Just Got DynoSim . . .
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From: Wichita, Ks
Just Got DynoSim . . . and I like it. I think that it will be an excellent tool in planning further changes to my LQ4. I'm thinking about stroking to 408 CID/different cam and Head package, etc. I want more torque across the band for daily driving and towing my 8,500 pound trailer.
One thing that is apparent, if the DynoSim modeling is correct. That is that the LS1/LS6 intake manifold design (even the FAST version) doesn't compare well against the standard torquer type manifolds for the older carbureted engines.
Has anyone else run up against this?
Is anyone else using DynoSim?
One thing that is apparent, if the DynoSim modeling is correct. That is that the LS1/LS6 intake manifold design (even the FAST version) doesn't compare well against the standard torquer type manifolds for the older carbureted engines.
Has anyone else run up against this?
Is anyone else using DynoSim?
i've got the demo. i use it to just mess around with different cam setups. jus dont forget that the output is only as good as the input. and engine analyzer 3.0 is a better program. alot more indepth and accurate i believe then dynosim and desktop dyno.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Native Texan
I have had Engine Analyzer for several years and it has always been the most accurate of the entry level simulation programs out there. I had a chance to compare it to Dynomation and Engine Analyzer was much more accurate. The reason I like Sims is to get an quick idea of where I need to go with a certain combo.The best program that you could buy though it Engine Analyzer Pro, but it does get very in depth.
One thing to keep in mind is that you should not use the program to get exact hp figures but rather to quantify results from changes. Lets say that the program shows that you are making 330 hp when in reality you make 350. Then you install a cam and gain 50 hp. The program may show 380 hp when you are actually making more like 400 because of the difference in the power you started with. At least this is the case with Engine Analyzer.
Also the programs cannot decipher if you screw up. Like putting a tunnel ram with twin dominators on a stock 350 ci smallblock. The program will show gains but in reality you would do good to get it to run. Make sure and match you parts and you will be able to use it as a tool.....but it is a tool not a substitute for knowledge.
One last thing. The LS1 heads were designed to be run with a dry flow intake. The notch at the top of the intake port is where the injector is located. The reason I point this out is that if you use a wet flow intake like a torquer the program cannot take this into account.
Later,
Bart
One thing to keep in mind is that you should not use the program to get exact hp figures but rather to quantify results from changes. Lets say that the program shows that you are making 330 hp when in reality you make 350. Then you install a cam and gain 50 hp. The program may show 380 hp when you are actually making more like 400 because of the difference in the power you started with. At least this is the case with Engine Analyzer.
Also the programs cannot decipher if you screw up. Like putting a tunnel ram with twin dominators on a stock 350 ci smallblock. The program will show gains but in reality you would do good to get it to run. Make sure and match you parts and you will be able to use it as a tool.....but it is a tool not a substitute for knowledge.
One last thing. The LS1 heads were designed to be run with a dry flow intake. The notch at the top of the intake port is where the injector is located. The reason I point this out is that if you use a wet flow intake like a torquer the program cannot take this into account.
Later,
Bart
I've got the older Dyno2003 & 2000, but the changes in DynoSim weren't worth paying for the upgrade. Compare the results of the LS1/LS6 HP Runner mods to the LS1/LS6 Composite manifold and the results are nothing like what people are posting. The Runner Mods manifold was supposedly taken from the LSX manifold before it was released by FAST. Did you get the ProTools activation?
Too bad I couldn't find a used EA or EAP. How do they handle updates?
Too bad I couldn't find a used EA or EAP. How do they handle updates?
Last edited by JimMueller; Mar 29, 2004 at 04:25 PM.
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From: Wichita, Ks
No, I didn't get the Pro Tools activation. It's really been interesting on the iterator. I'm looking to replace my cam with one that will make more torque from 1,500 to 4,000 and I've been able to learn a lot about LSA, duration, lift, etc. just by running the program. Have you seen any documented results (dyno, before and after) regarding the FAST intake manifold. I have done a little searching, and I found nothing. I agree, the modeling for the LS1/LS6 versus the FAST manifold shows virtually no gain.
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The iterator always seems to end up with some massive split to get the most of a cam...something like a 195/226, etc. I'd like the iterator to have a restriction on the duration and/or be able to save lobes from a master catalog and have it iterate those. It's not modeling the difference in the type of lifter (solid vs. hydraulic, etc). The older versions did model it, but the older versions didn't model rod ratio either.
The last version of DD2003 I have had a significant modeling difference between the LS1/LS6 intake and the 'LS1/LS6 HP Runner/Mods' manifold. Down low it was the same, but it woke up around 5500RPM and added a good 20-30HP above 6000. Not what the real world is showing.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/131732-all-lsx-results-here.html
The last version of DD2003 I have had a significant modeling difference between the LS1/LS6 intake and the 'LS1/LS6 HP Runner/Mods' manifold. Down low it was the same, but it woke up around 5500RPM and added a good 20-30HP above 6000. Not what the real world is showing.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/131732-all-lsx-results-here.html
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I've been using Engine Analyzer, Engine Analyzer Pro for about 6 years now and recently purchased Dynosim v4.05 (updated to v4.11) to compare. The most important part of any of these programs is the accuracy and quality of the inputs. Engine Analyzer is a more accurate and intuititive tool, but Dynosim has some very useful features that EAP doesn't have.
Does anyone have the runner dimensions, and plenum volume of the FAST intakes? I found them for the LS1/6 intakes but can't find them for the FAST.
Does anyone have the runner dimensions, and plenum volume of the FAST intakes? I found them for the LS1/6 intakes but can't find them for the FAST.
What are the runner dimensions for the LS1/6 manifolds? I too use EA Pro v3.2 and would like to have that info.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Originally Posted by 405HP_Z06
I've been using Engine Analyzer, Engine Analyzer Pro for about 6 years now and recently purchased Dynosim v4.05 (updated to v4.11) to compare. The most important part of any of these programs is the accuracy and quality of the inputs. Engine Analyzer is a more accurate and intuititive tool, but Dynosim has some very useful features that EAP doesn't have.
Does anyone have the runner dimensions, and plenum volume of the FAST intakes? I found them for the LS1/6 intakes but can't find them for the FAST.
Does anyone have the runner dimensions, and plenum volume of the FAST intakes? I found them for the LS1/6 intakes but can't find them for the FAST.
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,983
Likes: 13
From: Texas
Originally Posted by VortechC5
What are the runner dimensions for the LS1/6 manifolds? I too use EA Pro v3.2 and would like to have that info.
Thanks.
Thanks.
LSX: 396ci plenum volume, 15" tapered runners
LS6: 317ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LS1: 275ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
I have EA Pro, and I have beentrying to get an ACCURATE model. It shows the motor peaking and falling off way before it does, and it show peak HP in the wrong place. I know other folks who have had the same issue. Maybe we should all put together the engine data we are using and make sure we are all accurate.
For instance, on my model it shows the g5x3 power sinking like a stone after 5500 rpm. FWHP is off by about 100HP
Originally Posted by J-Rod
From this site.
LSX: 396ci plenum volume, 15" tapered runners
LS6: 317ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LS1: 275ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
I have EA Pro, and I have beentrying to get an ACCURATE model. It shows the motor peaking and falling off way before it does, and it show peak HP in the wrong place. I know other folks who have had the same issue. Maybe we should all put together the engine data we are using and make sure we are all accurate.
For instance, on my model it shows the g5x3 power sinking like a stone after 5500 rpm. FWHP is off by about 100HP
LSX: 396ci plenum volume, 15" tapered runners
LS6: 317ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LS1: 275ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
I have EA Pro, and I have beentrying to get an ACCURATE model. It shows the motor peaking and falling off way before it does, and it show peak HP in the wrong place. I know other folks who have had the same issue. Maybe we should all put together the engine data we are using and make sure we are all accurate.
For instance, on my model it shows the g5x3 power sinking like a stone after 5500 rpm. FWHP is off by about 100HP
Originally Posted by VortechC5
What are the runner dimensions for the LS1/6 manifolds? I too use EA Pro v3.2 and would like to have that info.
Thanks.
Thanks.
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,983
Likes: 13
From: Texas
Originally Posted by 405HP_Z06
Thanks for the info J-Rod! Do you know the degree of taper for the LSX intake and what 'Runner Dia @ Head' are you using the three intakes. I'm using 2.02 for the LS1 and LS6.
I was actually looking at this the other day. I took the LxW of the intake port (area=l x w). and calculated the area of a rectangle. Then I was going to "back" into the area of a circle (a = pi X r^2), and come up with "diameter" from that(a / pi = r^2) then (sqrt of r^2 = r) then (r x 2 = D). I was about halfway through it, and got busy on an issue with work, and haven't picked it back up.
Originally Posted by J-Rod
I was actually looking at this the other day. I took the LxW of the intake port (area=l x w). and calculated the area of a rectangle. Then I was going to "back" into the area of a circle (a = pi X r^2), and come up with "diameter" from that(a / pi = r^2) then (sqrt of r^2 = r) then (r x 2 = D). I was about halfway through it, and got busy on an issue with work, and haven't picked it back up.
Here's my LS6 intake file. How does it compare to yours?
I was wrong. I am running EA Plus 3.2 not Pro. Sorry about that.
Originally Posted by 405HP_Z06
VortechC5, Are you using v3.2 or v3.3? v3.2 was the beta for the update from v2.1D. v3.3a032 is the latest version.
Originally Posted by VortechC5
I was wrong. I am running EA Plus 3.2 not Pro. Sorry about that.
Originally Posted by J-Rod
From this site.
LSX: 396ci plenum volume, 15" tapered runners
LS6: 317ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LS1: 275ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LSX: 396ci plenum volume, 15" tapered runners
LS6: 317ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
LS1: 275ci plenum volume, 10.315" straight runners
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,983
Likes: 13
From: Texas
Originally Posted by 405HP_Z06
J-Rod, Looking back at my notes I have the LS1 plenum volume at 308ci. I got this data point from the book "Chevy LS1/LS6 Performance" by Endres.
LS inlet opening...
D = Runner Diameter (Lsx 3.25x1.06=3.445 Area )
So, now reverse engineer that...