Thinking about learning how to tune my car, where to start?
01-20-2013, 12:41 AM
#1
Thinking about learning how to tune my car, where to start? I have a 2000 Firehawk w/ H/C/I/E. I had the car tuned a year or so ago and I wasn't real happy with the experience. I don't know if it was the tuner or I was expecting too much. I have tried to find other tuners close but after talking to several people that had their cars done there I'm to the point I don't really want to spend the money to take my car somewhere and not know if it's right or not. I do all the work on my car and the few times I have had to pay someone to do something it ended up being wrong and I wasn't happy with it.
I have done a lot of reading in this section and have spent some time on the HP Tuners website. I'm the type of person that wants to know how something works. I have a pretty good comprehension of how EFI works in general but nothing specfic; MAF tables, injector tables, etc.
Where is a good place to start out learning how to tune? I picked up the 'How to tune a LS vehicle' or something like that a year or so ago. I can't remember who wrote it but I think he is a sponsor on here and everyone was really excited when he released the book. I read through it but found myself lost because I didn't fully understand what the author was referring to sometimes.
I have seen people talk about the Greg Banish how to tune DVD. It's expensive and I have no problem dropping the coin on it if it's good.
This section of the board, like any other section, there is good and bad information. The people who actually know what they are doing, people who think they know what they are doing but really don't and the people who repeat **** they read.
I would like to eventually be in the "people who actually know what they are doing" category. Regardless of what type I'm doing, I want to understand it and be good at it.
I'm wanting to do this to learn how to tune my car not anyone else's. The only other car I would want to tune is my friends 95 Z28. Finding someone who knows how to tune LT1's are harder to find than people to tune LS engines.
I have no idea if I would use HP Tuners or EFI Live. It seems I see more people talk about HP Tuners.
If some knowledgeable people could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.
I have done a lot of reading in this section and have spent some time on the HP Tuners website. I'm the type of person that wants to know how something works. I have a pretty good comprehension of how EFI works in general but nothing specfic; MAF tables, injector tables, etc.
Where is a good place to start out learning how to tune? I picked up the 'How to tune a LS vehicle' or something like that a year or so ago. I can't remember who wrote it but I think he is a sponsor on here and everyone was really excited when he released the book. I read through it but found myself lost because I didn't fully understand what the author was referring to sometimes.
I have seen people talk about the Greg Banish how to tune DVD. It's expensive and I have no problem dropping the coin on it if it's good.
This section of the board, like any other section, there is good and bad information. The people who actually know what they are doing, people who think they know what they are doing but really don't and the people who repeat **** they read.
I would like to eventually be in the "people who actually know what they are doing" category. Regardless of what type I'm doing, I want to understand it and be good at it.
I'm wanting to do this to learn how to tune my car not anyone else's. The only other car I would want to tune is my friends 95 Z28. Finding someone who knows how to tune LT1's are harder to find than people to tune LS engines.
I have no idea if I would use HP Tuners or EFI Live. It seems I see more people talk about HP Tuners.
If some knowledgeable people could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.
01-20-2013, 10:50 AM
#2
EFI Live is more in depth compare to HPTuners therefore HPTuners is more user friendly for the newbies , IMO.
Pick you poison of which one you want to invest to learn how to tune your car. Both are good.
I have HPTuners and AFX wideband and the "how to tune EFI cars" book. I started with playing with the HPTuner scanner/AF wideband, doing cruise and idle then move up to WOT tuning. Once you started tuning your car and seeing the difference how your car is acting good/bad it becomes addicting, you'll want to do more changes... little changes at the start mind you. And then it hits you... Why did I pay some one $500 for a tune that it didn't fully work for you.
Before you start though, SAVE the tune you have now and SAVE a STOCK tune. It's recommended to start with a stock tune of your car instead of a tune you have now. A blank canvas to start with per say. HPTuners message board and the veteran tuners helped me a lot. Do a lot of reading, trial and error with your car. Baby steps first.
Pick you poison of which one you want to invest to learn how to tune your car. Both are good.
I have HPTuners and AFX wideband and the "how to tune EFI cars" book. I started with playing with the HPTuner scanner/AF wideband, doing cruise and idle then move up to WOT tuning. Once you started tuning your car and seeing the difference how your car is acting good/bad it becomes addicting, you'll want to do more changes... little changes at the start mind you. And then it hits you... Why did I pay some one $500 for a tune that it didn't fully work for you.
Before you start though, SAVE the tune you have now and SAVE a STOCK tune. It's recommended to start with a stock tune of your car instead of a tune you have now. A blank canvas to start with per say. HPTuners message board and the veteran tuners helped me a lot. Do a lot of reading, trial and error with your car. Baby steps first.
Last edited by bene; 01-20-2013 at 02:53 PM.
01-20-2013, 02:12 PM
#3
If you find a mentor, pick that software.
I don't know how many times I've made "the most inexpensive part is buying the software" comment.
You will spend many dollars on books, DVD's & classroom training if you really want to move forward.
I was worn out from BS tuners & just wanted to know when I was being stroked. I still get stroked....just at a higher level
I don't know how many times I've made "the most inexpensive part is buying the software" comment.
You will spend many dollars on books, DVD's & classroom training if you really want to move forward.
I was worn out from BS tuners & just wanted to know when I was being stroked. I still get stroked....just at a higher level
01-20-2013, 05:11 PM
#4
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Some people can learn from reading books and watching DVDs... Some need to learn from a classroom or mentor setting. If you can find someone who knows what they are doing and they are willing to help you, learning from them can be a good starting point.
There are a lot of experienced tuners on the EFILive forum who are willing to help (can't speak for the HPTuners as I don't use it often). It is true that you have to filter out the BS when reading stuff on the internet - but if you do enough reading and pay attention, you will quickly learn who knows thier **** and who is just full of ****...
There are a lot of experienced tuners on the EFILive forum who are willing to help (can't speak for the HPTuners as I don't use it often). It is true that you have to filter out the BS when reading stuff on the internet - but if you do enough reading and pay attention, you will quickly learn who knows thier **** and who is just full of ****...
01-20-2013, 05:29 PM
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^ Yes. If you can find a mentor, that will help. I learned a lot from books and DVD's even though the latter is pretty expensive. I have Greg Bannish's whole library. Good stuff. I have HPTuners, but grew out of it quickly and looking to get EFILive soon. Just be warned, it's a VERY steep learning curve. If you learn three areas, eight more pop up, and that just keeps happening. One bite at a time though.
Greg was a GM Calibrator and has extensive knowledge in this field.
http://www.calibratedsuccess.com/
I got burnt by a hack tuner, so that "rage" fueled my motivation to learn how to tune. I'm decent, but by no means a professional. HPT or EFIL Will pay for itself the first couple times you use it. That's how I looked at it. I can make as many changes as I want and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg every time. And the way I see it, I've learned almost everything else about the car, there was just one area left. It took me almost a year before i was comfortable making changes to my tune. I pretty much started over with it and on a H/C/102 car that isn't easy.
And the golden rule:
"Just because you CAN change something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD."
Greg was a GM Calibrator and has extensive knowledge in this field.
http://www.calibratedsuccess.com/
I got burnt by a hack tuner, so that "rage" fueled my motivation to learn how to tune. I'm decent, but by no means a professional. HPT or EFIL Will pay for itself the first couple times you use it. That's how I looked at it. I can make as many changes as I want and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg every time. And the way I see it, I've learned almost everything else about the car, there was just one area left. It took me almost a year before i was comfortable making changes to my tune. I pretty much started over with it and on a H/C/102 car that isn't easy.
And the golden rule:
"Just because you CAN change something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD."
Last edited by bayer-z28; 01-20-2013 at 05:47 PM.
01-21-2013, 08:21 PM
#7
TECH Senior Member
Also do this:
download HPTuners and EFLIve software and play with it (it runs in demo mode without the hardware);
visit HPTuners' and EFILive's respective forums and have a read thru the how-to tutorial threads, and dry-run practice the software with what you read.
download HPTuners and EFLIve software and play with it (it runs in demo mode without the hardware);
visit HPTuners' and EFILive's respective forums and have a read thru the how-to tutorial threads, and dry-run practice the software with what you read.
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01-21-2013, 11:45 PM
#9
Has anyone had any experience with thetuningschool.com? They have some sort of learn to tune at home book w/ support and some other things. It seems to be pretty popular on the HPTuners forums. I know Greg Banish has DVD's also. I was wondering if anyone has experience with either or both of these products.
Damn this ****'s gonna get expensive.
Damn this ****'s gonna get expensive.
01-22-2013, 08:08 AM
#10
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Some one told me a long time ago, it is just spark and fuel. It is also a little idle. If you get a wide band O2 sensor and go slow it is not that hard. Make sure to test the changes you make. Don't add to much timing and never go lean.
01-22-2013, 09:31 AM
#11
Some good advice is, Do what yellowtoy and joecar said. Download the software itself. Open a tune from your car via the tune repository, and just read each and every table and its description. A few times. That will let you know really what is available to you. Then think of the car as an old school distributor engine.. There are no secrets. It is just timing and air and fuel, with some limiters. BUT JUST ALOT MORE CONTROL... Once you have read the tables descriptions you will have at least a better understanding on how the computer references other sections and tables..
Then just do small baby steps when you start actually tuning your vehicle. It is best to buy a tune from someone first, then use that as a reference to start from and get an idea of the tables you should be touching for the setup you have...
The forums have every answer out there, you just have to find it as well. If you have a question, someone else has had that same one...
Then just do small baby steps when you start actually tuning your vehicle. It is best to buy a tune from someone first, then use that as a reference to start from and get an idea of the tables you should be touching for the setup you have...
The forums have every answer out there, you just have to find it as well. If you have a question, someone else has had that same one...
01-22-2013, 09:02 PM
#12
At my level a few years ago downloading any demo software would have been a waste of clicks. Presently I'm HPT, I would like to add EFI to mix & have them both.
I like all the material, thetuningschool really helped with the basics to get you going, it's also the most expensive. The classroom with them was very disappointing, the mix was far to extreme from basics to advanced. I signed up for the Beginner Advance combined course.....more beginner students ranging from not being able to turn on the software to which button do I push :-(. You really need to have a good comfort level with the scanner & editor before qualifying or attending anything other than beginner classroom session.
I've Greg's classroom on my radar for the future. I've visited EFI University web site & almost signed up for a back to back course. I could not get a real comfort level with them.
It is a huge commitment & under taking which ever way/ways you choose. It really is another full time job which is difficult from a hobbyist standpoint. It's also never ending ever changing as new methods come forward combined with the new technology.
01-22-2013, 09:31 PM
#13
Some good advice is, Do what yellowtoy and joecar said. Download the software itself. Open a tune from your car via the tune repository, and just read each and every table and its description. A few times. That will let you know really what is available to you. Then think of the car as an old school distributor engine.. There are no secrets. It is just timing and air and fuel, with some limiters. BUT JUST ALOT MORE CONTROL... Once you have read the tables descriptions you will have at least a better understanding on how the computer references other sections and tables..
Then just do small baby steps when you start actually tuning your vehicle. It is best to buy a tune from someone first, then use that as a reference to start from and get an idea of the tables you should be touching for the setup you have...
The forums have every answer out there, you just have to find it as well. If you have a question, someone else has had that same one...
Then just do small baby steps when you start actually tuning your vehicle. It is best to buy a tune from someone first, then use that as a reference to start from and get an idea of the tables you should be touching for the setup you have...
The forums have every answer out there, you just have to find it as well. If you have a question, someone else has had that same one...
Yes it's gonna get expensive! I have the tuning school material, even attended one of their three day classes. Collected some of Greg's book's & DVD.....Dan as well.
At my level a few years ago downloading any demo software would have been a waste of clicks. Presently I'm HPT, I would like to add EFI to mix & have them both.
I like all the material, thetuningschool really helped with the basics to get you going, it's also the most expensive. The classroom with them was very disappointing, the mix was far to extreme from basics to advanced. I signed up for the Beginner Advance combined course.....more beginner students ranging from not being able to turn on the software to which button do I push :-(. You really need to have a good comfort level with the scanner & editor before qualifying or attending anything other than beginner classroom session.
I've Greg's classroom on my radar for the future. I've visited EFI University web site & almost signed up for a back to back course. I could not get a real comfort level with them.
It is a huge commitment & under taking which ever way/ways you choose. It really is another full time job which is difficult from a hobbyist standpoint. It's also never ending ever changing as new methods come forward combined with the new technology.
At my level a few years ago downloading any demo software would have been a waste of clicks. Presently I'm HPT, I would like to add EFI to mix & have them both.
I like all the material, thetuningschool really helped with the basics to get you going, it's also the most expensive. The classroom with them was very disappointing, the mix was far to extreme from basics to advanced. I signed up for the Beginner Advance combined course.....more beginner students ranging from not being able to turn on the software to which button do I push :-(. You really need to have a good comfort level with the scanner & editor before qualifying or attending anything other than beginner classroom session.
I've Greg's classroom on my radar for the future. I've visited EFI University web site & almost signed up for a back to back course. I could not get a real comfort level with them.
It is a huge commitment & under taking which ever way/ways you choose. It really is another full time job which is difficult from a hobbyist standpoint. It's also never ending ever changing as new methods come forward combined with the new technology.
I think once I'm able to wrap my head around the strategies that will help, but I know that will take a while. I really do appreciate everyone's comments and input.
01-24-2013, 06:04 PM
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I'm on day 3 of tuning my car with my plx wideband in speed density OL. It's pretty fun, and irritating at times. the hardest part (for me) is smoothing any VE or spark Table lol. My car is close though, feels a lot better. I'm getting 12.7, 12.4, 13.0 at WOT though, so I'll just keep working on it!
01-27-2013, 01:12 AM
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I am also thinking about buying the software to tune when i go turbo. But with people recommending get a tune as a referance while learning, buying the software, and any literature or dvds, you would be a few hundred dollars away from the holley efi that self tunes off wide bands. I habent worked with either but does hpt or efil offer more than say a holley or other unit.
01-28-2013, 04:17 AM
#16
TECH Senior Member
The factory systems completely manages engine, transmission, and emissions systems, and have various engine/transmission protection modes that kick in when things goes wrong.
The aftermarket systems only manage fuel, spark and maybe transmission, and offer very minimal protection modes (if any).
The aftermarket systems only manage fuel, spark and maybe transmission, and offer very minimal protection modes (if any).
01-28-2013, 04:24 AM
#17
TECH Senior Member
You could buy DVDs/books/courses... or you could read the various materials posted on the respective product's forums.
Either way, prerequisite knowledge is an understanding of how ICE consumes air, fuel and spark (how those interact)... this is how you determine if the DVD/book/course matches your level of knowledge, or if you need to undertake other reading/courses.
Either way, prerequisite knowledge is an understanding of how ICE consumes air, fuel and spark (how those interact)... this is how you determine if the DVD/book/course matches your level of knowledge, or if you need to undertake other reading/courses.
02-01-2013, 06:15 PM
#18
Im new to Hp tuners also I have the dvd's and books with me (night shift) I hope to figure out how to SD+boost tune my car. I have a few files from car that are close to my set up excpt they have 4l60/4l80 transmissions I have a th350. Any tips on the trans portion? I was told to load a file from a 6spd car
02-01-2013, 08:24 PM
#19
You could buy DVDs/books/courses... or you could read the various materials posted on the respective product's forums.
Either way, prerequisite knowledge is an understanding of how ICE consumes air, fuel and spark (how those interact)... this is how you determine if the DVD/book/course matches your level of knowledge, or if you need to undertake other reading/courses.
Either way, prerequisite knowledge is an understanding of how ICE consumes air, fuel and spark (how those interact)... this is how you determine if the DVD/book/course matches your level of knowledge, or if you need to undertake other reading/courses.
I just finished Greg's 'Engine Management Advanced Tuning' book last night. I'm going to start his "Designing and Tuning High Performance Fuel Injection Systems' book tonight. I will probably pick up his DVD when tax time comes around.
02-09-2013, 09:55 PM
#20
I've been reading the 'Designing and Tuning High Performance Fuel Injection Systems' book. I like it. It's more in depth than the other book. It seems mapping the air flow(MAF) and injectors are the most important thing.
I will probably be using 42lb injectors. Before I started reading I thought that would be too big but after doing the math it will put me where I need to be as far as IDC goes.
Where do you get the info on the injectors to input into HP Tuners?
I have a SLP 85 MAF but will probably go with the GM 85 MAF. Is there information out there like there is with injectors?
Please forgive the newb questions.
I will probably be using 42lb injectors. Before I started reading I thought that would be too big but after doing the math it will put me where I need to be as far as IDC goes.
Where do you get the info on the injectors to input into HP Tuners?
I have a SLP 85 MAF but will probably go with the GM 85 MAF. Is there information out there like there is with injectors?
Please forgive the newb questions.
