1998 gauge cluster - Holley Dominator
10-08-2015, 05:46 PM
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1998 gauge cluster - Holley Dominator Hello, I've been attempting some research regarding whether or not the Holley, or OE sensors can output to the gauge cluster.. or at least what can and cannot. I understand the temp sensor on the 98s already is a direct feed, but thats it; according to the diagrams I've been able to track down through Mitchell it would seem that everything else goes through the PCM.
Anyone have any tips or tricks on getting this to work with the rest of the cluster? Not looking to have any of the dumby lights working, just the gauges at this point.
Anyone have any tips or tricks on getting this to work with the rest of the cluster? Not looking to have any of the dumby lights working, just the gauges at this point.
Last edited by Silvrfsh; 10-08-2015 at 10:33 PM.
10-10-2015, 07:25 PM
#3
From everything I have read none of the gauges will work if you are only using the Holley ecu, If you wanted to go thru the trouble of keeping the stock ecu and Holley you should be able to get temp and oil pressure/volts but no tach or speed.
I'm about to do a swap in an S-10 using the Dominator and plan on using the Holley Dash and a tablet for all my gauges.
I'm about to do a swap in an S-10 using the Dominator and plan on using the Holley Dash and a tablet for all my gauges.
10-10-2015, 10:01 PM
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From everything I have read none of the gauges will work if you are only using the Holley ecu, If you wanted to go thru the trouble of keeping the stock ecu and Holley you should be able to get temp and oil pressure/volts but no tach or speed.
I'm about to do a swap in an S-10 using the Dominator and plan on using the Holley Dash and a tablet for all my gauges.
I'm about to do a swap in an S-10 using the Dominator and plan on using the Holley Dash and a tablet for all my gauges.
I keep finding single posts specifically about the 98 cluster.. But then looking into the 99+ ecm swap I don't see how it could be all serial data or all analoge
10-11-2015, 11:27 AM
#5
98 cluster is all analog
99+ is all serial data...except for oil presssure which is a direct connection to a single wire sensor.
however.. the holley does not output anything for gauges other than a tach output(HP and Dominator) and speedo output(dominator only)
the 98 cluster would need its own temperature sender, its own oil pressure sender, its own water temperature sensor.
the Holley will get its own sensors as well...
with any sensor... if it uses a 0-5v signal (3 wire) you can split the signal to multiple devices.
if it uses a resistance type or a voltage drop type (2 wire or 1 wire)..it cannot be shared or split to multiple devices..they must remain connected to only one place
99+ is all serial data...except for oil presssure which is a direct connection to a single wire sensor.
however.. the holley does not output anything for gauges other than a tach output(HP and Dominator) and speedo output(dominator only)
the 98 cluster would need its own temperature sender, its own oil pressure sender, its own water temperature sensor.
the Holley will get its own sensors as well...
with any sensor... if it uses a 0-5v signal (3 wire) you can split the signal to multiple devices.
if it uses a resistance type or a voltage drop type (2 wire or 1 wire)..it cannot be shared or split to multiple devices..they must remain connected to only one place
10-11-2015, 03:47 PM
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98 cluster is all analog
99+ is all serial data...except for oil presssure which is a direct connection to a single wire sensor.
however.. the holley does not output anything for gauges other than a tach output(HP and Dominator) and speedo output(dominator only)
the 98 cluster would need its own temperature sender, its own oil pressure sender, its own water temperature sensor.
the Holley will get its own sensors as well...
with any sensor... if it uses a 0-5v signal (3 wire) you can split the signal to multiple devices.
if it uses a resistance type or a voltage drop type (2 wire or 1 wire)..it cannot be shared or split to multiple devices..they must remain connected to only one place
99+ is all serial data...except for oil presssure which is a direct connection to a single wire sensor.
however.. the holley does not output anything for gauges other than a tach output(HP and Dominator) and speedo output(dominator only)
the 98 cluster would need its own temperature sender, its own oil pressure sender, its own water temperature sensor.
the Holley will get its own sensors as well...
with any sensor... if it uses a 0-5v signal (3 wire) you can split the signal to multiple devices.
if it uses a resistance type or a voltage drop type (2 wire or 1 wire)..it cannot be shared or split to multiple devices..they must remain connected to only one place
So for the fuel sender can I take the wire to the PCM and wire it directly to the cluster, reason for my concern is I swear I've read that the PCM does change the output to the cluster and its not just raw ohms readings from the tank... which is why it doesn't fluctuate wildly if you brake/accelerate hard
Voltage is integrated to the cluster already and just needs power to the cluster to work, if I keep the stock 98 oil pressure sender and route to wire to the cluster it should read as well, and the 3 wire temp sensor should already be wired that way on the 98s, just have the outer 2 wires go to the dominator and the 3rd wire go to the cluster upon removal of the stock harness.
I need to send a wire from the dominator thru the cluster to the alternator so the 'check gauges' light doesn't come on right?
Then that leaves vehicle speed to be wired to the dominator and then wire the output to the cluster and tach will come off the OE sensors to the dominator and then tach out to the cluster...
Basically temp, cam, crank, and IAT, TPS will be the original sensors and then the rest will be the fancy holley stuff.
Does this all sound accurate?
Last edited by Silvrfsh; 10-11-2015 at 04:06 PM.
10-11-2015, 04:14 PM
#7
So for the fuel sender can I take the wire to the PCM and wire it directly to the cluster?
Voltage is integrated to the cluster already and just needs power to the cluster to work, if I keep the stock 98 oil pressure sender and route to wire to the cluster it should read as well, and the 3 wire temp sensor should already be wired that way on the 98s, just have the outer 2 wires go to the dominator and the 3rd wire go to the cluster upon removal of the stock harness.
I need to send a wire from the dominator thru the cluster to the alternator so the 'check gauges' light doesn't come on right?
Then that leaves vehicle speed to be wired to the dominator and then wire the output to the cluster and tach will come off the OE sensors to the dominator and then tach out to the cluster...
Basically temp, cam, crank, and IAT will be the original sensors and then the rest will be the fancy holley stuff.
Does this all sound accurate?
Voltage is integrated to the cluster already and just needs power to the cluster to work, if I keep the stock 98 oil pressure sender and route to wire to the cluster it should read as well, and the 3 wire temp sensor should already be wired that way on the 98s, just have the outer 2 wires go to the dominator and the 3rd wire go to the cluster upon removal of the stock harness.
I need to send a wire from the dominator thru the cluster to the alternator so the 'check gauges' light doesn't come on right?
Then that leaves vehicle speed to be wired to the dominator and then wire the output to the cluster and tach will come off the OE sensors to the dominator and then tach out to the cluster...
Basically temp, cam, crank, and IAT will be the original sensors and then the rest will be the fancy holley stuff.
Does this all sound accurate?
the 98's used a 3 wire temperature sensor...but it is really 2 separate 2 wire sensors crammed into one housing...
so it is the one exception of splitting signal for a thermistor based sensor because its not really splitting a signal...its 2 independent signals..LOL
I do not know the calibration data for that sensor...but I'm sure its available somewhere in the internet.
and yes...
Cam, Crank, IAT, and one wire of the Coolant temp...will all be factory sensors connected to the Holley
oil pressure is optional as well as fuel pressure...but I highly recommend you install them.
the vss sensor will go into the Holley
you will need to add the Transmission ICF to the tune (in the main menu - toolbox - Add individual config)
if you get the Holley trans Harness it comes all pre-wired..all you have to do is plug it in and set it up properly in the software.(tire size, gears, etc...)
the speedo output will need to be setup as 4000 pulses per mile for the 98 cluster If I remember correct
also, the Holley does not supply any kind of signal for an alternator
you will either need to add a light bulb, a resistor, or convert to a one wire(self exciting) Alternator
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10-11-2015, 04:35 PM
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yes...the Fuel Level sender will connect directly to the gauge cluster
the 98's used a 3 wire temperature sensor...but it is really 2 separate 2 wire sensors crammed into one housing...
so it is the one exception of splitting signal for a thermistor based sensor because its not really splitting a signal...its 2 independent signals..LOL
I do not know the calibration data for that sensor...but I'm sure its available somewhere in the internet.
and yes...
Cam, Crank, IAT, and one wire of the Coolant temp...will all be factory sensors connected to the Holley
oil pressure is optional as well as fuel pressure...but I highly recommend you install them.
the vss sensor will go into the Holley
you will need to add the Transmission ICF to the tune (in the main menu - toolbox - Add individual config)
if you get the Holley trans Harness it comes all pre-wired..all you have to do is plug it in and set it up properly in the software.(tire size, gears, etc...)
the speedo output will need to be setup as 4000 pulses per mile for the 98 cluster If I remember correct
also, the Holley does not supply any kind of signal for an alternator
you will either need to add a light bulb, a resistor, or convert to a one wire(self exciting) Alternator
the 98's used a 3 wire temperature sensor...but it is really 2 separate 2 wire sensors crammed into one housing...
so it is the one exception of splitting signal for a thermistor based sensor because its not really splitting a signal...its 2 independent signals..LOL
I do not know the calibration data for that sensor...but I'm sure its available somewhere in the internet.
and yes...
Cam, Crank, IAT, and one wire of the Coolant temp...will all be factory sensors connected to the Holley
oil pressure is optional as well as fuel pressure...but I highly recommend you install them.
the vss sensor will go into the Holley
you will need to add the Transmission ICF to the tune (in the main menu - toolbox - Add individual config)
if you get the Holley trans Harness it comes all pre-wired..all you have to do is plug it in and set it up properly in the software.(tire size, gears, etc...)
the speedo output will need to be setup as 4000 pulses per mile for the 98 cluster If I remember correct
also, the Holley does not supply any kind of signal for an alternator
you will either need to add a light bulb, a resistor, or convert to a one wire(self exciting) Alternator
LS fbodies just had the single exciter wire anyway, nothing too complicated. I just want to be able to entirely eliminate the stock computer.
I didn't order the trans harness because I'm not running a 4lx0e trans, I can program the J2a harness to read the VSS or do I need to utilize the 'trans' plugs on the end of the dominator for the speed input?
Last edited by Silvrfsh; 10-11-2015 at 04:46 PM.
10-11-2015, 04:47 PM
#9
you will need a Resistor or a light bulb on the wire going to the Alternator to make it work...or you will need to switch to a one wire alternator... those are your choices
also... if you do want to try to just send 12v to the alternator exciter wire...you must go thru a relay..
you cannot come directly off of the Holley and go straight to the alternator. IT MUST HAVE A RELAY
you will need to add the trans ICF, and use the pins on connector J4 for the VSS input to be able to use the speedo output
J4 - pin 18 Vss Signal
J4 - Pin 14 Vss Ground
the speedo output can come from any pin that can output a pwm signal (it does not matter which connector its on)
this is what I do since I have a Glide and a Driveshaft collar
also... if you do want to try to just send 12v to the alternator exciter wire...you must go thru a relay..
you cannot come directly off of the Holley and go straight to the alternator. IT MUST HAVE A RELAY
you will need to add the trans ICF, and use the pins on connector J4 for the VSS input to be able to use the speedo output
J4 - pin 18 Vss Signal
J4 - Pin 14 Vss Ground
the speedo output can come from any pin that can output a pwm signal (it does not matter which connector its on)
this is what I do since I have a Glide and a Driveshaft collar
10-11-2015, 05:16 PM
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you will need a Resistor or a light bulb on the wire going to the Alternator to make it work...or you will need to switch to a one wire alternator... those are your choices
also... if you do want to try to just send 12v to the alternator exciter wire...you must go thru a relay..
you cannot come directly off of the Holley and go straight to the alternator. IT MUST HAVE A RELAY
you will need to add the trans ICF, and use the pins on connector J4 for the VSS input to be able to use the speedo output
J4 - pin 18 Vss Signal
J4 - Pin 14 Vss Ground
the speedo output can come from any pin that can output a pwm signal (it does not matter which connector its on)
this is what I do since I have a Glide and a Driveshaft collar
also... if you do want to try to just send 12v to the alternator exciter wire...you must go thru a relay..
you cannot come directly off of the Holley and go straight to the alternator. IT MUST HAVE A RELAY
you will need to add the trans ICF, and use the pins on connector J4 for the VSS input to be able to use the speedo output
J4 - pin 18 Vss Signal
J4 - Pin 14 Vss Ground
the speedo output can come from any pin that can output a pwm signal (it does not matter which connector its on)
this is what I do since I have a Glide and a Driveshaft collar
According to this guy over on the holley forum, it seems like you might be able to get away without using the J4 harness? Any thoughts?
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ith-Holley-EFI
Last edited by Silvrfsh; 10-11-2015 at 10:07 PM.
10-17-2015, 12:39 PM
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Reason I talk about the alternator is that this guy on post #423(https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...l#post18815486) discusses it, I assume just provide a high side signal non-PWM to signal it on, above 250 or 500rpm like he did.
LS fbodies just had the single exciter wire anyway, nothing too complicated. I just want to be able to entirely eliminate the stock computer.
I didn't order the trans harness because I'm not running a 4lx0e trans, I can program the J2a harness to read the VSS or do I need to utilize the 'trans' plugs on the end of the dominator for the speed input?
LS fbodies just had the single exciter wire anyway, nothing too complicated. I just want to be able to entirely eliminate the stock computer.
I didn't order the trans harness because I'm not running a 4lx0e trans, I can program the J2a harness to read the VSS or do I need to utilize the 'trans' plugs on the end of the dominator for the speed input?
To the OP, you should be able to completely remove the stock ECU and still have your gauges working. It'll just take time and creativity.
Andrew
Last edited by Project GatTagO; 10-17-2015 at 12:45 PM.
10-17-2015, 12:43 PM
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So dominator to a relay, to alternator? Or do I need to add a resistor post relay?
According to this guy over on the holley forum, it seems like you might be able to get away without using the J4 harness? Any thoughts?
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ith-Holley-EFI
According to this guy over on the holley forum, it seems like you might be able to get away without using the J4 harness? Any thoughts?
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ith-Holley-EFI
Andrew
10-17-2015, 09:50 PM
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As noted in the link, I wired the L terminal of the alternator to the Dominator, with a resister wire, no relay, no issues.You can use a relay if it will make you feel better, but you still need a resistor. The stock ECU did not use a relay so I see no reason why you need to use one. A relay is only needed if powering a solenoid. They tend to have flyback current that can fry the ECU. This is why my line lock and 2-step use a relay to isolate the Dominator.
To the OP, you should be able to completely remove the stock ECU and still have your gauges working. It'll just take time and creativity.
Andrew
To the OP, you should be able to completely remove the stock ECU and still have your gauges working. It'll just take time and creativity.
Andrew
What resistance value do I need to wire inline to the alternator turn on then?
10-17-2015, 10:24 PM
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I just used this:
https://holley.com/products/accessor.../parts/197-400
Andrew
10-18-2015, 12:58 PM
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From previous posts, I have read 470ohms.
I just used this:
https://holley.com/products/accessor.../parts/197-400
Andrew
I just used this:
https://holley.com/products/accessor.../parts/197-400
Andrew
Oh damn! Thats awesome, thanks for that. Looks like I'll throw some more stuff on the the 'need to order' list.
"
But didn't you post in the Holley forum that you used the J2a instead of the J4? ... copied from the Holley Forum
"
Update: I had a 558-401 harness, so I installed the second wideband wiring. Along with that, I moved the pins from the J1A connector to the J2A connector, and now I have VSS!
One thing to note is that if you are trying to read the VSS signal using the laptop software, you must configure the gauge to get a reading from the right input. Once I did that, I was able to see speed on the laptop software. Also, when using the new Digital Dash, the gauge must also be configured to display the proper input. Once that is done, the MPH will be displayed on the dash.
Andrew
One thing to note is that if you are trying to read the VSS signal using the laptop software, you must configure the gauge to get a reading from the right input. Once I did that, I was able to see speed on the laptop software. Also, when using the new Digital Dash, the gauge must also be configured to display the proper input. Once that is done, the MPH will be displayed on the dash.
Andrew
Last edited by Silvrfsh; 10-18-2015 at 01:06 PM.
10-19-2015, 12:56 PM
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Sorry for the confusion. Whatever I said on the Holley forum is accurate. I initially had the speedo going to the J1 connector, but none of those pins can be configured as S inputs. I already had the J2 harness, which also added a second wideband so I installed it. But because I already had the wires from the VSS going to the J1 connector, I simply moved the pin from J1 to J2. Hope that makes sense.
Andrew
Andrew
11-03-2015, 11:19 PM
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yes...the Fuel Level sender will connect directly to the gauge cluster
the 98's used a 3 wire temperature sensor...but it is really 2 separate 2 wire sensors crammed into one housing...
so it is the one exception of splitting signal for a thermistor based sensor because its not really splitting a signal...its 2 independent signals..LOL
I do not know the calibration data for that sensor...but I'm sure its available somewhere in the internet.
and yes...
Cam, Crank, IAT, and one wire of the Coolant temp...will all be factory sensors connected to the Holley
oil pressure is optional as well as fuel pressure...but I highly recommend you install them.
the vss sensor will go into the Holley
you will need to add the Transmission ICF to the tune (in the main menu - toolbox - Add individual config)
if you get the Holley trans Harness it comes all pre-wired..all you have to do is plug it in and set it up properly in the software.(tire size, gears, etc...)
the speedo output will need to be setup as 4000 pulses per mile for the 98 cluster If I remember correct
also, the Holley does not supply any kind of signal for an alternator
you will either need to add a light bulb, a resistor, or convert to a one wire(self exciting) Alternator
the 98's used a 3 wire temperature sensor...but it is really 2 separate 2 wire sensors crammed into one housing...
so it is the one exception of splitting signal for a thermistor based sensor because its not really splitting a signal...its 2 independent signals..LOL
I do not know the calibration data for that sensor...but I'm sure its available somewhere in the internet.
and yes...
Cam, Crank, IAT, and one wire of the Coolant temp...will all be factory sensors connected to the Holley
oil pressure is optional as well as fuel pressure...but I highly recommend you install them.
the vss sensor will go into the Holley
you will need to add the Transmission ICF to the tune (in the main menu - toolbox - Add individual config)
if you get the Holley trans Harness it comes all pre-wired..all you have to do is plug it in and set it up properly in the software.(tire size, gears, etc...)
the speedo output will need to be setup as 4000 pulses per mile for the 98 cluster If I remember correct
also, the Holley does not supply any kind of signal for an alternator
you will either need to add a light bulb, a resistor, or convert to a one wire(self exciting) Alternator
So according to this pin out :http://www.ls2.com/boggs/torques/98pinpcm.htm
I should be able to solder the Red 36 to the blue 10 if I leave the stock body harness in place to get the fuel gauge working
11-11-2015, 03:28 PM
#20
So according to this pin out :http://www.ls2.com/boggs/torques/98pinpcm.htm
I should be able to solder the Red 36 to the blue 10 if I leave the stock body harness in place to get the fuel gauge working
I should be able to solder the Red 36 to the blue 10 if I leave the stock body harness in place to get the fuel gauge working
I had to enable PWM and edit the tables in my 411 PCM when I changed my PCM from 98 to 2002 for the fuel gauge to work properly.
The gauge on the 98 cluster responds to a PWM signal generated by the PCM AFAIK.