For me it's a matter of enjoying driving the car around and keeping it somewhat streetable. I could build my motor for all motor and probably get some really good times out of it, but I wouldn't be able too drive it on the street and i'm not willing too give that up. I am running 3.73's and 28's with the turbo 400 and a very efficient nitrous converter, which keeps me at a decent cruising speed on the highway, but still gives me an all out nasty setup at the track!

 

they both seem to accomplish the same thing to me.

 

Why not put a real powerplant in it...and then spray it

There are lots of ways to do things and people have different opinions on want is good and what they want. These new fangled controllers are here to stay for lots of different reasons.

 

alot different. If you have a 150 off the line and a 200 coming by either rpm or time...well...thats all you have. You will also have two rather large TQ spikes and areas just before those spike that could have made use of additional HP/TQ

If you have a 350 on a controller...you can bring in 150 of the 350 from the get go...or you can bring in 175...or 180..or 200 or whatever. You can aslo then bring the remaining hp linearly. Here is a graph of my interpretation. Dont really pay attention to the #s. Just the peaks and valleys. Youll see over the first 3 seconds the progressive is more capable of delivering more avg HP without exceeding traction.

The same would apply if you were in rpm mode and your goal was to not exceed a certain TQ level so you wouldnt destry engine parts on something like a stock bottom end.

 

Thats one of the best examples i've ever seen.

 

Maybe I didn't have enough coffee yet this morning, but I get rubbed the wrong way with these kind of stupid statements.

This IS the nitrous forum, right?

 

no...I've had plenty of coffee. It's a dumb *** comment.

my .02 on the controller...if you don't want to use a controller than don't. It's a great technology.

 

That's funny how a graph can makes things look perfectly clear on paper, yet it doesn't work the same in the real world.

This is the reason I bought a progressive... it just makes sense in a way. They just don't work like you think they will.
Real world it makes sense to spike torque in certain spots during your run. More area under the curve DOESN'T always give you quickest E.T.
That's a simple fact.

Also in the graph, the torque spikes are misrepresented. The amplitude of the spikes would be higher with the staged system due to the higher delivery pressure during initial activation.

The pulsing of the progressive drops the amplitude across the board.

 

like hugger427 said, if you don't like the controllers then don't use them.

The fact of the matter is that there are controllers on the market today that absolutely will allow a car to put down MORE power SOONER while still maintaining traction when compared to using multiple stages, period. I've seen it on the track, the street, and the dyno. I just don't understand why people seem to just look over this fact , maybe these people don't like computers or maybe they don't fully understand the technology involved.

It doesn't matter if it's on a daily driven, stock bottem end, radial tire car with stock style suspension or a mountain motored, double frame rail, 4 link chassis car on 10.5 tires, a progessive controller will make either car faster than using multiple stages IF the controller AND the car are tuned properly. This point should be proven in 2006 in small tire racing .

Sorry for the rant, JMHO... and MADMAN, you picked a good topic to stir the **** with

 

Madman is the master at this, we are all just grasshoppa's grabbing at our own pebbles.

I'm not a big fan of controllers, but Mike, and dad are running one in the car. I have to admit its growing on me, althought the plan is to get to where you DON'T need it.

I think I could dig up a launch video from HRP a few weeks back where the formula probably laid down its most violent launch yet. Track got loose out past the 330 ( lots of breakage /cleanups earlier ), unfortunately they had a failure in the timing booth, and tower and didn't get any 60' numbers for it. Very low 1.2's have been clockwork, would have loved to seen that 60' So I can't complain about controllers too much.

But you know how it goes...woulda, coulda,shoulda...no slip...don't count.

 

I've noticed that MADMAN has this pretty much down to a science, lol.

Pain- your Formula doesn't happen to be red and run a very large carbed motor with a clear scoop on the carbs does it? If so, that is a bad *** ride. If not, disregard this.

 

the graph was not meant to be exact. It would take some serious datalogging to get a good idea of what the actual peaks and valleys would look like. But hitting an engine with spikes of 200 at each increment will leave areas under those spikes that can be enhanced. The only way to do that is to continue to divide into snaller stages....or use a progressive (which is really just hundreds of stages).

 

Also the spikes are only going to be as high as traction limits them.

 

This thread is about hating on the progressive systems, so some of you guys need to get with the program

I understand the technology completely, it's just that AFAIC the technology isn't delivering what is needed.

For an oldschool carbureted plate system the progressive does the job of killing off power to ensure traction at the launch, but why use one with EFI when it's just as easy to accomplish the same thing in the tune for free?

The problem of killing power down low is easy to handle for free, and the issue of delivering more power up high is solved by staging.

It's a fact that the quickest way down the track is also the hardest on the parts involved. A progessive system is sure easier on parts for obvious reasons, but I'm not going to give it credit for making more power or running quicker times as compared to staging.

So say you have a carbureted car and a high dollar engine that will survive a 400 shot, but you can't hook it. Well first if you can afford an engine of that quality but can't afford to make your car hook, that's a bit sad, but besides the point. A progressive system would indeed solve your traction problem, so yes they have a use. It's still not the quickest way down the track.

I'm still waiting for the technology to catch up to the need for controlling the nitrous in a much more efficient way. IMO controllers are still in the stone ages.

 

No Pains car is a Black Firebird with a LS1 and a few tricks done to the suspension.

 

Thanks MADMAN, I guess I don't even need to ask where the suspension came from

I'll get with the program White2001s10, ALL CONTROLLER SUCK! (with the exception of two, but I'm biased ) You can go much faster with stages that have large torque spikes and that are only 100% on or off, oh and they have to be delayed a little so that you aren't constantly increasing power to the ground as traction provides, yea this is the way to go.........................

................Whoa, what just happened? I think I blacked out for a second

 

But you guys keep saying that a progressive is for cars that cant hook. I have never even though about putting a progressive on a car that cant hook. If you have a motor capable of a 300 shot and it cant hook...well you better be working on the hooking part first.

What I am talking about is...get a car that CAN hook with a 300 off the line, andother 150 one second out and another 150 2 seconds after that. he runs consistant and has no traction issues on that setup. Thats a 600 total he is running. That same person should be able to run faster and apply more avg power down the track by going with the same 300 off the line...and then ramping the additional 300 in the next 3 seconds. If you grapghed it...you would lay down more avg power with the ramp.

Maybe what peaple have needed was something like the "true curve" that FJO/NX has now in thier controllers. Since the actual traction available probably is not linear as drawn in my grapgh. It may well have a curve to it.
I will bet that if some of these guys that race embrace this stuff and understand it they will become faster.

 

Keep an eye on Outlaw 10.5 So I hear,lol.

 

awesome...keep us informed!

 

Alot of you guys are still forgetting about stick cars. The rpm based ramping is invaluable when going thru the gears.