The New HSW Interface Air to Fuel & Timing Controller
Haha...see...I wasnt crazy.
So the second question...if you are racing in an ambient condition that already had 2 degrees taken out of the stock program...how can you still get 3-4 degrees of timing pull which will exceed whats available in the stock table?
Thats all I am getting at...lol. I think its more a communication issue between us.
Now obviously the BOMB for this unit is to go ahead and get your IAT tables programmed so that you have a ton of available retard.
Im sorry if it appears I am nitpicking. But there is gonna be that one guy out there that wants 10-15 degrees of timing pulled and does NOT want to pay a programmer. That guy would not be happy. So thats where this was coming from.
So the second question...if you are racing in an ambient condition that already had 2 degrees taken out of the stock program...how can you still get 3-4 degrees of timing pull which will exceed whats available in the stock table?
Thats all I am getting at...lol. I think its more a communication issue between us.
Now obviously the BOMB for this unit is to go ahead and get your IAT tables programmed so that you have a ton of available retard.
Im sorry if it appears I am nitpicking. But there is gonna be that one guy out there that wants 10-15 degrees of timing pulled and does NOT want to pay a programmer. That guy would not be happy. So thats where this was coming from.
Last edited by 383LQ4SS; Jan 11, 2008 at 03:51 PM.
so the lower the iat the less or more timing? more right?
when you spray n20 dosent the iat go lower? i guess only if your spraying in the lid.
or when you arm the system and the interface reads the iat and turns it in to its own and that iat is what pulls timing because the coumputer thinks it hotter out then it relly is
when you spray n20 dosent the iat go lower? i guess only if your spraying in the lid.
or when you arm the system and the interface reads the iat and turns it in to its own and that iat is what pulls timing because the coumputer thinks it hotter out then it relly is
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FormerVendor
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From: Glenolden, PA
If it's hot enough to pull out 2 degrees and the Interface is triggered and set to pull 4 degrees, then you will still pull 4 degress as you are targeting a different portion of the table when the Interface is triggered. That is as clear as I can explain it to you.
If there is a application that requires 15 degrees of timing to be pulled a very large shot is being used. If that is the case just slapping someting on and retarding 15 degrees is not going to cut it, at that point if the user does not want to do a tune then I'm afraid the motor is not going to survive for very long.
Matt
So the second question...if you are racing in an ambient condition that already had 2 degrees taken out of the stock program...how can you still get 3-4 degrees of timing pull which will exceed whats available in the stock table?
Thats all I am getting at...lol. I think its more a communication issue between us.
Thats all I am getting at...lol. I think its more a communication issue between us.
If there is a application that requires 15 degrees of timing to be pulled a very large shot is being used. If that is the case just slapping someting on and retarding 15 degrees is not going to cut it, at that point if the user does not want to do a tune then I'm afraid the motor is not going to survive for very long.
Matt
Now obviously the BOMB for this unit is to go ahead and get your IAT tables programmed so that you have a ton of available retard.
Im sorry if it appears I am nitpicking. But there is gonna be that one guy out there that wants 10-15 degrees of timing pulled and does NOT want to pay a programmer. That guy would not be happy. So thats where this was coming from.
Im sorry if it appears I am nitpicking. But there is gonna be that one guy out there that wants 10-15 degrees of timing pulled and does NOT want to pay a programmer. That guy would not be happy. So thats where this was coming from.
If it's hot enough to pull out 2 degrees and the Interface is triggered and set to pull 4 degrees, then you will still pull 4 degress as you are targeting a different portion of the table when the Interface is triggered. That is as clear as I can explain it to you.
for a total of 6*?
for a total of 6*?
Thread Starter
FormerVendor
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From: Glenolden, PA
If you were using one of the 5 wire MAF sensors that have the IAT integrated in them, yes, when the N2O activates the IAT would go down, and if it's a LS2 (or any other vehicle that adds timing in the lower temps) you will start to add timing in. You have it correct at the end.
Matt
Matt
so the lower the iat the less or more timing? more right?
when you spray n20 dosent the iat go lower? i guess only if your spraying in the lid.
or when you arm the system and the interface reads the iat and turns it in to its own and that iat is what pulls timing because the coumputer thinks it hotter out then it relly is
when you spray n20 dosent the iat go lower? i guess only if your spraying in the lid.
or when you arm the system and the interface reads the iat and turns it in to its own and that iat is what pulls timing because the coumputer thinks it hotter out then it relly is
He has a day job, building his Z06 up, setting up my new web site and mucho more, lol.
Anyway, it's really simple. Here is how to pull what ever you want and it won't effect your n/a tune. In my pic below I have 158* Intake Air Temp selected. We can change the entire column to a set value, all say 14*, or we can taylor a custom timing curve for those that are ready for more advanced tuning and understand what g/Cyl is and how to convert it to more usable data (math for converting g/cly to other measurements in my web).
Now how does this work. Simple, with directions included with the Interface, you set some dip switches, or a certain combo of dip switches to automatically hit your chosen temp, and the timing pull you want. Now every time you spray, auto timing pull that will not effect n/a timing.
I was asked is this like the resistor trick of past. Well, and if I am wrong Matt please correct, the resistor trick was based upon a set value resistor which is analog, the Interface is digital and thus much more versatile.
Hope this makes some sense. You guys can get some insight on this stuff looking at my timing pull write up.
This is a screen shot of my personal Z06 and all info is mine and mine alone. Meaning, no one is whispering in my ear, lol.
Edit: See post #154, where I show what changes were made to pull 14° or was it 12°.
Robert
Anyway, it's really simple. Here is how to pull what ever you want and it won't effect your n/a tune. In my pic below I have 158* Intake Air Temp selected. We can change the entire column to a set value, all say 14*, or we can taylor a custom timing curve for those that are ready for more advanced tuning and understand what g/Cyl is and how to convert it to more usable data (math for converting g/cly to other measurements in my web).
Now how does this work. Simple, with directions included with the Interface, you set some dip switches, or a certain combo of dip switches to automatically hit your chosen temp, and the timing pull you want. Now every time you spray, auto timing pull that will not effect n/a timing.
I was asked is this like the resistor trick of past. Well, and if I am wrong Matt please correct, the resistor trick was based upon a set value resistor which is analog, the Interface is digital and thus much more versatile.
Hope this makes some sense. You guys can get some insight on this stuff looking at my timing pull write up.
This is a screen shot of my personal Z06 and all info is mine and mine alone. Meaning, no one is whispering in my ear, lol.
Edit: See post #154, where I show what changes were made to pull 14° or was it 12°.
Robert
Last edited by Robert56; Apr 27, 2008 at 06:08 PM.
Robert...I fully understand what happens when you use HP tuners or some other software to change the parameters. My questions ( and you may want to read them) are dealing with a stock untuned setup.
As per the table you posted above...if that is a stock table for your Z06...GM provides a MAX of 5 degrees of timing retard under various conditions. So if you didnt have your PCM tuned...or buy HP tuners...5 degrees would be the MAX the interface could retard timing. F body I think is 3 or 4.
Ok...now...if you are at the track on a hot day and the IAT is already at 113...its already pulling 1 degree via the computer. If you ran an NA pass down the track...the computer would pull that 1 degree. So if you used the interface to try to pull 5 at that point your only gonna get 4 when the nitrous is activated and the interface increases temps. If the PCM is already operating in the cells thats pulling 1 degree..your not gonna get another 5. That would be 6 total when the PCM only has 5 to give on a stock tune.
This is why i say on my F body i would only get 1-2 on a very hot day over what i would see NA on that same very hot day on back to back passes. Knowing where the stock tune begins to pull its own timing relative to IAT would be an important fact to know as well if you operate in a hotter area. I dont think all LS1s start pulling timig at 113. If there are some that pull it at a lesser IAT then that could reduce the amount of retard available.
The reason I am nitpicking this is because this is VERY different than a TT type of deal with a CPS. In order to get any serious timing retard out of the interface you are going to have to get your PCM tuned.. And if your operating in hot weather you may not get the timing you think you are.
I was getting the feeling reading this thread that people where thinking they could just buy the interface to use for Timing retard without doing a custom HP tuners tune. You can get timing retard...but it looks like 3-4 degrees for an Fbody and 5 degrees for a Z06...and various other parameters for other cars.
As per the table you posted above...if that is a stock table for your Z06...GM provides a MAX of 5 degrees of timing retard under various conditions. So if you didnt have your PCM tuned...or buy HP tuners...5 degrees would be the MAX the interface could retard timing. F body I think is 3 or 4.
Ok...now...if you are at the track on a hot day and the IAT is already at 113...its already pulling 1 degree via the computer. If you ran an NA pass down the track...the computer would pull that 1 degree. So if you used the interface to try to pull 5 at that point your only gonna get 4 when the nitrous is activated and the interface increases temps. If the PCM is already operating in the cells thats pulling 1 degree..your not gonna get another 5. That would be 6 total when the PCM only has 5 to give on a stock tune.
This is why i say on my F body i would only get 1-2 on a very hot day over what i would see NA on that same very hot day on back to back passes. Knowing where the stock tune begins to pull its own timing relative to IAT would be an important fact to know as well if you operate in a hotter area. I dont think all LS1s start pulling timig at 113. If there are some that pull it at a lesser IAT then that could reduce the amount of retard available.
The reason I am nitpicking this is because this is VERY different than a TT type of deal with a CPS. In order to get any serious timing retard out of the interface you are going to have to get your PCM tuned.. And if your operating in hot weather you may not get the timing you think you are.
I was getting the feeling reading this thread that people where thinking they could just buy the interface to use for Timing retard without doing a custom HP tuners tune. You can get timing retard...but it looks like 3-4 degrees for an Fbody and 5 degrees for a Z06...and various other parameters for other cars.
Last edited by 383LQ4SS; Jan 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM.
Robert...I fully understand what happens when you use HP tuners or some other software to change the parameters. My questions ( and you may want to read them) are dealing with a stock untuned setup.
As per the table you posted above...if that is a stock table for your Z06...GM provides a MAX of 5 degrees of timing retard under various conditions. So if you didnt have your PCM tuned...or buy HP tuners...5 degrees would be the MAX the interface could retard timing. F body I think is 3 or 4.
Ok...now...if you are at the track on a hot day and the IAT is already at 113...its already pulling 1 degree via the computer. If you ran an NA pass down the track...the computer would pull that 1 degree. So if you used the interface to try to pull 5 at that point your only gonna get 4 when the nitrous is activated and the interface increases temps. If the PCM is already operating in the cells thats pulling 1 degree..your not gonna get another 5. That would be 6 total when the PCM only has 5 to give on a stock tune.
This is why i say on my F body i would only get 1-2 on a very hot day over what i would see NA on that same very hot day on back to back passes.
The reason I am nitpicking this is because this is VERY different than a TT type of deal with a CPS. In order to get any serious timing retard out of the interface you are going to have to get your PCM tuned.. And if your operating in hot weather you may not get the timing you think you are.
I was getting the feeling reading this thread that people where thinking they could just buy the interface to use for Timing retard without doing a custom HP tuners tune. You can get timing retard...but it looks like 3-4 degrees for an Fbody and 5 degrees for a Z06...and various other parameters for other cars.
As per the table you posted above...if that is a stock table for your Z06...GM provides a MAX of 5 degrees of timing retard under various conditions. So if you didnt have your PCM tuned...or buy HP tuners...5 degrees would be the MAX the interface could retard timing. F body I think is 3 or 4.
Ok...now...if you are at the track on a hot day and the IAT is already at 113...its already pulling 1 degree via the computer. If you ran an NA pass down the track...the computer would pull that 1 degree. So if you used the interface to try to pull 5 at that point your only gonna get 4 when the nitrous is activated and the interface increases temps. If the PCM is already operating in the cells thats pulling 1 degree..your not gonna get another 5. That would be 6 total when the PCM only has 5 to give on a stock tune.
This is why i say on my F body i would only get 1-2 on a very hot day over what i would see NA on that same very hot day on back to back passes.
The reason I am nitpicking this is because this is VERY different than a TT type of deal with a CPS. In order to get any serious timing retard out of the interface you are going to have to get your PCM tuned.. And if your operating in hot weather you may not get the timing you think you are.
I was getting the feeling reading this thread that people where thinking they could just buy the interface to use for Timing retard without doing a custom HP tuners tune. You can get timing retard...but it looks like 3-4 degrees for an Fbody and 5 degrees for a Z06...and various other parameters for other cars.
Robert
What you say is correct, what I was putting out was for those that want more. I am going to do a write up of what we find, and want to include all the stock look up tables. Then, according to HSW's instructions, you could look at what temp you want to target, and this without a tuner program. Then you could see exactly what and when stock table timing is being pulled. Yes, the older cars are more limited with out going into tune. But as has been mentioned, if your going big enough to have say 8 to 10° pulled, you'll be in the tune any way for injector scaling. Anyone can do this tuner change as per above. Another point to be made for custom tuning, you can select a few different temp columns to change for different timing, why, well for us guys running multi stage may want to run one stage or 2nd and 3rd stage and we just change the dip switches for a preset timing curve without a tuner program. The potential is unlimited (multi stage controller coming) and much to be done before true limits are found.
Robert
Robert
Its all just details...but semi important ones IMO for certain people out there. The more info the better and that is what Tech is all about.
Now that we are clear...I am done.
This is basically what I have been asking since the begining of this thread. I dont know why all the run around? I was basically called stupid and told I didnt know what the hell I was talking about ...but I was correct from the get go.
Its all just details...but semi important ones IMO for certain people out there. The more info the better and that is what Tech is all about.
Now that we are clear...I am done.
Its all just details...but semi important ones IMO for certain people out there. The more info the better and that is what Tech is all about.
Now that we are clear...I am done.
Robert
Last edited by Robert56; Jan 12, 2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Change 7° to 11°, thanks Nick
Come on, you'll never be done in your quest for knowledge, lol. Seems the new LS2s can do about 7° from the get go, and you know more and more of em around, and the Z06 is limited to 5° from the get go, so not all are limited to a few degrees, if you know what temp to plug in with the dip switches and thus the need for stock look up tables to be available. Then we now have the LS3, but don't know the timing IAT table yet. How's the car coming?
Robert
Robert
So if you have an LS2 and buy and interface you can get up to 7 degrees depending on where in the IAT table it begins to pull timing due to ambiant temps. Dont you think thats semi important to know so people dont go trying to retard more timing than they can actually get with out doing a custom tune?
My car? Which one...lol. I just bought B4C for $4995 with a built tranny, stall, longtubes, lid and exhaust. Has 177k on it but oil pressure is still 65 at cold start and 35-40 at hot idle. Im gonna spray the **** out of it anyways.
Of course the nitrous is going on right now along with a wideband. Just making a dialy driver/occasional track car. Was in the garage all day. Anyways...thats for another thread.
Great info. See...its THAT kind of info that is important. LS2 gets up to 7 degrees Z06...5 degrees etc etc. Thats damn important stuff dont you think?
So if you have an LS2 and buy and interface you can get up to 7 degrees depending on where in the IAT table it begins to pull timing due to ambiant temps. Dont you think thats semi important to know so people dont go trying to retard more timing than they can actually get with out doing a custom tune?
Yes, now remember this is a new product and directions may need some additional info IE: stock timing tables for various cars. Also, for those reading along, I am not a spokesman for HSW, just a product user, so what i say could be off and what the HSW guys ultimately say is what we need to follow. I have a 2001 LS1 table in front of me, it will pull 3° if you go to any temp above 122°, and certain areas, like low air flow heavy load will pull up to 7°, so seeing the tables is important.There is 15 differnt emps the dip switches can access.
My car? Which one...lol. I just bought B4C for $4995 with a built tranny, stall, longtubes, lid and exhaust. Has 177k on it but oil pressure is still 65 at cold start and 35-40 at hot idle. Im gonna spray the **** out of it anyways.
Of course the nitrous is going on right now along with a wideband. Just making a dialy driver/occasional track car. Was in the garage all day. Anyways...thats for another thread.
Sounds good, yea mine is all tore apart and on stands currently, lol, it never ends.
So if you have an LS2 and buy and interface you can get up to 7 degrees depending on where in the IAT table it begins to pull timing due to ambiant temps. Dont you think thats semi important to know so people dont go trying to retard more timing than they can actually get with out doing a custom tune?
Yes, now remember this is a new product and directions may need some additional info IE: stock timing tables for various cars. Also, for those reading along, I am not a spokesman for HSW, just a product user, so what i say could be off and what the HSW guys ultimately say is what we need to follow. I have a 2001 LS1 table in front of me, it will pull 3° if you go to any temp above 122°, and certain areas, like low air flow heavy load will pull up to 7°, so seeing the tables is important.There is 15 differnt emps the dip switches can access.
My car? Which one...lol. I just bought B4C for $4995 with a built tranny, stall, longtubes, lid and exhaust. Has 177k on it but oil pressure is still 65 at cold start and 35-40 at hot idle. Im gonna spray the **** out of it anyways.
Of course the nitrous is going on right now along with a wideband. Just making a dialy driver/occasional track car. Was in the garage all day. Anyways...thats for another thread.
Sounds good, yea mine is all tore apart and on stands currently, lol, it never ends.
Again Robert...excellent info. Now I think we are getting somewhere!
As far as instructions being updated...maybe a good idea. Thats what the DISCUSSION IS FOR. Thats why we have LS1TECH!
If I wasnt such an "*******" and a detail freak we probably would not be discussing this. And I do consider knowing that your only gonna get 3 degrees on an F body semi important information...especially if you were hoping fopr 6-8 or something higher. Recipe for disaster there over lack of detail.
I hope all you HSW guys can see where I am coming from here now??
As far as instructions being updated...maybe a good idea. Thats what the DISCUSSION IS FOR. Thats why we have LS1TECH!
If I wasnt such an "*******" and a detail freak we probably would not be discussing this. And I do consider knowing that your only gonna get 3 degrees on an F body semi important information...especially if you were hoping fopr 6-8 or something higher. Recipe for disaster there over lack of detail.
I hope all you HSW guys can see where I am coming from here now??
so if you cab only pull 3-4 degrees of timing on the f-body what kind of shot are we looking at spraying safely. I would guess it would be safe for anyting under 150, but above you could have some problems, or am I just reading this wrong.
No no...3-4 degrees is better than a poke in the eye. IMO you can spray quite a bit still as long as everything is setup right. atleast 150. Hell..guys spray 150 all the time with no timing pulled. The only reason its important to know that 3-4 degrees is max for an F bod is if you where going to buy this strictly for timing retard and spray a large wet shot (200-300) or maybe dual stage dry/wet or something like that and wanted to avoid going to a tuner or buying HP tuners.
The LS2 guys apparently have it made with 7 degrees of retard available. that will get you pretty darn far without even having the IAT tables modded.
You guys reading this dont get me wrong here. I am not dismissing this product or saying you sholdnt buy it. Its an AWESOME little gadget for sure and the price is fantastic. I think they probably could have charged $249 and probably still sold a ton.
My main bitch was just getting some of the important details was like pulling teeth. Thats all.
The LS2 guys apparently have it made with 7 degrees of retard available. that will get you pretty darn far without even having the IAT tables modded.
You guys reading this dont get me wrong here. I am not dismissing this product or saying you sholdnt buy it. Its an AWESOME little gadget for sure and the price is fantastic. I think they probably could have charged $249 and probably still sold a ton.
My main bitch was just getting some of the important details was like pulling teeth. Thats all.
Look Al, I'm not going to argue with you but please re-read this entire thread. Your questions have been answered before. And at no point do we call you stupid or pull your teeth. If you feel that way, I'm certainly sorry for that! It was never my intention to do so... But when the question you seek has been answered multiple times it becomes very frustrating to say the least to sit down and repeat it over and over. If you wanted a table as to the max timing pulled (on stock table) for every application the Interface works on, why didn't you just ask that? I'm sorry but, I cannot read your mind and answer it for you. Regardless, I'm happy that you finally recieved the answer you were looking for, but just so we're on the same page, here are all of the posts Matt made answering your questions.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=28
Matt states, the factory table is more than adequate for most applications, but if you need more timing pulled you can modify the table.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=36
Matt answered your question in the first sentence, no? You asked, So if you want more than 4 degrees or whatever is in the factory table, will you need tuning from something like HP tuners? Matt replied, Yes correct.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=103
Matt re-itterates what was said above to another poster.
I agree that all of this is important to the end user, and that is exactly why Matt answered it the first go around. I'm sorry if you even take offence to this post, but I mean when you say we dodge peoples questions and reply with short answers I take offence to that. Especially when your questions have been answered and if they weren't answered to your satisfaction, perhaps the question asked was not sufficient to provide the answer you were looking for! And let me be clear, in no way does that mean I'm calling you stupid. I appreciate your support on this product to its fullest and again my apologies. And now that you seem satisfied in your quest maybe all of this drama can end?
Nick
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=28
Matt states, the factory table is more than adequate for most applications, but if you need more timing pulled you can modify the table.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=36
Matt answered your question in the first sentence, no? You asked, So if you want more than 4 degrees or whatever is in the factory table, will you need tuning from something like HP tuners? Matt replied, Yes correct.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=103
Matt re-itterates what was said above to another poster.
I agree that all of this is important to the end user, and that is exactly why Matt answered it the first go around. I'm sorry if you even take offence to this post, but I mean when you say we dodge peoples questions and reply with short answers I take offence to that. Especially when your questions have been answered and if they weren't answered to your satisfaction, perhaps the question asked was not sufficient to provide the answer you were looking for! And let me be clear, in no way does that mean I'm calling you stupid. I appreciate your support on this product to its fullest and again my apologies. And now that you seem satisfied in your quest maybe all of this drama can end?
Nick
No no...3-4 degrees is better than a poke in the eye. IMO you can spray quite a bit still as long as everything is setup right. atleast 150. Hell..guys spray 150 all the time with no timing pulled. The only reason its important to know that 3-4 degrees is max for an F bod is if you where going to buy this strictly for timing retard and spray a large wet shot (200-300) or maybe dual stage dry/wet or something like that and wanted to avoid going to a tuner or buying HP tuners.
The LS2 guys apparently have it made with 7 degrees of retard available. that will get you pretty darn far without even having the IAT tables modded.
You guys reading this dont get me wrong here. I am not dismissing this product or saying you sholdnt buy it. Its an AWESOME little gadget for sure and the price is fantastic. I think they probably could have charged $249 and probably still sold a ton.
My main bitch was just getting some of the important details was like pulling teeth. Thats all.
The LS2 guys apparently have it made with 7 degrees of retard available. that will get you pretty darn far without even having the IAT tables modded.
You guys reading this dont get me wrong here. I am not dismissing this product or saying you sholdnt buy it. Its an AWESOME little gadget for sure and the price is fantastic. I think they probably could have charged $249 and probably still sold a ton.
My main bitch was just getting some of the important details was like pulling teeth. Thats all.
