the plugs at the bottom of the treads to really see the fuel ring on those plugs.
Post pics of that tune up.
May want to go to a #8 plug also it wont hurt anything to have a lil colder plug in there.
Need to cut the plugs at the bottom of the treads to really see the fuel ring on those plugs.
04-06-2010, 03:50 PM
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Not sure on what you mean by post a pic of the tune but here is a pic of the timing from the tune.
As soon as we run out of all the 7's I will get some 8's to try out.
Will cut the threads off the next set of plugs. Was just wanting to get close in the tune so I wouldn't go through so many plugs. The car is in Mexico so it is sometimes hard to get the parts needed.
BTW, here is a video of the 11.32(G-Tech showed 11.49) I did at the track:
Something is off because the 200 shot is giving us less than a second improvement. I do know the tranny does not like that much juice, lol.
All motor it put down something like 440 hp and 450 tq and 640 hp and 811 tq on the spray.
04-06-2010, 04:19 PM
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What type of kit do you have? I'm assuming since you are showing only #7 plug it is the leanest of the bunch.
What are these plugs gapped at?
Cylinder #1 has way too much fuel and not enough timing. Need to drop down about 6 fuel sizes and add 1-2 degrees. That's from the dyno run.
Run 2 looks like it got a little hot and you have some peppering on the porcelain. Most likely from the previous NA tune run. You probably don't wanna do that again haha. Run 3 looks like pretty damn close as far as timing mark is good, but you can't tell the fuel mixture without looking at the bottom of the porcelain. Hard to tell if there was any detonation from the angle of the pic. Wish you could have gotten pics of run 4 that would tell more of the story.
Timing is good I would leave it alone if you have good gas in there. If you want to move up to a 300 then I highly recommend a direct port for distribution.
Just curious what kind of car is this? 2010 camaro?
What are these plugs gapped at?
Cylinder #1 has way too much fuel and not enough timing. Need to drop down about 6 fuel sizes and add 1-2 degrees. That's from the dyno run.
Run 2 looks like it got a little hot and you have some peppering on the porcelain. Most likely from the previous NA tune run. You probably don't wanna do that again haha. Run 3 looks like pretty damn close as far as timing mark is good, but you can't tell the fuel mixture without looking at the bottom of the porcelain. Hard to tell if there was any detonation from the angle of the pic. Wish you could have gotten pics of run 4 that would tell more of the story.
Timing is good I would leave it alone if you have good gas in there. If you want to move up to a 300 then I highly recommend a direct port for distribution.
Just curious what kind of car is this? 2010 camaro?
04-06-2010, 06:18 PM
#5
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What type of kit do you have? I'm assuming since you are showing only #7 plug it is the leanest of the bunch.
What are these plugs gapped at?
Cylinder #1 has way too much fuel and not enough timing. Need to drop down about 6 fuel sizes and add 1-2 degrees. That's from the dyno run.
Run 2 looks like it got a little hot and you have some peppering on the porcelain. Most likely from the previous NA tune run. You probably don't wanna do that again haha. Run 3 looks like pretty damn close as far as timing mark is good, but you can't tell the fuel mixture without looking at the bottom of the porcelain. Hard to tell if there was any detonation from the angle of the pic. Wish you could have gotten pics of run 4 that would tell more of the story.
Timing is good I would leave it alone if you have good gas in there. If you want to move up to a 300 then I highly recommend a direct port for distribution.
Just curious what kind of car is this? 2010 camaro?
What are these plugs gapped at?
Cylinder #1 has way too much fuel and not enough timing. Need to drop down about 6 fuel sizes and add 1-2 degrees. That's from the dyno run.
Run 2 looks like it got a little hot and you have some peppering on the porcelain. Most likely from the previous NA tune run. You probably don't wanna do that again haha. Run 3 looks like pretty damn close as far as timing mark is good, but you can't tell the fuel mixture without looking at the bottom of the porcelain. Hard to tell if there was any detonation from the angle of the pic. Wish you could have gotten pics of run 4 that would tell more of the story.
Timing is good I would leave it alone if you have good gas in there. If you want to move up to a 300 then I highly recommend a direct port for distribution.
Just curious what kind of car is this? 2010 camaro?
The pics show a progression from pig rich in the first pic to 11.5 on the last jet used.
We started with the recommended 46F jet and have slowly worked our way to a 35 or 33(have to check) and need to step down one last time I think or lower the fp more.
What is better a 33F jet with 30 PSI in the fpr or a 31F jet and 58 PSI?
On the last set of pics I added 2 degrees and it looks as if I went backwards so I will pull 4(the 2 I added plus another 2) for a total of -12(26 NA - 12 for nitrous for 14* total).
During the tuning process we also leaned out the NA tune a little. On the dyno they showed 12.8 A/F with the Motec wideband but on a different dyno with a more accurate AFM-1000 it showed 12.1 on the same tune the very next day.
Using the AFM wideband we leaned it out to a 12.5 and it seamed to like it. Any leaner and it did not like it so we left it there.
Where should the A/F be at? 11.8? 12.0? etc. Or just look at the fuel ring on the plugs and let the chips(A/F) fall where they may?
Mods are L99 with forged Wiesco pistons(10.5 cr) with steel top rings, Mast stage II VVT cam, WCCH L92 heads, ProTorque 3000(although it only flashes to 2400), custon mid-length headers(1 3/4" to 3" collector stepped down to a 2 1/2" before the tip), CAI, Nitrous Outlet plate kit with dedicated fuel tank and a NANO kit.
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04-07-2010, 10:38 AM
#8
Every motor acts differently. Dont assume number 7 is going to be your hot cylinder. You shoudl be pulling all 8 until you see signs of a hot cylinder. At the 200hp level you may not see a big differnce from cylinder to cylinder and if that is the case just pulling two spraratic plugs from that point will be fine. As you move up in the horse power level to the 300 you will start pulling all 8 again to see if there is a hot cylinder. If you locate one that is burning differnetly I would suggest pulling that plug and a sparatic other one from that point out.
The coloring on the strap looks ok from what I can see. You need to get a spark plug reader that maginifies so you can see in close detail what the strap looks like.
The color of the plug is looking good ion the easy visual. You are at the point now where you ned to see what the coloring on the base of the porcylyn looks like. That is where the fuel ring is located.
As for the timing mark.. I am having a hard time seeing it on the last plugs in the picture. Looking at the coloring it says you have to much timing in it. But to be honest with you looking at a plug with a naked eye is bad enough with out a magnifies light but looking at a picture is even worse.
Sometimes it takes a few heat cycles to get a new plug to show an accurate timing mark. First look at the coloring and see if you can locate a color change. Then take your thumb and wipe it clean and look for a heat line on the metal. Best way to describe it is as if you took a torch and heated a metal rod. The blueing line on that rod is exactly what you are looking for on the strap.
Dave
The coloring on the strap looks ok from what I can see. You need to get a spark plug reader that maginifies so you can see in close detail what the strap looks like.
The color of the plug is looking good ion the easy visual. You are at the point now where you ned to see what the coloring on the base of the porcylyn looks like. That is where the fuel ring is located.
As for the timing mark.. I am having a hard time seeing it on the last plugs in the picture. Looking at the coloring it says you have to much timing in it. But to be honest with you looking at a plug with a naked eye is bad enough with out a magnifies light but looking at a picture is even worse.
Sometimes it takes a few heat cycles to get a new plug to show an accurate timing mark. First look at the coloring and see if you can locate a color change. Then take your thumb and wipe it clean and look for a heat line on the metal. Best way to describe it is as if you took a torch and heated a metal rod. The blueing line on that rod is exactly what you are looking for on the strap.
Dave
04-09-2010, 12:38 PM
#10
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As far as the fuel goes I am using a dedicated fuel tank with its own fpr so how do I remove 2% fuel. I lower the fuel pressure to remove fuel but how much pressure equals 2%? I was at like 40 PSI on that last pass with the 35F jet. I was going to put the 33F jet in and go back to 58 PSI to test.
Every motor acts differently. Dont assume number 7 is going to be your hot cylinder. You shoudl be pulling all 8 until you see signs of a hot cylinder. At the 200hp level you may not see a big differnce from cylinder to cylinder and if that is the case just pulling two spraratic plugs from that point will be fine. As you move up in the horse power level to the 300 you will start pulling all 8 again to see if there is a hot cylinder. If you locate one that is burning differnetly I would suggest pulling that plug and a sparatic other one from that point out.
The coloring on the strap looks ok from what I can see. You need to get a spark plug reader that maginifies so you can see in close detail what the strap looks like.
The color of the plug is looking good ion the easy visual. You are at the point now where you ned to see what the coloring on the base of the porcylyn looks like. That is where the fuel ring is located.
As for the timing mark.. I am having a hard time seeing it on the last plugs in the picture. Looking at the coloring it says you have to much timing in it. But to be honest with you looking at a plug with a naked eye is bad enough with out a magnifies light but looking at a picture is even worse.
Sometimes it takes a few heat cycles to get a new plug to show an accurate timing mark. First look at the coloring and see if you can locate a color change. Then take your thumb and wipe it clean and look for a heat line on the metal. Best way to describe it is as if you took a torch and heated a metal rod. The blueing line on that rod is exactly what you are looking for on the strap.
Dave
The coloring on the strap looks ok from what I can see. You need to get a spark plug reader that maginifies so you can see in close detail what the strap looks like.
The color of the plug is looking good ion the easy visual. You are at the point now where you ned to see what the coloring on the base of the porcylyn looks like. That is where the fuel ring is located.
As for the timing mark.. I am having a hard time seeing it on the last plugs in the picture. Looking at the coloring it says you have to much timing in it. But to be honest with you looking at a plug with a naked eye is bad enough with out a magnifies light but looking at a picture is even worse.
Sometimes it takes a few heat cycles to get a new plug to show an accurate timing mark. First look at the coloring and see if you can locate a color change. Then take your thumb and wipe it clean and look for a heat line on the metal. Best way to describe it is as if you took a torch and heated a metal rod. The blueing line on that rod is exactly what you are looking for on the strap.
Dave
I pulled the #7 because on the LSx motors that one seems to run the leanest at least that is what I have gathered from reading on here. I will try and pull them all now that I am getting closer to where it should be.
Thanks for all the advice/help guys and keep it coming.
I will post some more plug pics after I refill the nitrous and NANO bottles. Hope there is not to much traffic on the roads so I can do some more testing. Funny how we can get better traction on the street than at the local track.
04-09-2010, 03:55 PM
#11
as far as the fuel goes i am using a dedicated fuel tank with its own fpr so how do i remove 2% fuel. I lower the fuel pressure to remove fuel but how much pressure equals 2%? i was at like 40 psi on that last pass with the 35f jet. I was going to put the 33f jet in and go back to 58 psi to test.
Confused:
Confused:
