where is the best place for a wet nozzle. i have mine on the side of the throttle body, driverside at about 5 oclock so it doesnt hit the throttle blade. where is everyone else injecting from??

 

In the bellow...

 

Ya mean like this? my 3rd stage.

Robert

 

thought u wanted it a few inches away for distribution?

 

i keep mine about 4-5" away from the throttle blade.. i decided on this because i basically held a nozzle in my vice and hit it with a 1000psi bottle and 40PSi fuel.. and you could see the diff as the fuel atomized(my dad had the killer idea of adding a green dye to the fuel(don;t do this in the car cause it fucked the jet up LOL)) and i felt it better to have this happen outside the throttle body and intake i really don;t see my throttle blade cause much of a disturbance to the flow.. and i know the front 2 cyls are drawing in a completely atomized mixture

Mike

 

That't true in a static format. However, what we are doing is filling the intake, read: plenum, so the mix of nitrous/fuel/air is drawn into each clyinder as needed. Have you ever seen/heard of a #1 or #2 clyinder going, it's actually the rear clyinders that go lean. If this speculation was true, then the new generation of plates would have the same issue.
Robert

 

so are you saying it better to have it closer so the fuel can reach the back cylinders? this doesnt cause the first onces to go lean then because the fuel is being blown past it?

 

No, just stating the lean clyinder issue is more dependent on plenum design rather than nitrous nozzle location. Some are close, some are far away, but you can still go lean on rear cylinders, not the front two.
Robert

 

I say in the intake runners (all 8 of them)

 

how many degrees of timing are you running on the z. what kinda of shot, single or multi stage. 235 hp shot it sweet

 

Yes I have seen one and two go lean.. However this is not the real concern.

The real concern is over powering the back six cylinders. See look at it like this. If the Nozzle is right up on the two front cylinders and the discharge missess the front cylinders you now have the back six taking a mixture that was was jetted for 8 cylinders. This could over power those cylinders causing failure.

This is why when we were studying building a plate it took us over a year to find what we liked. Before our plate every plate on the market was aimed at the back of the intake instead of across the intake throat. I did not like seeing this because on higher hp LT1 and L98 cars we were having customers zaping plugs,hurting pistons etc. After about three different designs we finally found what we were looking for. By breaking our discharge into 5 different discharges instead of one and aiming the discharge across the throat of the intake we got rid of the sporadic cylinder problems.

Dave

 

The dynamics of the plates are different than the nozzles. The reason an intake has a plenum is to fill with a volume. This volume is then distributed to the clyinder on the intake stroke. The volume has to be large enough to address all cly at high rpms. The sole reason why the lsx playform has lean issues with the back couple clyinders is do the dynamics of this process the way the intake is designed by GM ( I can explain). This issue is common to all n/a or power adder engines once you get up in power/rpms. So, the facts support the rear cly lean condition as a design factor straight from the engineers, and not exclusive to nozzle placement on wet kits.
Yea Dave I knew you would claim to have seen the front clyinders go lean on nozzle set-ups, but I call BS.

On the plates, even DTE (first plate manufacture) claims the front cyl lean thing was all internet crap and not a reality. Seems even the new wave plate kits that are not of your design do not have a front lean issue witch further supports the bs fact on this old wive's tale. Everyone has a method for their plate kits, and I see none that have some spectacular engineering that mysterisly out performs the others, actually the opposite. We need a plate shoot out, as I see some interesting patterns with some.
Robert

 

Robert,

Yes I have seen different cylinders run lean. I have seen this from working on more cars than you can count. Not from reading off the internet.

However that was not my point. My point was what I posted. Let me repeat it for you.

Nozzle or plate

The real concern is over powering the back six cylinders. See look at it like this. If the Nozzle is right up on the two front cylinders and the discharge missess the front cylinders you now have the back six taking a mixture that was was jetted for 8 cylinders. This could over power those cylinders causing failure.


Now what I said above is not talking about leaning out certain cylinders. I am talking about missing the front two front cylinders adding more power two the last six than expected. This can even happen with out even affecting the airfuel mixture of the two front cylinders.


And as far as plates. All the ones I have seen after Nitrous Outlet and NOS released there designs all the others have been some form of a knock off of someone elses hard work. BUT HEY SOMEONE HAS TO SET THE MARK FOR THE COPYCATS...

I have made my point. Take it for what its worth.
Maybe you learned something maybe not. Either way Im done in this thread.


Thanks
Dave

 

"More cars than you can count, not off the internet", your implications will not go un checked. Your so full of your self. I was building/racing hot rods more than likely before you were born (read: more real experiance). I was without a shadow of a doubt involved in racing/mechanics before you were born. Your subtle tactics may go undetected by most, but this time I am not looking the other way and playing the nice guy. Please inform us all what car and what nitrous system you running in the 70's, 80's and even the early 90's. You are a newbie to this whole seen if ya really want to talk the way you are. Please take a ego tempering pill, you think to highly of your self. Please take a few basic mechanical courses so your knowledge of plenum dynamics can actually hold your ego up. I've tried my best to play nice with ya, but your cheap little jabs are BS.

Actually if you really want to talk knock offs, yours looks just like the NOS one, how ya like them apples. Now are ya going to say NOS copied you? I would like you to directly show/prove the knock offs you allways claim in an effort to somehow make your's superior, which it is not, period. You claim to be the first and the innovator, bull sh*t, DTE had the idea long before you copied their idea, how ya like them apples. It's too bad everyone wants to kiss your behind instead of telling it like it is, get over your self please.
Robert

 

Ohh no its a whos wennie is bigger contest over a computer. I love those....

Ok so you are older than me... Thank god.... Many people are as Im only 30 nyears old. If you want to talk about knolwedge thats fine. I will be the first to say I still have alot to learn in some areas. I hope to god I never stop learning new things. But dont let the fact that Im only 30 fool you old man.. I have been around the block more than a time or two. I would hate that someone would think that age will determain how smart someone is. As I know some guys in there mid 20s or even teens that are smarter than I..

Im not playing the my____ is bigger than your game. However When I know something I know it. And its not from reading the internet. If I do not know it Ill be the first to say so. Im not above that. I remember the days when you were asking me tech questions and then posting them up later as if you had the answers. Which is fine with me. Im glad I could teach you something. I have people I have to go to for certain things as well. There is always some one more knowledgable.

Now to the DTE plate. That is nothing more than a machined peice of alluminum that bolts between the throttle body and a nozzle screws into it. Kind of like the TNT LT1 plate kit. (Now who was first) Or was NOS or compucar first with there l98 plates with spraybars. (nothing against any of the kits mentioned in this post)

All these disigns were the same in the aspect that the discharge was aimed at the back of the intake.

Now as far as NOS coping us. NO SIR THEY DID NOT. They actually released there plate 2 weeks before we released ours. I remember this because I was heart broken. We had been working with our plate design for a year. We even had a plate on a moderators of this boards GTO months before we released it to the public. We made countless trips to the dyno for testing etc.

So before you can in anyway imply that we may have knocked off NOSs plate wich is completly different than ours other than the fact it sprays across the intake throat. I will correct you.

See It took our machine shop up to 6 weeks to run the first production of our plates once we came up with the final design. Then it had to go to annodizers back to us. Then ship to laser. Now we are 8 weeks out....

See If we were to do like some one else did and just order a NOS plate and build a similiar knock off I we would have alot less money, time, and knowledge involved...

With all that is said. Take it how you will. Im sure you can go on and on for pages with all the free time you have. Babling about what all you have read on the internet or talk about your 3 or 4 stage 10.8 second car.. Blah blah blah.

And I see this post getting worse and worse so I will no longer respond to any post in this post..
I know I said some unkind words as well. Im sorry to everyone that read alone.
IM ALSO SORRY TO YOU ROBERT THAT I HAVE A HARD TIME BITTING MY TUNGE WHEN I KNOW I SHOULD... WE ALL KNOW I SAY WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. SOME LOVEME FOR IT SOME HATE ME FOR IT..I DO NOT BABY STEP AROUND THE FRONT LINE AND BE SOMEONE ELSE ON THE BACK LINE. IM ALL UPFRONT AND HONEST.

Atleast we know how we really feel about each other...
Happy internet reading..
Dave

 

Dave your a real trip. Trying to demean another is your style not mine, as we can all see in your above last two posts. I only called BS on technical facts you were posting. You try to belittle my knowledge and my efforts concerning dry hits/kits, I am sure I am not the only one whom see's this.
As far as asking you or anyone else questions, yes I do still to this day, how can one get insight on all the angles of nitrous any other way. This way when I post facts and/or info it's generally correct, and I hold no information from any body and share freely what I have learned from others and through practical experiance. You started the personal attacks and continue to do so.

You still do not have the courage to come out and say who's plate was copied by who, as you refered again in your last post. This type of garbage is also your style, not mine. You linked to a thread where you claim to be the originator and the innovator, I do not believe this to be true. Imo, it's more like taking an allready established idea and making it better at best. There is also another plate company on the market now. I think your plate is very nice and have actually sent guys your way. You have done a great job nad another option for those in the nitrous world.

As far as how we feel about each other. Man I guess I know how you really feel, and have been a phony for some time? I have no ill feelings towards you. Just because we have a few words means nothing in the long run to me. I once was told that when you have a problem with someone, and then he next day or so it's no big deal, then you know you have a friend. We have been down this road before, and I at least have not carried any ill feelings in the long run. Maybe look at the little subtle jabs you do, and it prob would not get this far. So for my part I am sorry, but sometimes the said jabs get to me.

The internet is a vast base to aquire knowledge on any subject for any that wish. Your implication that this is some how less than desirable is a slap in the face to all who post on this site. You seem to indicate that you have not got any additional info from the web, I call BS.

By the way, my 10.85 on a stock longblock ls6/m12 with a 2 stage dry, holds the World Record for any power adder, blowers, turbo's, any nitrous. Why don't you try and better that with your dual stage plate rather than trying to belittle my efforts.
Have a good day, and as allways, it's nothing personal.
Robert

 

imformation read is imformation said

 

OK, at the risk of getting into the middle of a finger pointing and peter pulling contest...

I'm a new Nitrous user, and I've been reading these info / opinion threads for the last 8 months now with great interest; I want to do things 'right' and not create a big boom in hopes of getting into the 12s (or 11s, 10s, etc..).

So, a couple of months ago, I called Dave's shop with a number of questions, and he (Dave himself) answered each one, told me the pros and cons of the various different set ups (wet / dry / plate / port / 75 HP / 150 HP / stock bottom / forged / etc...) and didn't get off the phone till I had exhausted my entire list of questions. He never spoke down to me, or acted too busy for my follow up questions. Even though I had not spent a dime at his shop, he was willing to help me make the best decision possible.

In fact, he told me that untill I resolved my traction problems, Nitrous would just add to that problem. Though it (Nitrous) might help "up top" he stated that most races were won by the first 60 feet, so he suggested that I not purchase a kit but rather fix my suspension set up first!

That, in my book, speaks volumes.

I don't know Robert, so I cannot say anything good or bad, but I can say that Dave sure treated me like a (well) paying customer, even before I spent any $$$, then (per HIS suggestion!) sent me away from his shop w/o making a Nitrous sale.

Robert may be a good guy, but when I purchase my LT1 125 HP wet plate kit with a progressive controller, it'll be from Dave's shop.

MLE

 

At the risk...so rear cyl go lean...no enough to the rear...can't the mixture blow right past the front runners causing them to go lean too?? Sure they can.

 

Wet or dry.....